Why can't ghosts exist?

First thoughts on those two:

For the first one, it looks like the light might actually be on the wall behind the person in the middle of the photo, rather than in the middle of the room. Problem with that: you'd probably expect a "kink" where the back wall meets the right-hand wall. It's a very large step from "unexpected light blur in a photo" to "It must be a parasitic entity!"

As for the second one, it looks quite obviously like Vaseline or some other kind of hand cream smeared on the camera lens. Nice accompanying story, but I'm skeptical!


i never said you shouldn't be skeptical. i'm skeptical of claims of sensations of self only in the head too, btw.

did you read the link to the first one though? this is considered one of the most compelling paranormal cases in history so there might be something to it. that link is not the most comprehensive of the case but it's the one i found for now.
 
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did you read the link to the first one though?

There's no mention of the top photo in the link you provided, as far as I can see.

this is considered one of the most compelling paranormal cases in history so there might be something to it. that link is not the most comprehensive of the case but it's the one i found for now.

What do you find compelling about it, exactly?
 
There's no mention of the top photo in the link you provided, as far as I can see.



What do you find compelling about it, exactly?

because some of the descriptions match very closely with those with similar experiences. if one hasn't had them, it wouldn't be compelling or only to the investigators who witnessed some things.

Gaynor observed only bite marks on Carla's neck and bruises on her body. But general paranormal phenomena in the house was observed by many. Strange lights started to appear on the walls. Investigators covered the walls and ceiling with black cardboard and told the light source to move to certain spots. The light obeyed. On several occasions, it floated into the middle of the room, gaining speed and dimension, and formed into a distinct human-like figure before dissolving.

Gaynor remains convinced there was legitimate paranormal activity in the house, but he stresses that there was no evidence of anything paranormal about the attacks. If Carla did experience sexual assault, possible sources could have been a random violent spirit or disturbances in her psyche, such as subconscious childhood abuse memories.
 
because some of the descriptions match very closely with those with similar experiences. if one hasn't had them, it wouldn't be compelling or only to the investigators who witnessed some things.

So if I find 100 people who all say they have seen fairies in their gardens, would you find that compelling evidence of the existence of fairies?
 
carla2.jpg


http://www.cprs.info/ghost_stories/the_carla_moran_story.html


It was 1974 when Gaynor began to investigate the Culver City, California, haunting. "At the time I had a colleague named Barry Taff," said Gaynor. "We were working under the auspices of Dr. Thelma Moss, but Barry and I did most of the research on this case." Gaynor notes that Moss was a prominent UCLA parapsychologist who is now retired. (Editor's note- Since the this article was originally published in Omni magazine during the mid-1990s, Dr. Moss passed away on 1 Feb 1997.)

Gaynor and Taff made an appointment with the woman from the bookstore to discuss her case. Gaynor said the first time they visited the woman they conducted a two-hour interview. But Gaynor knew that she was holding something back. "I kept pushing her," said Gaynor. "Finally she said that a ghost had raped and beat her."

'We laughed when we left her home, and I thought she was probably off her rocker. But, she called me back a few days later and said that several people visiting her had seen an apparition. And this is what we're always looking for- independent verification of the phenomena."

"I'm a scientist and that's how I approach it. I don't take their stories at face value. Their story is the beginning and I don't discount it, but I'm there to experience the phenomena and document it."

The Entity case was to become one of the most famous in paranormal research history. It was so well-documented, in fact, that a movie was made about it. The 1983 film The Entity starred Barbara Hershey and was loosely based on the Culver City haunting. Gaynor and Taff served as technical advisors on the film.

The Entity case has to be one of the most worldly known cases in history. It was published in books, hosted on movie screens, and talked about for many years after...to this day some still discuss this case. Sightings: Ghosts has a very informational film on this and can be rented at any video store.

The second time Gaynor and Taff visited the Entity house, things began to happen. Although they never saw the apparition, they witnessed visual phenomena.

