why did god let adam and eve get decieved by the serpent

[Enigma'07]

The main point is that without the knowledge of good and evil Adam and Eve did not understand that disobeying God by eating the fruit was a bad thing. To then be severely punished simply because they were denied appropriate teaching before eating is an attrocious injustice.

they were told they could eat anything in the garden, EXCEPT from that tree. they knew it was wrong. Eve recited back to Satan that God had told them not to eat of it. Yet they choose to disobey God. Why did He allow it? Because a He wanted the people to praise him of their own free will as opposed to because they had to. It makes it much more meaningful.

Psalm 19:9b
"The comandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes."

 

[spidergoat]

So, why does God want people to praise him at all?

Also, this is not just about praise, its the big Fall, the "original sin", from which we are supposed to get saved, and God put the thing right in the middle of the garden, surely he could have hidden it somewhere in a cave. It seems that we were meant to fall, and meant to struggle back into grace by our own doing. In a larger context, this myth seems to try and reconcile the awareness of our own imperfection with the alleged perfection of the devine.

 

[SVRP]

SVRP,

The main point is that without the knowledge of good and evil Adam and Eve did not understand that disobeying God by eating the fruit was a bad thing. To then be severely punished simply because they were denied appropriate teaching before eating is an attrocious injustice.

Thank you for the reply, Katazia, but the question still is, if they knew the difference between good & evil would they have eaten the fruit or not? Would they have still rebelled against the command & disobeyed?

For example: Anyone who has children knows that they do not have the foreknowledge of what is right & wrong without the guidance from their parents. And even if the parents explain the reasons for obeying, the children may still not understand. "Don't touch the hot stove, don't put anything in the electrical socket, & don't cross a busy street," may be foreign concepts to their minds until they "disobey", which may result in their deaths. What is the solution? Isolate the child until the concept of good & evil is understood? And what about teenagers? They understand the limits the parents place on them, but have you known one that has not rebelled against their parents authority? And adults know the difference between what is good behavior & what is not acceptable, yet I would bet someone within a two mile radius of your home is lying, cheating, or stealing enough to break the laws of your municipality. They know what is good & evil yet they chose to do the latter.

So to repeat, even if they had the foreknowledge of good & evil, would adam & eve eat the fruit or not?

God is seen here as pulling all the strings and clearly tricked Adam and Eve. That is not the action of a just and perfect god. But if God is not perfect and just and Christains claim he is then we have a paradox, an impossible condition with the only reasonable conclusion being that the Christain god cannot exist as defined by Christians.

Actually God is seen here willing to take the risk & see if they will listen & obey His command, just like any parent would allow the freedom of a child to have within their home. And since they disobeyed, then God's plan of salvation went into place.

 

[Enigma'07]

Praising Him had to do with why He allowed them to sin, and eat of the tree.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

[/QUOTE]

Well, it does show the ultimate battle between two distinct forces. One of them was hellbent on keeping mankind as a mental slave whereas the other wanted mankind to have the ability to think for himself.

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M*W: Well, Snakey-poo, you've inspired me! It is the battle between two distinct (and opposing) "forces." It was the serpent who gave us "free will" and NOT God! God gave us one purpose in life, but the Serpent gave us the ability to choose!
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Those of the 'faith' ilk conduct their lives through a happy lack of knowledge versus those who seek to improve their lives and the lives of others through knowledge.

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M*W: And that "lack of knowledge" (aka "bliss") was given to us by the master god who would have us remain "ignorant." But those who seek to improve their lives and health (perhaps even eternal life) was given to humanity by the serpent so we would also have wisdom and knowledgein the form of "free will."
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"The pursuit of knowledge, unless sanctified by a holy mission, is a pagan act, and therefore vile."
Saint Bernard of Clairvauz (1190-1153)

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M*W: So much for Roman Catholic teachings!
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To think that someone who says this, can be considered a 'saint'. Through the ages, the sole focus is on destroying mankinds ability to seek understanding and truth - instead thinking life works out as long as you hold your hands together or cross your fingers.

