god is placing us where we want to be
Why did we get free will?
- Thread starter Betrayer0fHope
- Start date
That's very good of him. Can I have a penthouse suite in Manhattan ? I really want to be there.
if you are not there already it must mean you are dealing with a few issues that will help distinguish whether you get to live there as a billionaire or a cockroach
You said he was placing us where we want to be but now you are twisting things as usual. I know what I want but it's my fault that god doesn't. So what's new ?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
all in good time my son
patience is a virtue .... even for cockroaches
What exactly is cockroach an analogy for ?
You can be in a penthouse suite in Manhattan either as a human, or as a cockroach ... or a fly ... but you still are in a penthouse suite in Manhattan. Myles said he wanted to be in a penthouse suite in Manhattan, but he has not specified in what way he wanted to be there - whether as a human or as a cockroach, whether as a scientist or a New Age guru or bank robber, whether as a man or a woman or something inbetween etc. etc. Many combinations are possible in a penthouse suite in Manhattan.
You can be in a penthouse suite in Manhattan either as a human, or as a cockroach ... or a fly ... but you still are in a penthouse suite in Manhattan. Myles said he wanted to be in a penthouse suite in Manhattan, but he has not specified in what way he wanted to be there - whether as a human or as a cockroach, whether as a scientist or a New Age guru or bank robber, whether as a man or a woman or something inbetween etc. etc. Many combinations are possible in a penthouse suite in Manhattan.
My god, that's deep !
Has it occured to anyone that god accepts a default value of one's present body unless specified otherwise ?
You are arguing for Lightgigantic's point.
There apparently is something about your present body (and present circumstances) because of which you are not eligible to be in penthouse suite in Manhattan.
You are arguing for Lightgigantic's point.
There apparently is something about your present body (and present circumstances) because of which you are not eligible to be in penthouse suite in Manhattan.
Not at all, it's about my wallet !
It's not fat enough to enable me to pay for that penthouse. Otherwise, nihil obstat as Father Murphy used to say.
JesseLeigh
Registered Member
Speaking of glib answers
Afternoon!
If any forethought went into the answers following my post, it's far from obvious.
For the record, I am not a 'He' but a she - my real name is Jesse.
Originally Posted by JesseLeigh
Evening lightgigantic!
You said, 'He is not being tested. We are.'
Good answer! Tested and trained. - Jesse. ”
You're assuming that I believe God 'Knows the outcome' of all things. I'm not convinced of that, but I do believe God has a Plan and knows the outcome of that. I believe God orchestrates whatever folly or 'good' that man brings about to fit into His Plan so it won't be derailed. Whatever we do, we will not change the purpose or outcome of God's Plan, which is 'To gather all things unto Myself, those on Heaven and those on Earth, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
With regard to testing, there are *requirements* for gaining entrance into the Kingdom of God. "Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength... and your neighbor as yourself."
What it comes down to is the quality of love we each have in our hearts and where our loyalties lie regarding Yahweh and Yeshua. Only God can say who loves enough, and we won't find our whether we qualify (so to speak) until Judgment Day.
I believe that those who truly love God and want to be a citizen of His Kingdom, will be, and that oblivion awaits all others - 'The second death.'
I don't 'pretend' anything - ever, and certainly not that I have all the answers. I can only share my present understanding with you at any given time. Forty years ago, I'd have answered these questions quite differently. That's why we have the phenomenon known as *spiritual growth.*
May God bless and shine His Light upon all of you - Jesse.
Afternoon!
If any forethought went into the answers following my post, it's far from obvious.
For the record, I am not a 'He' but a she - my real name is Jesse.
Originally Posted by JesseLeigh
Evening lightgigantic!
You said, 'He is not being tested. We are.'
Good answer! Tested and trained. - Jesse. ”
You're assuming that I believe God 'Knows the outcome' of all things. I'm not convinced of that, but I do believe God has a Plan and knows the outcome of that. I believe God orchestrates whatever folly or 'good' that man brings about to fit into His Plan so it won't be derailed. Whatever we do, we will not change the purpose or outcome of God's Plan, which is 'To gather all things unto Myself, those on Heaven and those on Earth, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
With regard to testing, there are *requirements* for gaining entrance into the Kingdom of God. "Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength... and your neighbor as yourself."
What it comes down to is the quality of love we each have in our hearts and where our loyalties lie regarding Yahweh and Yeshua. Only God can say who loves enough, and we won't find our whether we qualify (so to speak) until Judgment Day.
I believe that those who truly love God and want to be a citizen of His Kingdom, will be, and that oblivion awaits all others - 'The second death.'
I don't 'pretend' anything - ever, and certainly not that I have all the answers. I can only share my present understanding with you at any given time. Forty years ago, I'd have answered these questions quite differently. That's why we have the phenomenon known as *spiritual growth.*
May God bless and shine His Light upon all of you - Jesse.
Because I lack the time to start a moneymaking religious sect. Now Pat Robertson, there is someone who can afford to live in a penthouse as can others of his ilk.