"We were seeing little pops of light," said Gaynor. "They would happen quickly. We would try to shoot the camera, but they were happening too quickly and we just couldn't catch them. We were shooting with a Polaroid and with a 35mm camera."

"I was standing in the kitchen talking to the woman's 16 year-old son when a lower cabinet door slammed open and a pan came flying out," said Gaynor. "It flew out and landed about three or four feet from the cabinet. I immediately tore the cabinet apart to see if there were any tricks, or if anyone was hiding in the cabinets. But, there was nothing. And that's when everything started."

"The lady screamed, 'It's in the bedroom!' We ran in there and that's when all the lights started happening. Thats when we got the Polaroid shots."

"The lady shouted, 'The ghost is in the comer!' We snapped the picture, but it was bleached out and not very interesting."

"She shouted again, 'It's in the corner!' And again the photo was bleached. At this point, I thought the camera wasn't working. So I took two control pictures. I asked her if the ghost was gone. She said yes. The picture came out perfectly. A few seconds later I took another one. Perfect picture."

"But then we got the most interesting Polaroid. The woman said, 'It is right in front of my face!' Those were her exact words. So, we took a shot. And in the photo you can see the curtains and the buttons on her dress, but her whole face is obliterated. We took a second picture when she once again said, 'It's right in front of my face.' Amazingly, her face was obliterated again, but you could see details in the rest of the picture."

"At this point I wanted another control picture. So I asked if the ghost was gone. When she said it was gone, the picture I took was perfect."

"On the third night, we decided to start with a seance in the bedroom," said Gaynor. The walls of the bedroom, however, were covered with chipped and uneven paint. Some of Gaynor's colleagues had commented that the uneven paint created images in his photographs. So the researchers covered the walls entirely with black poster board, so that nobody could make that claim again. They also numbered the black paper boards with a magnetic orientation and a number.

"Then the lights appeared," said Gaynor. "I would call out, 'All right, blink three times on board number two for yes. Blink twice on board number five for no.' It would blink on the exact board that I asked it to. At that point, the level of excitement really increased, because it seemed like we were communicating with something intelligent."

"But, I was very concerned that somebody was faking it by projecting light onto the wall. So I said to it, 'If you're really here, come off the wall.' I didn't think anything would happen. But, then the light pulled right out of the wall and floated into the middle of the room. It started spinning and twisting and expanding in different directions simultaneously. I had nine professional photographers shooting every angle of that room."

"It was extraordinary because it was floating in the middle of the room and the light was dimensional. It is very difficult to fake something like that. If you project light, you have to project it onto a flat surface. You can't project light into empty space unless you have some kind of very sophisticated laser system."

Gaynor said this was not likely a sophisticated hoax because this house had twice been condemned by the city and the investigators had sealed off the entire bedroom. Nobody could go in or out during the photo session.

"What we saw was not what ended up in the photograph," said Gaynor. "We were seeing balls of light, but the photo shows arcs of light over the woman's head."

Taff, Gaynor's colleague at the time and now a Los Angeles parapsychologist and writer, confirms witnessing this phenomena at the Entity house. Taff described the lights as three dimensional greenish-yellow to white balls of light.

"We never saw arcs of light. We saw balls of light," said Taff. "However, the camera captured arcs." The team captured a spectacular 35mm photo showing reverse arcs of light over the woman's head.

This photo was published in Popular Photography magazine. "Popular Photography has never published a ghost photograph before or since," said Gaynor. "But they published this one." This photograph was also broadcast on the television show Sightings in 1992.

Gaynor said he was not able to rid the woman of the assaulting ghost. "I'm not an exorcist," said Gaynor. "I document the phenomena. I research the phenomena, and I do a lot of counseling with these people."

The woman described the attacking entity as a solid male figure that she did not recognise. So how did the woman know it was a ghost?

"Because after the ghost assaulted her," said Gaynor, "it faded away."

"There were actually three apparitions according to her account," Gaynor stated. "Two would hold the woman down and the third would rape, her. It was horrible. She would call me in the middle of the night screaming, and I would go over there and she would be all beaten up. She had black and blue marks all over her body." But Gaynor never witnessed the attacks nor saw the apparitions in solid form.