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M*W: So true!
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It is really sickening. The majority of conflict and pain could be avoided if people would question and search for truth, instead of the "faith" method which merely means they're right, everyone else is wrong.

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M*W: That's the sad part about all of this. It isn't those of us who are more perceptive and intuitive (aka "spirit filled") that attains wisdom and understanding.
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Currently the world is occupied by millions upon millions of these cretins- which does not bode well for humanity as a whole.

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M*W: What's even more tragic is that these people you refer to are truly NOT "spirit-filled" at all but think they are!
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Personally I think the serpent should be thanked for helping mankind. I would rather a life with the ability to have knowledge, to be able to think, and to understand even the most simplest of things than a life of not knowing anything except servitude. We can see just how little Adam and Eve actually knew, as written in the bible: Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realised that they were naked.

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M*W: It was the serpent who told them the truth and "opened their eyes."
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Until they'd eaten the fruit they didn't even realise they were nude - so in essence no different to all the other animals on this planet. While some of you obviously prefer to remain as simple animals, I prefer, (as the bible says): having my eyes opened.

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M*W: Me, too, but Christians believe they are the only one's with knowledge and wisdom! We know they're not!
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You can all remain "with your eyes closed"- and thus get closer to what (your) god wants, but the rest of us are thankful for the knowledge we have been given.

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M*W: Yes, we are, but they will never know the truth! "Ignorance is bliss." They are slaves to ignorance! Thanks for your post. It was inspiring!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

It makes as much sense as a parent who sits a gun out for their child to get ahold of- If the biblical God found it so important that A&E not eat of the tree, why put it there to begin with?
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M*W: Yes, that's the same analogy. My guess is that the god of Genesis was not as omnipotent as the serpent.
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Why allow the serpent to tempt them? Why not tell A&E what the serpent was up to?

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M*W: I'm beginning to think that the serpent didn't tempt them at all! Maybe it was god who tempted them -- or at least failed to warn them about the serpent -- just like a parent leaving a gun out where a kid could reach it having never told that child that it could kill him! Same premise!
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Perhaps then he couldn't be seen as playing the role of hero saving them from hell, a place which HE created to begin with.

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M*W: Do you mean "god" created hell or the "serpent" created hell? In either case, it appears to be the serpent who saved A&E! Another tidbit of info, HWWH in Hebrew means Eve. HWWH in Hebrew also means Serpent. HWWH in Hebrew is also a form of YHWH or Yahweh or Jehovah. They ALL mean the same thing! Now that's another interesting twist. But, you do realize that Eve possessed the serpent's wisdom as well as the serpent's feminine sexuality! The serpent on a tree is the symbol of the cadeuses which denotes the healing that only the feminine spirit can do.

 

[Katazia]

SVRP,

the question still is, if they knew the difference between good & evil would they have eaten the fruit or not? Would they have still rebelled against the command & disobeyed?

No that isn’t the question. We don’t know what they would have done since they were never given the chance.

Actually God is seen here willing to take the risk & see if they will listen & obey His command, just like any parent would allow the freedom of a child to have within their home.

Why would they obey? To obey God would be good and to disobey would be bad – they had no way to make the distinction since they had not been allowed to eat from the tree that gave them that knowledge and ability.

And since they disobeyed, then God's plan of salvation went into place.

They disobeyed because they had no reason not to. The threat they were given was that they would die. Is death good or bad? They would not have known, and they had never seen death since they were the first humans.

To give a command and a threat to someone who is incapable of understanding the consequences of disobeying or the threat is entirely pointless. And then to punish them for something they did not understand is sadistic and cruel.

Kat

 

[Neildo]

M*W: It was the serpent who told them the truth and "opened their eyes."

Hence the name "Lucifer".

Another tidbit of info, HWWH in Hebrew means Eve. HWWH in Hebrew also means Serpent. HWWH in Hebrew is also a form of YHWH or Yahweh or Jehovah. They ALL mean the same thing! Now that's another interesting twist.

