the same as any other claim of knowledge - application - (how else?)
Why did we get free will?
- Thread starter Betrayer0fHope
- Start date
if god's omniscient, he knows what choices we will make. he can't give us free will, cos everything we do is his design. if i put a toaster together, i know it will make toast. god makes a person, he knows exactly what they will do in every situation. god just gave us choices, knowing exactly which we would pick. we're just characters in a script.
my more atheist stance is that every choice we make is based on thought processes. that's not free will, we're slaves to our own brain.
my more atheist stance is that every choice we make is based on thought processes. that's not free will, we're slaves to our own brain.
Take a deep breath... hold it, relax... slowly let it out.
OK
Everything is energy. Matter is concentrated energy (E=mc²).
What is energy?
In all cases it is a wave.
The purest example of energy is light as physicist agree that photons are fundamental and can't be further broken down.
Light is an alternating electromagnetic potential.
That means it would POTENTIALLY pull on a charged particle with varying intensity IF said charged particle happened to exists. This particle doesn't need to exist for the wave to propagate or light would never reach earth from the sun.
So everything comes from Potential Energy.
But how did actual everything come from Potential everything (ie. nothing)?
The same way all potential energy is realized. An outside force acted upon it.
This outside force is the Will of God. An infinite potential so great that it had to be.
The great I Am said "Let there be light".
As such Free Will is the ultimate force.
God created us in his image- as such we too have free will.
OK
Everything is energy. Matter is concentrated energy (E=mc²).
What is energy?
In all cases it is a wave.
The purest example of energy is light as physicist agree that photons are fundamental and can't be further broken down.
Light is an alternating electromagnetic potential.
That means it would POTENTIALLY pull on a charged particle with varying intensity IF said charged particle happened to exists. This particle doesn't need to exist for the wave to propagate or light would never reach earth from the sun.
So everything comes from Potential Energy.
But how did actual everything come from Potential everything (ie. nothing)?
The same way all potential energy is realized. An outside force acted upon it.
This outside force is the Will of God. An infinite potential so great that it had to be.
The great I Am said "Let there be light".
As such Free Will is the ultimate force.
God created us in his image- as such we too have free will.
I have noticed from a number of your posts that "application" is one of your favourite words, which seems to imply that if you stick at something long enough you can come to belive anything. Well, I happen to agree. It's even better if you apply yourself knowing what you wish to be convinced of; you get faster results that way.
Stand in a bucket, grasp the handle and, by "aplication", lift yourself off the ground.
Don't overlook cause and effect. Free will is an ilusion.
BTW, if you look at the state of things, god's toaster needs to be returned because of shoddy workmanship.
There is no arguing with that; you are too far gone.
That argument has been shot down so often that I am surprised anyone still uses it. We need neither god nor religion to be moral.
That is if God or religion was same for all of us, but the meaning that God and religion carries for us differs for us as well. And so does God is indeed part of the moral choices we make, some of us accept this realization and some do not.
If free will was truly an illusion you would not be able to discern it.
I disagree. We are constrained but, when we act, we feel we are free. That is , we believe we could have done otherwise which is not so, if you accept the notion of cause and effect.
The alternative is to reject causality bit, is you so, you must accept that your actions are random.
Myles we are free because in essence we are the same thing, all of us. When Jesus died for us and said he will die on the cross to redeem the sins we all have done, he showed us that we are all interconnected and our sin is his sin too. We are all the same essence. We are free truly, because we would not exist if we were not free in the first place. The only thing that constraints our freedom is we ourselves. The choices we make have indeed been made but there is an infinite many probabilities of what could occur and even though it has all been conceived our choices are always our own and that is freedom indeed. Illusion has to lack something from original in order for it to be classified such. What do we lack? Nothing.
You claim we lack free will, but how can you prove that we do indeed lack free will?
My claim is that this world, all of it, was created by us, we have created constraints for ourselves, for a purpose of learning a lesson (a lesson purpose unknown to me). We have so much free will that we purposely made ourselves feel constrained under the laws of the universe we created ourselves.
Did you ever cook a dish?
Let's say you are making vegetable soup and you have various sorts of vegetables available to choose from, ready on the kitchen counter. So you pick a few and make vegetable soup.
Within a given realm of options, we have free will to choose some options over others.
However, may people seem to think that in order to have free will, it would have to be us who produce, create those options from scratch; or that in order to have free will, there would also have to be freedom of action, nothing short of omnipotence.
As if our inability to unmake the taste of overcooked vegetables would be proof that we do not have free will.
Those who argue against free will usually take on two viewpoints from which the existence of free will appears completely impossible: They either view things on a microscopic level, seeking to find proof or disproof of free will in how atoms and molecules or even smaller particles behave. Or they view things from a (macro)cosmic level, basically arguing that given the size and versatility of the Universe, it is pointless to even look into the issue of free will, or that given the magnitude of the Universe, we humans certainly do not have free will.
The problem with both of these viewpoints is that we otherwise do not live our lives looking at things and ourselves from these viewpoints. Our usual viewpoint is somewhere inbetween the microscopic and the (macro)cosmic; we concern ourselves mostly with things like working, sleeping, cooking, hygiene, fun - things that would be impossible to do if we maintained exclusively either the microscopic or the (macro)cosmic viewpoint.
In the realm between these two viewpoints, we have various options and the free will to choose among them.
i don't think you have to reject causality if there is free will. why couldn't free will itself be a cause?
people often think black and white, and want to think that either we have free will or not. but we probably have free will, and at the same time we are also limited by many things. when we evolve, we might become more free. for example, we can't control our heartbeat with our free will, but there are some people who can. a psychic might also be considered to be more free, because they could change their future.
sometimes people say that we don't have free will because our feelings and desires control us. but isn't free will exactly that? to do what we desire? maybe free will and determinism is the same thing. i don't have free will because my thoughts and i control myself.
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Enmos
Valued Senior Member
To keep the population in check.
psychics can't know the future for sure, because the future is not determined. even "god" can't know the future because that would violate our free will.
the future has many goals and many paths. if we choose one path, it doesn't mean that our fate is predetermined, but the longer we travel that road, the more predetermined it gets, because we have less time to change the path.
the future has many goals and many paths. if we choose one path, it doesn't mean that our fate is predetermined, but the longer we travel that road, the more predetermined it gets, because we have less time to change the path.
I take it you are not serious
I have no intention of going over tired old groun yet again. Try a few philosophical texts on the subject and think it over !
I think you are confusing constraint with restraint.
You cannot sensibly talk of having " so much free will". Either we are free or determined.