Why can't ghosts exist?
- Thread starter Magical Realist
- Start date
what the fuck is your problem?
this is pseudoscience where things that are unexplainable at this time is discussed.
if an experience like that happened to you and it wouldn't make you more open to the idea of paranormal phenomena, then that's you. people who have had more dramatic experiences usually do.
I dunno. Why do you think I have a problem?
Correct.
Ah right. So you're generalising again and ignoring specific cases.
Fair enough.
what?? what i know is your like a buzzing insect all over this for no apparent reason but just to be contrary and nitpicking.
Oops, you're assuming.
I'm stating that your claim if this happened to you, i would think you would be much more curious or at least not as disbelieving about unusual phenomena is incorrect.
At least as far as I'm concerned. You're generalising again.
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Big buzzing trollbugs are best contained inside of airtight ignore jars. I've been bug free for awhile now and love it!
Yes, that way you don't have see any contrary views or actually have to think.
It must be very gratifying for you.
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
The mockery is based on the persistent making of claims with absolutely no attempt to justify them. The mockery is based on displays of willful ignorance. The mockery is based on intransigent gullibility.
If the paranormal is to be considered seriously then serious data must be offered in support of it. All I see from you is prejudgement and wishful thinking. There is essentially zero evidence to connect paranormal activity with souls. In the absence of such evidence it is really infantile to maintain a belief in such a connection.
In short, if you don't wish to be mocked stop saying dumb things.
people say stupid things all the time, asshole. interesting that you just single me out too besides accuse just me of pre-judgement and wishful thinking, even though i've been pretty open-minded about this subject overall much more than most. like i said, i think you just like to pick fights with people you dislike. as a matter of fact, i recieved a few pm messages basically telling me that is what you were probably going to do and their opinions were not positive about you. you seem to be very educated and knowledgeable but evidently people like you are proof that character has nothing to do with it, not saying that i'm a saint either. you called me a dumb bastard and likened me to an dead lizard's innards as well as not being human and all over a subject that is not even that serious. that's just personal animosity. it's not like someone saying murder is okay so therefore getting very angry. i don't have a problem with making mistakes or trying to look perfect. this is also in psuedoscience and there is no proof at this time. all there is are intentional hoaxes for commercial purposes and/or legitimate experiences that can't all be explained.
i also do not absolutely believe in ghosts or souls or know what is, it was speculation. so much for your reading comprehension.
as for the issue of sense of self, i recently talked to someone about it and they shared this with me.
many people consider the idea of the sense of self of the heart area to be embarrassing or too personal to reveal or it could be related to ego. some people consider it unrealistic so even if they do sense something, they may dismiss it. also, for many males it is viewed as sissy or weak. for some, they may just only have a sense of self in their head but even they admitted that seems unusual.
also, if someone just randomly came up to me and asked where i sensed my sense of self, i would not admit it is in my chest area which would imply all the very personal connotations of the heart probably just as they admitted they would not as well.
also, people can lie or deny anything so there really is no real proof except to go by people's words or what is implied. unless one is hooked up to a polygraph machine or some device which could test it, there is really no definitive proof.
also, this is not religion or politics and you are really overheated about this subject which is irrational. it has no impact on you politically or personally. i already conceded since you and a few stated your experience but you keep demanding i give you proof that is not available at this time. as i said, most people would not be openly inclined to say they feel a sense of self in the heart area. we live in a world where people block their heart off or put up barriers/defenses so they won't get hurt etc and some have even stated that even to me from time to time in one fashion or another. for now we can only go by the evidence that is implied or shown by people as a guestimate or generality.
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Jesus, seems your mind is so open your brains fell out. You do understand you sound vague, and dishonest though, when you say you don't know what it is you are proposing might exist? Like you daren't make a statement, so you can always disavow everything if questioned.
Propose a testable hypothesis please. This is a science forum, allegedly.
evidently you don't have a brain at all. i haven't been vague, it is called speculation on phenomena. there is a difference between what is well-established and understood thoroughly to just what can be described. do you think everything starts out established, dumbfuck?
actually i think you sound dishonest. this is pseudoscience. didn't you know, nitwit? what happened to your reasoning process? can't you distinguish between descriptions, hypothesis, theories and facts? lol.
is the real reason why it scares you because it doesn't coincide with your rock-solid belief of the world? lol. does a bit of uncertainty bother you? can't handle it? lol.
propose what? you expect someone just to say what can be testable so your ass can feel assured?? i even posted some people's alleged experiences which can't be proven at this time and you think people should just shut up unless it can?? go fuck yourself. i have to spell it out for you because you don't give a shit to discern any of the details but you demand evidence for subject matter you don't care about anyways. i gave an example of a guy who said he saw a form in a blue apparition. how is that purposely vague? that's what he saw and that's what he described. when i say i am open to the idea of ghosts or phenomena but i don't know what it is, that's exactly what it means. is that hard to grasp?? i can't say that they experienced isn't true though they don't know what it was either. i'm sorry you can't see it or touch it but there is nothing else to go on right now. as for my description of souls, that's just an idea. i see it as a temporal field or state of being though it can't be proven. so i'm supposed to not have the idea or express it because it's not testable??
why is it so ludicrously inconcievable when we don't even know what keeps things together except to call it gravity or fields when we don't even know what it really is either? and you have the nerve to insinuate i'm an idiot. science is full of hypothesis and theories that haven't been really understood either.
