why did god let adam and eve get decieved by the serpent

Enigma'07 said:
No, I think I'm confused because you talk as though you see your self as some sort of Christian, yet you do not believe in Christ.
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M*W: No. I do NOT see myself as any sort of Christian. However, I do believe in the One Spirit of God.
 
Enigma,

They didn't have to understand "why", they had to understand that it was not to be done.
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”Why” is not the essential issue. How did they understand that it was not to be done without understanding that disobedience was bad and obedience was good? What reason did they have to obey God?

Yet I can argue that obedience is not allways good. If I told my son that he should kill a class mate that had cussed at him, should he obey me? No!
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Good example. How would he know not to kill his tormentor if he couldn’t comprehend the difference between good and bad? According to your reasoning he didn’t need to understand, he simply needed to obey you and kill accordingly.

Kat
 
Hebrew had no vowels. The words I quoted had no vowels. God allowed A&E to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil without warning them about the consequences of eating from that tree. Therefore, the consequences did not apply. A&E were still innocent
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I know all that, but that’s not my point. I was just wondering how the story of Adam and Eve turned out when Eve, Serpent, and Yahweh all have the same word in Hebrew, HWWH. How was it that it came to be that Eve and Serpent was added into the story as opposed to everything just being the result of Yahweh? An example:

"Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden. Yahweh told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Later in the day, a serpent came and told Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge. Once Eve heard of that, Eve told Adam to eat from the tree as well."

Let's say that is the up-to-date version right there. Now, since Eve, Serpent, and Yahweh all had the same Hebrew word of HWWH, it now turns into:

"Adam and HWWH lived in the Garden of Eden. HWWH told Adam and HWWH not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Later in the day, HWWH came and told HWWH to eat from the tree of knowledge. Once HWWH heard of that, HWWH told Adam to eat from the tree as well."

And if HWWH originally means Yahweh.. God.. let's replace all those with the word God:

"Adam and God lived in the Garden of Eden. God told Adam and God not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Later in the day, God came and told God to eat from the tree of knowledge. Once God heard of that, God told Adam to eat from the tree as well."

Taking it sentence by sentence, basically what we have here is that Adam and God live in the Garden of Eden. Okay, that's fine. But then God tells Adam and himself to not eat from the tree of knowledge. Heh, in that case, no wonder why God seems to be so messed up. But now we see that God is a schizo by telling himself to eat from the tree of knowledge.. I guess God wants to become smarter. Once God decides to eat from the tree of knowledge, he allows Adam to eat from it too because I guess Adam is his only friend in that Garden of Eden or due to his enlightenment from the fruit, he realizes keeping knowledge to oneself is a bad thing to do.

With all that said, no wonder why HWWH now meant Yahweh, Eve, and Serpent because otherwise it makes God seem odd, but what if that's how the story truly went before wanting to make it all "sound better"?

- N
 
When did God lie? When was He afraid?
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In the Book of Genesis.

God explained that if they ate the forbidden fruit they would surely die. The Serpent correctly advised Eve that this was not so. God deliberately misinformed His creations; God lied.

God seemed rather afraid of Adam in Genesis 3.22-23:

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" -- therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. (RSV)
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What? It's in the Bible. Doesn't anyone ever read that book anymore?
 
Well, Adam and Eve would have died regardless if they did or did not eat from the tree of knowledge since they never ate from the tree of life. So God kind of told the truth, he just made it sound as if they would die due to the act of eating from the tree of knowledge, but that is only because God cast them out of the Garden of Eden before they could have eaten from the tree of life.

Having Adam and Eve eat from the tree of knowledge actually would have made them live forever because with their newfound knowledge, they would have realized eating from the tree of life was a good thing and therefore they wouldn't have died, but well, God quickly stopped that from happening.

Be careful Tiassa, do not respond to my post or else you will die.. in 60 years! :p

- N
 
Enigma, it seems you have a real problem understanding the concept. Furthermore you mention "free will", which if it really was about free will, it would only actually work if they had knowledge of good and evil and then made the choice. However, the biblical texts show that until eating the fruit, they did not have knowledge of good and evil - and as such "free will" is a moot point.

Eve recited back to Satan that God had told them not to eat of it.
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Yes, after the serpent asked her what he'd said. Upon telling the serpent this, the serpent said "no, your eyes will be opened and you will become like gods, knowing good and evil". Just after eating the fruit "their eyes were opened", and then god says "man has now become like one of us".

So Enigma, we can see the serpent was actually being truthful - which is hardly an attribute people will place on the one they claim to be satan.god was then concerned about the tree of life. He says to the other gods that man must not also be allowed to take from the tree of life - because then they'll be even more like the gods, and so he booted them out of the garden.

So to repeat, even if they had the foreknowledge of good & evil, would adam & eve eat the fruit or not?
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Maybe, maybe not. It's statistics really.. I mean, not all of us do bad things, but some people will. You cannot really judge an entire species on the actions of two individuals.
 
