Why do atheists hate Jesus?

John J. Bannan:

Without relegion, you've got the law of the jungle - which isn't going to be to kind to atheists.

Why do you assume that?

What is the basis of a moral judgment not based on religion? How do you know right from wrong?

Instinct and social education. Which is how religious people know, too.

Evolution says survival of the fitest. Does that mean it's right for me to kill someone and take their property - simply because I can?

No. That is what is called "social Darwinism", a perversion of the idea of evolution to advocate a dog-eat-dog world.

Our modern morality is not solely based in biological evolution.
 
A better question would be...why do Christians hate Jesus.

They keep crucifying him every sunday, week after week, in the beilef that his death is a blood sacrifice that will release them from responsibility for themselves.

When in fact, Jesus himself said no such thing, and made it clear he did not want to be executed.
 
Everything I've heard and believe about Jesus (I don't believe he was the son of god, born of virgin mother, the miracles and rising from the dead etc)
is positive, that he was a peaceful, tolerant, generous, charitable humanist who happened to have strong religious convictions. He helped a lot of people.
It is for that reason that my beliefs about Jesus, (along with a number of other prominent humanitarians including Ghandi and mother Teresa) continue to be a source of inspiration for me. Jesus was into peace and helping people!
Thing is, Jesus was a liberal. The other side of Christianity is one embraced by the religious, and often conservative, narrow minded sheeple who have bought into Christianity's lies - all of the intolerant, superstitious crap.

Jesus's teachings were wonderfully positive and will continue to be for many people. For how long have - and for how much longer will people continue to ignore his idealism and virtue? A perfect example is GWB and his neocon warmonger friends. If you ask A LOT of Christians, even in America, they will tell you that people like that aren't "Christians" at all.
The phrase "What would Jesus do?" was created for a reason, and is still a phrase that even I - an adamant secular humanist - considers.
So I don't hate Jesus at all. I just think he was a wonderfully benevolent and moral person, (and all the religious "god" stuff is crap and irrelevant).
If the Jesus I picture when I think of that name were around today;
A: It wouldn't really bother him that I rejected his (and all) religious superstition, and if it upset him, he certainly wouldn't get angry about it.
B: I'm quite sure he'd approve of my course of study and planned career path for the next few years.

Why do you assume atheists hate Jesus?
 
Without relegion, you've got the law of the jungle - which isn't going to be to kind to atheists.

What is the basis of a moral judgment not based on religion? How do you know right from wrong?

Evolution says survival of the fitest. Does that mean it's right for me to kill someone and take their property - simply because I can?



Do you religious folk really believe that if there wasn't some powerful "authority" to instruct you, and others, how to behave morally, that nobody would?
That's a pretty lame sense of morality and ethics you've got there, not only has someone else told you what/whatnot to do but if you don't follow it you won't get into heaven/paradise and may go to hell instead.

Isn't that just selfish?
If you don't eat your vegetables and be polite at the dinner you'll be smacked and won't get any desert? What about eating your dinner and being polite out of respect for other people at the table?

You just don't get it do you? What about not stealing/raping/killing because of the way it would hurt others?

You know I'd love it if there was an all powerful benevolent, loving being - who rewarded good people in the afterlife and punished really bad people in eternal hell-fire. I genuinely think that such a situation would be beneficial to humankind and would make me sleep a lot better at night. That doesn't make it true.

I'd love it if the easter bunny and santa had bought me gifts that were EXTRA gifts ON TOP of the gifts my parents gave me. But you know what? That doesn't happen. Why don't impoverished children - even Christian children who believe in Santa - get the presents they want for Christmas - even if they are really good all year? Because there's no Santa.
 
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Do you really think the Golden Rule is engrained in mankind, such that atheists don't need religion to make them better people? A version of the Golden Rule may be engrained in our culture, but our culture is Christian. So where do you think it came from? The Romans were pagans, they didn't follow the Golden Rule, and they threw people to the lions, burned them like torches, and had Gladiators fight to the death.
 