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Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
I view you and those like you as a serious threat to society and the future of humanity. What we have achieved as a species has been achieved against great odds and via the genius and the sacrifice of many. Individuals who are incapable of logical thought and whose emotional positions are stunted and warped delay that process and potentially corrupt others towards adopting their wooly way of thinking.
You say I argue with you because I dislike you. What reason would I have for disliking you? It is embedded in practically every post you have made and word you have written. I despise your closed mind. I find your lack of logic abhorrent. You are a small, but very real obstacle to the advancement of the human species, so what is there to like.
Change, or live with it.
You say I argue with you because I dislike you. What reason would I have for disliking you? It is embedded in practically every post you have made and word you have written. I despise your closed mind. I find your lack of logic abhorrent. You are a small, but very real obstacle to the advancement of the human species, so what is there to like.
Change, or live with it.
if you really do believe this, then you are fucking stupid or dishonest. i think it's more the latter. again, you tend to pick on people that you happen to dislike something about their posts which is not just about logic or lack of it. my logic is far from being abhorrent which makes you heinous for trying such a lie. how dare you accuse me of having a closed mind when it's clear that i have not been. your character is frigging abhorrent and even bordering on perversion of truth for someone as educated as yourself and supposedly in a position of authority. i've gotten messages saying that you are an awful person and that you have abused your authority on another forum and you probably do this at your job.
why i know you are a liar is because there have been multiple people on this thread who have expressed poor logic as well as pre-fixed beliefs where they have even adamantly stated this is against all reality when they don't even know. there tends to be two trains of thought on this issue, one is usually a total disbelief that it is even possible that these things could even occur assuming science has it all wrapped up (they are the most closed-minded) which is illogical and the other tends to be those who just believe without question. i have stated many times that since i have had an experience, it makes me more open to these ideas as well as others who have. still, there are hoaxes which have been busted but there is a lot of phenomena people have reported that are unexplained.
if you read the the subject matter under pseudoscience, it states 'unexplained phenomena' which is exactly what that means.
change it or live with it?? what? like i need your approval.
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this is just a quote i found and a lot of people reading that understand what they mean. and no, it's not just a shallow metaphor they are using but don't really feel it. of course they do, otherwise they wouldn't state it like this. you also said i was the first person to state such an idea that your sense of self is felt in the heart when it is just so obvious that is not the case. i also find it odd that you said i'm not human but you aren't even aware of this.
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like this statement has been a running theme from blunt naysayers in one form or another. it is actually very stupid because i never thought it was supernatural. it is just that we do not know all the ways matter can express itself. if we did, people wouldn't have experiences that can't be explained at this time. i made that clear many, many times. the real truth is their own problem is they can't get passed the idea that it is supernatural and react when the term 'ghost' or anything that is unexplained is used.
and i am the one accused of misinterpretation, stupidity, closed-mindedness and lack of logic.
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
Opinion, unverified by analysis.
Pick on people? Do you feel threatened and belittled because you are unable to mount a significant counter argument to any of my points. Cite an example where I pick on people. I attack nonsense ideas, wooly thinking and arrogant self deception, because each of these things should be attacked and dismantled.
On the contrary, your consistent tendency to accept far fetched explanations, in preference to the mundane is wholly typical of the closed mind. There are numerous examples within this thread. Not only do I dare to accuse you of this it would be irresponsible behaviour if I, or someone else did not point it out. In this instance JamesR and phlogistician have done so a number of times, implicitly or explicitly.
You don't know how educated I am. What position of authority do you imagine I am in?
Specify which forum, the nature of the authority I possess(ed) there and the nature of the abuse.
(By the way, you realise this is another example of your closed, channeled mind, wherein you automatically accept the data that seem to support your own beliefs without attempting any critical analysis of the data. Remarkable.:shrug
So, because other people have been illogical and I have not addressed their illogic I am lying about your illogic. You don't think that might be a tad.......illogical?
These would certainly account for a significant number of the reactions to the paranormal. There are other possibilities.
For example, on might find the possible existence of the paranormal fascinating. One might be intrigued by the avenues of philosophical and scientific exploration that would open up if the paranormal were demonstrated to be real. One might have a powerful desire that the paranormal be so demonstrated. At the same time one would recognise the need to adhere to the admonition "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". One would therefore demand of oneself a veru high standard of observation and control conditions and would look for no less from others exploring or investigating phenomena.
The dramatic and life changing significance that would accompany the demonstration of the paranormal would make it essential that casual, even enthusiastic, ready acceptance of poor quality data and observations be condemned vigorously and directly.
This is pretty much the stance I take on the matter.
I have cited two examples where I have seen ghosts, here or on another thread I have given an example of possible psychokinesis on my part. I have further personal experiences relating to auditory 'ghosts' experienced by a small group and examples of clarivoyance. These instances make me more sceptical of those who make similar claims. They seem to make you more ready to accept them, since you are too ready to accept your own eyewitness testimony. That ain't scientific.
