Re: Before and after death...how's that?
Hmm. I thought I'd already replied to this. Perhaps I dreamt it.
Knowledge will not in or of itself lead to enlightenment. But it does depend on what you mean by knowledge. Most people mean the provisional and contingent knowledge that comes from science and the like. That sort of knowledge is metaphysically useless, and tells us nothing important about reality, being trivia about Plato's cave.
However if you mean knowledge in the sense of what one can really and truly know then that's different. This sort of knowledge can lead to wisdom, since it is certain.
This is why experience is so important to knowledge, since experience is the only route to certain knowledge. (I'll expand if you want, but it's the standard conclusion of philsophers, east and west).
I suspect that it is said that wisdom is liberty because wisdom is understanding the truth, and when you know the truth you know that you cannot be imprisoned. That's about as far as I'd want to go with that one.
Cheers
Canute
Hmm. I thought I'd already replied to this. Perhaps I dreamt it.
Perhaps. But some claim to know what is coming.Originally posted by P. M. Thorne
CANUTE:
“So! Are we coming to the end, -or is it really just a beginning? Regardless of one’s perception, we are all looking toward what is virtually an unknown as we think about that which is ahead of us. Even those of us who believe we do NOT truly die, do, after all face a new experience, -and wonder?
I suspect you don't agree, because you see God as an objective and external entity, and good and evil as arising from Him. This is not the Buddhist view.I ASSUME, IF I MAY BE SO RISKY, THAT I AGREE WITH YOU, THOUGH I CANNOT KNOW FOR SURE HOW FAR YOU ARE TAKING each element of that TRIO (of good, evil and God).
See above.Hmm. I would disagree that the two could never be compatible, but no, not as they are right now, but my point was that they COULD come together. Think about it some more.
Well, it is not a philosophy or a theory or magic. But it not a spell either.In my opinion, Sir, you make Buddhism sound like it is some kind of spell, more that a philosophy or theory, magic perhaps.
The practice includes these things, but they are a means, not an end.I think of it more as meditation, discipline and focus.
I don't understand how you reach this conclusion. Think of the colour 'red'. Could you understand it in the absence of an experience of it?YOU WROTE: Don't forget that Buddhism is a practice, and cannot be understood from a book in the absence of the experiences that come from that practice.
OH MY GOODNESS! I AM NOT SURE I CAN BE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS. BUDDHISM SOUNDS A BIT LIKE SCIENTOLOGY, OR SOME CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS, THAT HOLD AN OPINION THAT YOU MUST TAKE A CULT-LIKE APPROACH. NOW, DO NOT GET ALL UPSET, I COULD VERY WELL BE IN A STATE OF BEING AFFECTED BY EXPERIENCES OF THE PAST HERE! OR, PERHAPS YOU COULD WORD IT DIFFERENTLY, YOUR KINDNESS, BECAUSE I TEND TO BE INTELLECTUALLY CLAUSTROPHOBIC. (DEAD SERIOUS HERE!)
What mumbo jumbo was that? I've been entirely consistent in what I have said (I hope). My comment here simply supports the previous one. All I've said is that an understanding of Buddhism (or rather, a Buddhist understanding of reality), doesn't come out of a book.BUT THEN, YOU WROTE: (Although it can be understood without the books, after all the Buddha did it).
H O W R E A L I S T I C O F Y O U. SERIOUSLY! NOW, HOW COULD THE SAME MAN MAKE SUCH A STATEMENT AFTER THE MUMBO JUMBO STATEMENT JUST BEFORE. I REALLY LIKE THIS ONE. IT IS RIGHT IN MY HEART THAT GOD IS OUR SOURCE AND WE CAN DO ANYTHING. ‘SPLAIN!
Ok, well just a humble (ish) opinion.“KNOWLEDGE,” DURANT WROTE, “IS POWER, BUT WISDOM IS LIBERTY.” I KNOW BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT KNOWLEDGE IS THE MOST POWERFUL THING ONE CAN POSSESS, AND I SURELY SEEK ENLIGHTENMENT, WHICH CAN LEAD TO WISDOM. WHAT I AM STILL WORKING ON IS “WISDOM IS LIBERTY.” DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS? IF SO, WILL YOU SHARE? I DO NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT MORE; REGARDLESS, I WOULD STILL LIKE TO KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS.
Knowledge will not in or of itself lead to enlightenment. But it does depend on what you mean by knowledge. Most people mean the provisional and contingent knowledge that comes from science and the like. That sort of knowledge is metaphysically useless, and tells us nothing important about reality, being trivia about Plato's cave.
However if you mean knowledge in the sense of what one can really and truly know then that's different. This sort of knowledge can lead to wisdom, since it is certain.
This is why experience is so important to knowledge, since experience is the only route to certain knowledge. (I'll expand if you want, but it's the standard conclusion of philsophers, east and west).
I suspect that it is said that wisdom is liberty because wisdom is understanding the truth, and when you know the truth you know that you cannot be imprisoned. That's about as far as I'd want to go with that one.
Completely agree.THERE IS KNOWLEDGE IN THE UNEDUCATED THAT IS SOMETIMES MORE USEFUL THAT WHAT IS LEARNED IN COLLEGE. EVERY STATEMENT SEEMS TO BE CIRCUMSTATIAL.
Cheers
Canute