Do you really think the Golden Rule is engrained in mankind, such that atheists don't need religion to make them better people? A version of the Golden Rule may be engrained in our culture, but our culture is Christian. So where do you think it came from? The Romans were pagans, they didn't follow the Golden Rule, and they threw people to the lions, burned them like torches, and had Gladiators fight to the death.

If you really believe what you're saying and the only reason you're not out killing people for fun is that you think god will punish you for it, then you're a deeply sick person. You don't have to believe in god to think that people should be treated with respect and kindness, or that people should be good to each other.

In fact, the most atheistic countries tend to have the lowest crime rates. The USA's high rate of crime and theism fits right into this trend.
 
I agree.

As for the Romans, that was thousands of years ago. Far more recently than that, "witches" were burnt at the stake by Christians, in front of people in villages. If you think the most advanced civilisation today is the US, I beg to differ. There was a time when religion ruled - it was called the "dark ages".
 
Far more recently than that, "witches" were burnt at the stake by Christians, in front of people in villages.
Indeed. John J. Bannan thinks that his religion is the source of our modern-day morality, even though for the first 80% of his religion's history it was considered acceptable to set people on fire. In fact, that sort of thing only ended when the secular governments in various European countries began outlawing it. It's not like the religious people changed their mind or lost interest.
If you think the most advanced civilisation today is the US, I beg to differ. There was a time when religion ruled - it was called the "dark ages".
There are still various countries around the world that are ruled by religion. For some reason they tend to be horrible places that no sane person would want to live.
 
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Christian ethics are written all over all laws. In fact, I can't think of single State where it was every legal to cut off someone's hands for stealing.
 
Christian ethics are written all over all laws. In fact, I can't think of single State where it was every legal to cut off someone's hands for stealing.
The ancient Greeks didn't cut people's heads off for stealing. I suppose they must have been Christian, right? :rolleyes:

John, if you want to propose that the USA's Christian values make them merciful, how do you explain the fact that the USA still has a death penalty at all? Especially since countries with atheism rates in the 70%-80% range don't have the death penalty?

You are trying to claim that religion encourages good morals and mercy, when in fact the more atheistic countries in the world have lower crime and are more merciful to the people who commit crimes! Sorry, I can see why your idea seems reasonable to you, but it just doesn't fit with the facts.
 
The Romans were pagans, they didn't follow the Golden Rule, and they threw people to the lions, burned them like torches, and had Gladiators fight to the death.
How are you defining pagan? The Romans had several gods and were religious, along with many other cultures. So that blows your theory straight out the water.
As for Christian culture I suggest a short, sharp, history lesson as you've already shown a lack of knowledge in this area.
Do the words Spanish Inquisition ring any bells?
Witch hunts?
What about more general laws involving punishments such as branding? Torture? Stoning? Public execution was a much favoured pastime in christian cultures too.
So as you can see we have similarities between throwing people to the lions for entertainment and cutting their heads off in a public display.
Seeing as these don't occur anymore then morals involving our christian culture(including laws and punishment) must have changed over time. So how are they ingrained in any way?
 
Do you really think the Golden Rule is engrained in mankind, such that atheists don't need religion to make them better people? A version of the Golden Rule may be engrained in our culture, but our culture is Christian. So where do you think it came from? The Romans were pagans, they didn't follow the Golden Rule, and they threw people to the lions, burned them like torches, and had Gladiators fight to the death.

Plenty of Christians burned people like torches. Remember the Inquisition?
 
Atheists sure seem to like to make fun of God and Christians. Is there an atheists inferiority complex? You would think it was the other way around. If you are so sure God doesn't exist, then why all the bitterness?
John - you are an Atheist to many Gods and Godesses. I think I just read a thread by you criticizing another beleif system.

It obviously really depends on the person.

Michael
 
Do you really think the Golden Rule is engrained in mankind, such that atheists don't need religion to make them better people? A version of the Golden Rule may be engrained in our culture, but our culture is Christian. So where do you think it came from? The Romans were pagans, they didn't follow the Golden Rule, and they threw people to the lions, burned them like torches, and had Gladiators fight to the death.