Gaynor said, however, that he and several of his colleagues did witness the formation of a full-figured apparition. "We saw the head take shape and then the shoulders. The light extended down to the ground until it became a full humanoid figure of greenish-white light. Then it just vanished, almost as if somebody pulled the plug. It didn't fade away. It just vanished. Everybody was completely in awe and silent as we watched this happen."

Taff adds, "After the apparition disappeared, two young men assisting our investigation passed out and had to be carried from the room."

"The question, of course is, 'Were the attacks done by a person, or were they done by a ghost?'" said Gaynor. "And there is no way to distinguish between the two. The apparition didn't rape anyone else except the woman. These attacks were very personal."

"The attacks only happened very late at night. One night, the woman's 16-year-old son heard his mother screaming. He ran into her bedroom and saw his mother being thrown around on the bed. When the son reached over to help her, something hit him on the head and threw him across the room. He broke his arm."

Gaynor noted an unusual coincidence. When the movie The Entity was being filmed, the actor playing the role of the son broke the same arm while filming this particular scene.

The woman was attacked about 15 times during the ten-week investiga,tion. "But she got stronger," said Gaynor. "And she was able to realise that she wasn't crazy and that there really was something going on. She got stronger, and in my opinion, she outlasted it."

The woman moved five times, but the attacking entity followed her. She eventually moved further away. "As she moved," Gaynor said, "the phenomena diminished, and after about two years the attacks stopped altogether."

Gaynor said he cannot prove ghosts exist. But what is proof?

"A ghost in a jar," said Gaynor, "or at least that's what the scientific community would want."

Gaynor said he doesn't feel any need to convince the world to believe in ghosts. "I want the public to know about it, but I don't have an agenda. I'm not interested in standing on a pulpit and saying, 'You must believe in
ghosts.' Something is going on that demands our attention. I'm much more interested in figuring it out."
 
So if I find 100 people who all say they have seen fairies in their gardens, would you find that compelling evidence of the existence of fairies?

misunderstanding. i've had the experience and have dealt with people who have had similar trauma who describe similar experiences in that case. not exactly the same as in the lights in the photo but a lot of the descriptions match which is compelling.

as i said, if one hasn't had the experience, it all seems unbelievable and silly. that is natural.
 
birch:

Ah! Another first-hand account. Great!

What was your experience? Got any photos or other physical evidence? Any witnesses aside from yourself?

Magical Realist has a spooky niece, apparently, but he's not giving any helpful information there.
 
Hey James I was hoping you would come on before I sign off, I just remembered you know that little girl in the picture?. Do you see a resemblance in her to a "famous" well known picture often displayed on buses and posters promoting a certain boring play production, one that frequents the west end theatres?

The Les miserables Girl! that's where i got some wierd dejavu feeling from She totaly reminds me of the Les miserables Chick can you see it?



Peace be with you
 
misunderstanding. i've had the experience and have dealt with people who have had similar trauma who describe similar experiences in that case. not exactly the same as in the lights in the photo but a lot of the descriptions match which is compelling.

as i said, if one hasn't had the experience, it all seems unbelievable and silly. that is natural.

Bitch, your experience doesn't mean shit as long as you continue entertaining this delusion that something other than matter exists in the physical reality.
 
birch:

Ah! Another first-hand account. Great!

What was your experience? Got any photos or other physical evidence? Any witnesses aside from yourself?

Magical Realist has a spooky niece, apparently, but he's not giving any helpful information there.


you know, this is not very intelligent and it's also rude, which is why i was also rude. i already knew what this was going to bring out in a forum and especially in a science forum. there is already a preconcieved idea that it is not real without proof but that is faulty logic because of the nature of these experiences. yes, some of them are hoaxes and have been proven to be but you are not distinguishing that there are various paranormal or unexplained phenomena. you are also not even understanding what i said.

did i say that i have evidence?? do you have evidence for your experiences? no, you don't. only you have your memories and the experiences with people around you. you can't prove any of those to me.

similarly because one has an experience then they would be less likely to dismiss or believe that occurrences like this are unreal. it doesn't mean one isn't skeptical as well but they are much more likely to take it seriously or consider it. that was the point.