Yet many of the instances have mundane explanations that tie into the gullibility and wooly thinking of many people.
Of course you don't need it. You might ask yourself why you want it.
^^that is all an example of total bullshit and being out of context. this is because you don't even understand the type of subject this is or even acknowledging that. it is 'unexplained phenomena'. it is YOU who are closed-minded and irresponsible.
what part of 'unexplained phenomena' do you not get?? and what is your problem with people stating their ideas?? it is done all over this forum but under a different moniker such as religion, philosophy, free thoughts etc., and even in elsewhere, retard.
what part of 'unexplained phenomena' do you not get?? and what is your problem with people stating their ideas?? it is done all over this forum but under a different moniker such as religion, philosophy, free thoughts etc., and even in elsewhere, retard.
your stance on the matter is actually ridiculous and unrealistic though you think others are. if someone had an experience, they had an experience. how dumb can you be? ready acceptance of what? it is not acceptance as you put it. it's not dismissal and it's open to speculation because that is all we can do for many of them. we are talking about people's experiences which all can't be just dismissed away. we aren't just talking about hoaxes. it is you who is on a closed-minded channel. there are people who have had experiences which cannot be explained and you still cannot handle that. i even posted examples and you have the stupid logic that you can invalidate it just based on lack of evidence presented to you. they don't know what exactly they experienced, that is why it is unexplained. you are intellectually dishonest because you are ignoring those examples which you cannot explain except by patently assuming it's a hallucination so therefore you demand that there is proof for someone even relating an experience. basically you are saying that a person should not be allowed to relate any type of experience unless it can be proven to be true. people have experiences that can't be proven to others all the time though not always of this nature. your stance is actually of pure intellectual dishonesty regarding this subject. you know these experiences cannot be explained so therefore you are disavowing them. that would be no different than if someone had an unusual experience and decided to post here on pseudoscience instead of a paranormal site, you and some others would invalidate their experience without even knowing what it is in the first place. for that, i am going to report you since this is the forum to post such occurences and to speculate on them unless they are proven to be hoaxes.
you asshole. what makes you so vile is everything you accuse me of in this thread, others have even been more guilty of.
as far as the messages, you should know better than me, i just related it to you.
dumbass, i already explained in a prior post that this is more easily dismissable vs other more compelling experiences and i think you even know that but you don't want to take that into account.
i posted a profound example of the firemen and if you think that is just nothing or can easily be dismissed away, then you are retarded beyond belief. it is not the same thing as seeing something randomly.
beyond that, these experiences do indicate there is something going on that can't be explained yet you keep hounding like a mad dog as if it can't be, then it should not even be taken into account or related that there may be something to it. it is clear you are an asshole among many others who have posted here because these stories are from actual people and you as well as some others are basically saying that it's not true unless proven when most of these phenomena can't or at least currently.
are you kidding me? like your statement about a dead lizard's innards? not being human?
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I'll ignore the insults, and concentrate on this last bit.
So we do not YET understand gravity. But you should know that the Large Hadron Collider is looking for the Higgs Boson, which may give us some insight into that, and in fact, recent data may indicate a new fundamental force.
See, these hypotheses are testable. Scientists can design experiments and gather data. Your testimonies are NOT data. Humans are not perfect, and this is the crux of these faery tales you accept! People who supposedly experience ghosts, or god, or whatever, think their perception is so perfect, and their world knowledge so complete, they can, without doubt, place their experience in the paranormal realm. This is pure arrogance. They should question their perception, and whether they have mis-interpreted the mundane, rather than jump to conclusions.
I accept that people from time to time suffer from a brain fart and experience something strange, and that it feels very real. I myself have had several hypnagogic dreams, and one was an alien abduction experience. Except my dream was witnessed by my partner, as being a dream. Had I been alone, and less educated, and more gullible, well, who knows, that experience might have led me to a conclusion that wasn't correct.
retard? what is it about unexplained phenomena do you not get either?? how is relating an experience which you cannot explain and speculating on them jumping to conclusions?? any ideas can be altered later upon further evidence anyways. i posted a story of a man who saw an apparition, for instance. so you are jackass enough to insist that is a conclusion when that is what they related and saw? so they are not allowed to do that because it's not verified as to what it is??? asshole much???
do you understand the concept?? do you think people shouldn't share their experiences or strange occurences because they aren't all testable right now?? also, you are so arrogant and stupid enough to believe that your education can figure all this out. i dare you to figure out what that firemen experienced. it's easy to demand but it's harder to actually offer something. DO IT. i bet you can't except to say it's an hallucination (how convenient) and you'll chuckle to yourself that you are oh so shmart. an alien abduction dream on it's own is not that compelling, idiot. we have all types of dreams. it's all in the circumstances and if there are some compelling details or occurences. don't equate all experiences which you are assuming which is stupid logic and conventional. the firemen's experience is something to take notice of much more so.
who the fuck is having the brain fart? because it sure as hell isn't me!
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