If HWWH means all of those, how did they come to the conclusion of seperating that word into Yahweh, serpent, and Eve? Was it to make God not seem so much like a trickster? It would then be God saying not to eat this and then God telling Adam to eat from the tree of knowledge.

- N

P.S. Learn to quote right, your posts are all jumbled.

 

[Tiassa]

Why did He allow it? Because a He wanted the people to praise him of their own free will as opposed to because they had to. It makes it much more meaningful.

But ... why did God lie?

And why was God afraid?

And who the hell was God talking to?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Hence the name "Lucifer".

If HWWH means all of those, how did they come to the conclusion of seperating that word into Yahweh, serpent, and Eve? Was it to make God not seem so much like a trickster? It would then be God saying not to eat this and then God telling Adam to eat from the tree of knowledge.

- N

P.S. Learn to quote right, your posts are all jumbled.

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M*W: Please explain!

 

[Enigma'07]

They disobeyed because they had no reason not to. The threat they were given was that they would die. Is death good or bad? They would not have known, and they had never seen death since they were the first humans.

They were told not to do it. It doesn't matter whether they understood the consequinces or not, they understood that they should not do it.

But ... why did God lie?

And why was God afraid

When did God lie? When was He afraid?

*W: Do you mean "god" created hell or the "serpent" created hell? In either case, it appears to be the serpent who saved A&E! Another tidbit of info, HWWH in Hebrew means Eve. HWWH in Hebrew also means Serpent. HWWH in Hebrew is also a form of YHWH or Yahweh or Jehovah. They ALL mean the same thing! Now that's another interesting twist. But, you do realize that Eve possessed the serpent's wisdom as well as the serpent's feminine sexuality! The serpent on a tree is the symbol of the cadeuses which denotes the healing that only the feminine spirit can do.

Were do you read of such things? What is your source?

 

[OliverJ]

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M*W: Please explain!

I think he means all your fancy ********* , and M*W: and stuff like that darling...... he confuses easily

 

[Enigma'07]

Yes darling, that is it exactly!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I think he means all your fancy ********* , and M*W: and stuff like that darling...... he confuses easily

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M*W: Yes, my sweet, maybe that is confusing him. But if he has the insight that his creator gave him, he should know.

 

[Enigma'07]

MW, I thought you didn't believe in a creator? Or was it just the Power of the Creator. Or am I way off?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

MW, I thought you didn't believe in a creator? Or was it just the Power of the Creator. Or am I way off?

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M*W: Whatever gave you THAT impression! I believe in our Creator, and I believe in the Power of our Creator. You are not way off. I think SouthStar had confused the members of this forum about my beliefs in the pursuit of his perception of God. Please do not confuse my beliefs with SS's concept of God. They are NOT the same!!!

 

[Enigma'07]

No, I think I'm confused because you talk as though you see your self as some sort of Christian, yet you do not believe in Christ.

 

[Katazia]

Enigma,

they understood that they should not do it.

How? If obedience is good and disobedience is bad, then how would they tell the difference without the knowledge of good and evil?

Kat

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Hence the name "Lucifer".

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M*W: Yes.
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If HWWH means all of those, how did they come to the conclusion of seperating that word into Yahweh, serpent, and Eve?

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M*W: I don't know how the separation took place.
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Was it to make God not seem so much like a trickster? It would then be God saying not to eat this and then God telling Adam to eat from the tree of knowledge.

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M*W: Hebrew had no vowels. The words I quoted had no vowels. God allowed A&E to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil without warning them about the consequences of eating from that tree. Therefore, the consequences did not apply. A&E were still innocent.

From what the earlier post says, God was the enemy of humanity.
P.S. Learn to quote right, your posts are all jumbled. [/QUOTE]

 

[Enigma'07]

They didn't have to understand "why", they had to understand that it was not to be done. Yet I can argue that obedience is not allways good. If I told my son that he should kill a class mate that had cussed at him, should he obey me? No!