As I said in my last post, this is simply metaphor, since the heart at one time was seen as the 'seat of the soul'. This does not necessarily mean that people generally felt this was where there 'self' was located.

and here is this idiot's post. i've been called the asshole and idiot when in reality it was just as condescending and dismissive and self-projecting to say it was metaphors only. amazingly just stating that people who experience a sense of self in the heart area or what is called a soul was more typical and those who feel in their heads is unusual or more unique was considered almost an insult which doesn't even make sense as if i'm projecting onto the whole of humanity when that is where i'm getting my generality from. also demanding proof when it is very evident from experience in life is rather unfair and disingenuous. i even asked phlog to give me literal proof of cruelty (not an interpretation) and he just flat out told me people know what it is meaning what he senses or perceives to be cruel should be agreed or understood by others as if it is common sense. this is similar, it is not something that can be bottled up. well, i say people know this just by experience.

this has been the theme all along of mockery of the very idea of paranormal, and mockery of the idea of anything hinting of souls.
 
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Magical Realist:



Ok. Here's the full story:

Tony O'Rahilly, a sewage farm worker who was also an amateur photographer, was originally stopped by police from approaching the burning town hall in the town of Wem. He took a picture of the blaze from across the road with a 200mm lens. The image of a girl in the doorway of the burning building was not noticed by the photographer or the onlookers; it only appeared after the photo had been developed.

The Association for the Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena (ASSAP) was sent the photo, and forwarded it to former Royal Photographic Society president, Dr. Vernon Harrison. Harrison concluded that the image did appear to be genuine, but he continued to be skeptical, believing it could have been the smoke or light playing tricks.

A later analysis by photographic officers of the National Media Museum concluded that the photograph was doctored. A negative made from the photograph (not the original negative) showed horizontal scan lines consistent with those of a television image across the image of the girl. The officers concluded that the girl's image was likely pasted into the photograph.

In 2010, five years after the death of the photographer, a 77-year-old local resident of the town claimed to solve the mystery, citing a similarity between the girl in the photograph and the image of a girl printed on a postcard that appeared in the local paper Shropshire Star. The postcard in question was taken in 1922 and shows a young girl who resembles the so-called "Wem Ghost".​

Here's the fire photo:

wemtownhallghostgirlthumb1.jpg


and here's the postcard from 1922:

SD3471324p9fridayapril2.jpg


See also the links in the following post.

----

What do you think about the "Wem ghost" after all that, Magical Realist? Will you agree that the fire photo is a fake? Or do you still think it may be genuine? Maybe the girl in the 1922 photo came back as a ghost in 1995 and really did appear in exactly the same position, clothes etc. as in the 1922 photo. Which explanation is more likely, in your opinion?

A few points worth mentioning: a number of "experts" looked at the Wem fire photo and concluded that it was not faked. In fact, it took 10 years for somebody to find convincing evidence that it was, in fact, a fake, even though at least one earlier analysis had pointed in that direction.

If you search for "Wem ghost" on google, a whole of sites turn up in the search, and a lot of them are ghost believer sites. From a quick look, I estimate that maybe 50% of the ghost "investigation" sites from the believers that deal with Wem ghost mention that the photo is a fake. The rest still say it's a big mystery and that it could be a real ghost, even 6 years after convincing evidence was presented. And there are some true-believer sites who post the evidence that it's a fake but also steadfastly refuse to accept that evidence as convincing, instead claiming that the "mystery" remains unsolved - Spooky woo woo!

How about you, Magical Realist? Will you admit that, in this case at least, the photo is fake? Or do you doubt the scientific evidence? Do you still think it might be real?