I'd still like to know who the other gods were when God says "...man has become like one of us...".

Who the heck are "us"?

Kat
 
I'd still like to know who the other gods were when God says "...man has become like one of us...".

Who the heck are "us"?
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You'll find, interestingly enough, that almost every attempt to answer that question only complicates Christian faith. By the time you get to a book called The Clear Word, which asserts to be a "Bible paraphrase" (there are a few of these, it turns out), my case for redemptionism in Christianity being a racket is made quite clearly by a guy named Jack Blanco, and is done so at exactly this point in the Bible. Don't ever buy a copy of the book, but if you happen across one in a secondhand store (I can't imagine what respectable bookseller would buy up used copies except to classify as historical curiosities), check out Genesis 3. It's breathtakingly ... stupid.

I mean ... up until I found that book, the idea that God intended humanity to fall specifically to bind us had hitherto been a subtle joke of mine. And then along came a Christian--sounds better that way than, "One day I found a book in a random stack of my partner's stuff"--at any rate, along came a Christian who wrote the case for me.

Blanco is affiliated with the Seventh-Day Adventist Church at some level, but it should be noted on behalf of that larger body faithful that his "Bible paraphrase" has, in fact, stirred quite a bit of controversy, including the finding of polite ways to call bullshit.
 
God explained that if they ate the forbidden fruit they would surely die. The Serpent correctly advised Eve that this was not so. God deliberately misinformed His creations; God lied.
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Adam and Eve DID die. It wasn't immeadiate death, but from that point on, there were doomed to die at some point, along with all but Enoch and Elija.

Well, Adam and Eve would have died regardless if they did or did not eat from the tree of knowledge since they never ate from the tree of life. So God kind of told the truth, he just made it sound as if they would die due to the act of eating from the tree of knowledge, but that is only because God cast them out of the Garden of Eden before they could have eaten from the tree of life.
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God's truth is absolute. He said that they would die, and they have. God could not spent an eternity with sinners. They would have constantly been hiding. So God sent them out so they would not have to live thaat way.


Having Adam and Eve eat from the tree of knowledge actually would have made them live forever because with their newfound knowledge, they would have realized eating from the tree of life was a good thing and therefore they wouldn't have died, but well, God quickly stopped that from happening.
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The only rule was not to eat from the tree of knowledge. They as sinners could not spend an eternity with a holy and perfect God. God knew that it would be better off if He sent them away.

Enigma, it seems you have a real problem understanding the concept.
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Perhaps your right.

Furthermore you mention "free will", which if it really was about free will, it would only actually work if they had knowledge of good and evil and then made the choice. However, the biblical texts show that until eating the fruit, they did not have knowledge of good and evil - and as such "free will" is a moot point.
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They could either eat from the tree or not. That was their choice, theirfore, they had free will. God did not prevent them in any way from eating of the tree. They didn't have to know what was right and wrong. They didn't know what lieing was or stealing or killing; they knew that they had been told not to eat of that tree.

Yes, after the serpent asked her what he'd said. Upon telling the serpent this, the serpent said "no, your eyes will be opened and you will become like gods, knowing good and evil". Just after eating the fruit "their eyes were opened", and then god says "man has now become like one of us".
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The man became like God in the sense that he knew some stuff was wrong and other stuff was right. Except, man was not perfect as God was, therefore, they knew right and wrong and they would do wrong. The would spent an eternity hiding from God.

So Enigma, we can see the serpent was actually being truthful - which is hardly an attribute people will place on the one they claim to be satan.god was then concerned about the tree of life. He says to the other gods that man must not also be allowed to take from the tree of life - because then they'll be even more like the gods, and so he booted them out of the garden.
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No the serpent lied. He said to Eve "you surely will not die". that is an outright lie. Is Eve walking around to day? No. God kicked them out so that they wouldn't have to be hidding from Him all the time.

I'd still like to know who the other gods were when God says "...man has become like one of us...".
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All through the beginning portion of Genesis, the Hebrew word Elohim is used for God. It is a name that means The all powerful creator God, and it is a plural word.
 
BUT in Gen 2:17 it says,
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Looks like God is the one that lied, Enigma. God said when they would die if they ate it. Read it above. What day? THE DAY they eat of it. They didn't die THE DAY they ate of it.

So like Tiassa pointed out, looks like God is the one that lied.
 
THE DAY they eat of it. They didn't die THE DAY they ate of it

for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
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Death was garunteed to them, hence the word surly, and yes, they could no longer access the tree of life and eventually they died.
 
Look, if I said to you that I'm going to hit you the day you take my last dr pepper, what would I be saying? That the day you take it I'm gonna hit you. Welllllll, let's say you take it, but I don't hit you. So that means I didn't do what I said. I didn't say I'll hit you a month from now or 10 years from now..or you fill in the blank. I told you exactly when I'd do it. During the day you take it.. "in THE day".
 
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