Have you never heard of the Spanish Inquisition? The actions of the Conquistadors in the Americas? Salem Witch Trials? The 'reeducation' of Native Americans?
None of these Christians were following the Golden Rule and they were doing it on a large scale.
 
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M*W: John, you're a bigot. Atheists don't need to go anywhere to "remind them to be good people." In fact, we don't need reminding. We have chosen to live a lifestyle that includes being good and kind in everything we do. Just how many atheists do you think you'll find in prisons? .


what deluded you into this way of thinking? your standpoint is completely off the mark here. athiests need reminding to be good people just as much as everybody else. just because somebody is an athiest it does not make them a good person,

just because somebody is an atheist it does not mean they have chosen to be good and kind where did you get this from?. if you dont believe in god it doesent make you automaticaly good and kind thats insane to believe that,


and the last statement is absurd where on earth did you get the stats for that? i know plenty of atheists who are in prison, i myself was in prison while i was an atheist, you will find that here in england there are thousands and thousands of atheists and thousands are also in jail,


peace.
 
and the last statement is absurd where on earth did you get the stats for that? i know plenty of atheists who are in prison, i myself was in prison while i was an atheist, you will find that here in england there are thousands and thousands of atheists and thousands are also in jail,
As has already been pointed out, there is a strong correlation between atheism and low crime rates in countries all across the world. Just look up atheism rates and crime rates by country and compare them yourself if you don't believe it.
 
You know I'd love it if there was an all powerful benevolent, loving being - who rewarded good people in the afterlife and punished really bad people in eternal hell-fire. I genuinely think that such a situation would be beneficial to humankind and would make me sleep a lot better at night. That doesn't make it true.


God (as per the Bible) is not merely an "all powerful benevolent, loving being" as many coffeehouse philosophers like to speculate. God's attributes also include holiness, hatred, justice, grace, goodness, wrath, mercy, etc. One must obtain a grasp of the attributes of God before one can even begin to speculate about why He does this or that.

And, according to the Bible, God does not "reward ... good people in the afterlife and punish.. really bad people in eternal hell-fire." One's "goodness" does not enter into the algorithm. One burns like a torch for eternity for rejecting Jesus Christ. The notion of "good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell" is a common thread found in many false religious systems where people try to justify themselves through their "good works."

 
Everything I've heard and believe about Jesus (I don't believe he was the son of god, born of virgin mother, the miracles and rising from the dead etc)
is positive, that he was a peaceful, tolerant, generous, charitable humanist who happened to have strong religious convictions. He helped a lot of people.
It is for that reason that my beliefs about Jesus, (along with a number of other prominent humanitarians including Ghandi and mother Teresa) continue to be a source of inspiration for me. Jesus was into peace and helping people!
Thing is, Jesus was a liberal. The other side of Christianity is one embraced by the religious, and often conservative, narrow minded sheeple who have bought into Christianity's lies - all of the intolerant, superstitious crap.

Jesus's teachings were wonderfully positive and will continue to be for many people. For how long have - and for how much longer will people continue to ignore his idealism and virtue? A perfect example is GWB and his neocon warmonger friends. If you ask A LOT of Christians, even in America, they will tell you that people like that aren't "Christians" at all.
The phrase "What would Jesus do?" was created for a reason, and is still a phrase that even I - an adamant secular humanist - considers.
So I don't hate Jesus at all. I just think he was a wonderfully benevolent and moral person, (and all the religious "god" stuff is crap and irrelevant).
If the Jesus I picture when I think of that name were around today;
A: It wouldn't really bother him that I rejected his (and all) religious superstition, and if it upset him, he certainly wouldn't get angry about it.
B: I'm quite sure he'd approve of my course of study and planned career path for the next few years.

Why do you assume atheists hate Jesus?

As far as hating Jesus, many are confused as to who they really hate. This is just as bad as the fringe Christian groups that get all the media attention yet account for a minuscule percentage of Christians. That was a good post because not many people realize that not all those who believe in Jesus and call themselves Christians are what we consider conservative.