Send me lots of money and god will reward you while I spend it ! It is more blessed to give than to receive. Don't miss this chance to become more blessed. This offer must end in September 2010. Give now till it hurts!
Um, if it requires "orchestration" then the outcome must not be a foregone conclusion, neh? Otherwise it couldn't be derailed.
So it doesn't need orchestrating?
Indeed.
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JesseLeigh
Registered Member
Afternoon Oli!
You said,
“ Originally Posted by JesseLeigh
but I do believe God has a Plan and knows the outcome of that. I believe God orchestrates whatever folly or 'good' that man brings about to fit into His Plan so it won't be derailed. ”
Um, if it requires "orchestration" then the outcome must not be a foregone conclusion, neh? Otherwise it couldn't be derailed.
With respect, you need to read my post again - it can't be.
“ Whatever we do, we will not change the purpose or outcome of God's Plan ”
So it doesn't need orchestrating?
It frequently does, and the Bible is replete with examples of where God tweaked circumstance to *ensure* His Purpose and Plan would stay on track.
“ If any forethought went into the answer... ...it's far from obvious. ”
Indeed.
Case in point.
Afternoon MYLES!
Pat Robertson is a far cry from Jesus.
Jesus said 'You received free - give free.'
Shalom Aleichem,
Jesse.
You said,
“ Originally Posted by JesseLeigh
but I do believe God has a Plan and knows the outcome of that. I believe God orchestrates whatever folly or 'good' that man brings about to fit into His Plan so it won't be derailed. ”
Um, if it requires "orchestration" then the outcome must not be a foregone conclusion, neh? Otherwise it couldn't be derailed.
With respect, you need to read my post again - it can't be.
“ Whatever we do, we will not change the purpose or outcome of God's Plan ”
So it doesn't need orchestrating?
It frequently does, and the Bible is replete with examples of where God tweaked circumstance to *ensure* His Purpose and Plan would stay on track.
“ If any forethought went into the answer... ...it's far from obvious. ”
Indeed.
Case in point.
Afternoon MYLES!
Pat Robertson is a far cry from Jesus.
Jesus said 'You received free - give free.'
Shalom Aleichem,
Jesse.
Apart from the fact that it's approaching midnight...
I read it several times.
So it CAN'T be derailed?
So why does it need orchestrating?
You're the one that said it.
So it DOES need orchestrating to stay on track...
Make your mind up.
QED
Either it needs tweaking or it doesn't.
If it does then it cannnot be a foregone conclusion.
JesseLeigh
Registered Member
Sorry about the time differential. I'm guessing you're posting from the vicinity of my homeland (Scotland). I live high up in the the Coastal Mountains in Canada (PST - so it's 3:41 p.m. as I type these words.)
Oli. God's Purpose and Plan cannot be derailed, for God will simply work around whatever He needs to in order to achieve His desired goal.
What is *not* a foregone conclusion, predetermination, predestination, etc., is what every human is going to do next.
Oli - think of God as an Architect. God has a Purpose and a Plan and He has outlined the details of both in the Bible. God will simply eingineer His way around whatever is necessary to accomplish His Purpose. e.g. when our ancestors did not behave, and would not listen to God's warnings, which he had Noah preach to the then inhabited world for seventy years prior to his beginning construction of the ark, God sent a flood and was pretty ticked off at the time, if you'll read the Biblical account. God gave those wayward people 120 years to listen, repent, and reform, but they wouldn't, so God *engineered* His way around the problem, and His Purpose remained intact. Puny mortals cannot derail the Plan of Almighty God!
My personal belief is that God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent, I'm not as convinced, however, that God is Omniscient - with regard to all minutia leading up to His desired end product being foreknown by God. I don't believe the Bible teaches that, and I do believe that humans have been *given* free will by God. Free will cannot exist if the outcome is predetermined.
Of course, I could be wrong - it's happened before. - Jesse.
Oli. God's Purpose and Plan cannot be derailed, for God will simply work around whatever He needs to in order to achieve His desired goal.
What is *not* a foregone conclusion, predetermination, predestination, etc., is what every human is going to do next.
Oli - think of God as an Architect. God has a Purpose and a Plan and He has outlined the details of both in the Bible. God will simply eingineer His way around whatever is necessary to accomplish His Purpose. e.g. when our ancestors did not behave, and would not listen to God's warnings, which he had Noah preach to the then inhabited world for seventy years prior to his beginning construction of the ark, God sent a flood and was pretty ticked off at the time, if you'll read the Biblical account. God gave those wayward people 120 years to listen, repent, and reform, but they wouldn't, so God *engineered* His way around the problem, and His Purpose remained intact. Puny mortals cannot derail the Plan of Almighty God!
My personal belief is that God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent, I'm not as convinced, however, that God is Omniscient - with regard to all minutia leading up to His desired end product being foreknown by God. I don't believe the Bible teaches that, and I do believe that humans have been *given* free will by God. Free will cannot exist if the outcome is predetermined.
Of course, I could be wrong - it's happened before.
- Jesse.
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