As has already been pointed out, there is a strong correlation between atheism and low crime rates in countries all across the world. Just look up atheism rates and crime rates by country and compare them yourself if you don't believe it.

That may sound good on the surface but there is much more to it than that. You have to know that those suffering are certainly more religious and no one suffers like the poor and along with poverty comes crime and substance abuse but Jesus, assuming an awareness of this entity, reveals himself to those who suffer...sometimes he keeps these people going, picks them literally off the ground and gives them hope. This is not needed where everything is great...hope is all that they have in the world and these people feel his presence, and often times much much more. AFAIK there is nothing good about suffering but too many people want to deny it's existence also, sometimes you learn more in a few seconds than you ever could in a whole lifetime. I will never tell anyone what or who to believe in but given the choice between faith and criminal behavior then faith will set you free and crime will put the weight of a heavy chain around your soul.

I wish i could say more save that long painful road many have to walk, weather by choice or circumstance, it is not where you would want to be. If you open your heart and say come to me you will know, you will see.

In this world there are no prizes for suffering but...well that is, anything else i don't think is for me to say.

http://images.google.com/images?svn...a:en-US:official&q=poverty&btnG=Search+Images
 
what deluded you into this way of thinking?
the delusion is solely yours.
your standpoint is completely off the mark here. athiests need reminding to be good people just as much as everybody else.
WRONG!, see below.
just because somebody is an athiest it does not make them a good person,
that statement works if you use non-believer, but falls completely flat, with the use of atheist, you obviously have no idea, what it is to be atheist. see below.
just because somebody is an atheist it does not mean they have chosen to be good and kind where did you get this from?.
WRONG!, see below.
if you dont believe in god it doesn't make you automatically good and kind thats insane to believe that,
to become an atheist, takes years of study, years of self doubt, years of questions, then an atheist hits the zenith/enlightenment. which we all do individually.
however apart from, it's not reasonable to have a belief in a god/gods, theres a common realisation, the fact there is no afterlife, this is the only life you get, with that in mind, you become morally better, the golden rule becomes paramount, you cannot and will not harm, or kill.
it becomes ingrained in your psyche.
because you have that inate morality, to kill or harm, is wholly evil, as this is the only life a person gets, it would be wholly wrong to deprive them of that, an atheists morals are his guiding star, not like the religious morals which are only there, and only done to appease there god.

hence why it's the religious that do 99% of the killing.

"good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but for good people to do bad things takes religion."
and the last statement is absurd where on earth did you get the stats for that? i know plenty of atheists who are in prison, i myself was in prison while i was an atheist,
if your not an atheist now, then you were never an atheist, a non-believer perhaps.
you will find that here in england there are thousands and thousands of atheists and thousands are also in jail,
yes there is thousands of non-believers in jail here in england, but the murderers all have some kind of religious connection or are complete lunatics.
http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

as you know we are born technically atheist, a non-believer, however after being indoctrinated as a child into religion.
to become the atheist takes a lot of years of studying, it's a disgarding of all the beliefs your taught, a shedding of the religious skin so to speak. a skin that once shed is to small a size ever to wear again.
so although called an atheist, it doesn't have only one meaning, it's akin to being a laymen as opposed to the bishop, or the pupil as opposed to the principal, a vast difference. there are a lot of people who are simply non-believers, but unfortunately all are refered to as atheist.



in response to the OP you cannot not hate, that which does not exist, that is completely infantile, to even suggest.
the reasons atheist question religion, is they cannot understand how or why anybody can belief in such fantasies.

when ask by a lady at a fete who said "do you thing the archbishop of canterbury, to be a stupid man" richard dawkins replied " I think him to be a very bright man, I'm just astonished as to why he believes in god."
there is no hate, just astonishment.
 
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Could your post be any longer?

hence why it's the religious that do 99% of the killing.

If you think people kill because of religion then that is very naive. Obviously you mean 99% of the wars, It could be the most motivated and motivating factor that has been taken advantage of. Was WW2 fought over religion?

99% of killing due to religion? what about bar fights, road rage, crimes of passion - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...+passion&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

It is this us vs. them philosophy that causes all the problems.
 
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