Bear in mind that this is just ONE example. But it's a good one. Between 1995 and 2005, I'm sure that most of the ghost believer sites said "This is a great example of a ghost! Spooky woo woo! Look! Creepy." How many of them would have said "We think this one might be a fake because X,Y,Z?" I think most would follow your line of poor reasoning: "We can't explain the girl in this photo, so she must be a ghost!" In fact, a lot of site went off looking for the ghost, even tracing it back to a girl who supposedly accidentally set the same building on fire back in 1677. They even give a name for the girl. It all adds spooky colour and credibility to the story.

To compare, consider again your photo of the two girls that we were talking about earlier. In a short space of time I have already suggested three possible explanations for how it may not be a ghost photo (outright fakery via photoshop, reflection in a window, motion blur). One of those may be right, but all may be wrong. We don't know. So it must be a ghost! No! So we gather more evidence, or we wait and see. Who knows, one year from now, or 10 years from now, one of the girls might confess to the fake, or somebody might find solid evidence of fakery, or some other explanation that's perfectly reasonable may come to light.

Are you starting to see how real scientific analysis works yet? Or are you just going to go right on believing that the Wem ghost is real despite the evidence put right in front of your nose, because you like the idea that ghosts exist?


Uhh..yeah like I said it was already mentioned to have possibly been from a postcard. So you haven't told us anything we didn't already know. Sure,it could be a fake. So what? People fake one dollars bills too, but that doesn't mean real ones don't exist.
 
carla2.jpg


http://www.cprs.info/ghost_stories/the_carla_moran_story.html


It was 1974 when Gaynor began to investigate the Culver City, California, haunting. "At the time I had a colleague named Barry Taff," said Gaynor. "We were working under the auspices of Dr. Thelma Moss, but Barry and I did most of the research on this case." Gaynor notes that Moss was a prominent UCLA parapsychologist who is now retired. (Editor's note- Since the this article was originally published in Omni magazine during the mid-1990s, Dr. Moss passed away on 1 Feb 1997.)

Gaynor and Taff made an appointment with the woman from the bookstore to discuss her case. Gaynor said the first time they visited the woman they conducted a two-hour interview. But Gaynor knew that she was holding something back. "I kept pushing her," said Gaynor. "Finally she said that a ghost had raped and beat her."

'We laughed when we left her home, and I thought she was probably off her rocker. But, she called me back a few days later and said that several people visiting her had seen an apparition. And this is what we're always looking for- independent verification of the phenomena."

"I'm a scientist and that's how I approach it. I don't take their stories at face value. Their story is the beginning and I don't discount it, but I'm there to experience the phenomena and document it."

The Entity case was to become one of the most famous in paranormal research history. It was so well-documented, in fact, that a movie was made about it. The 1983 film The Entity starred Barbara Hershey and was loosely based on the Culver City haunting. Gaynor and Taff served as technical advisors on the film.

The Entity case has to be one of the most worldly known cases in history. It was published in books, hosted on movie screens, and talked about for many years after...to this day some still discuss this case. Sightings: Ghosts has a very informational film on this and can be rented at any video store.

The second time Gaynor and Taff visited the Entity house, things began to happen. Although they never saw the apparition, they witnessed visual phenomena.

"We were seeing little pops of light," said Gaynor. "They would happen quickly. We would try to shoot the camera, but they were happening too quickly and we just couldn't catch them. We were shooting with a Polaroid and with a 35mm camera."

"I was standing in the kitchen talking to the woman's 16 year-old son when a lower cabinet door slammed open and a pan came flying out," said Gaynor. "It flew out and landed about three or four feet from the cabinet. I immediately tore the cabinet apart to see if there were any tricks, or if anyone was hiding in the cabinets. But, there was nothing. And that's when everything started."

"The lady screamed, 'It's in the bedroom!' We ran in there and that's when all the lights started happening. Thats when we got the Polaroid shots."

"The lady shouted, 'The ghost is in the comer!' We snapped the picture, but it was bleached out and not very interesting."

"She shouted again, 'It's in the corner!' And again the photo was bleached. At this point, I thought the camera wasn't working. So I took two control pictures. I asked her if the ghost was gone. She said yes. The picture came out perfectly. A few seconds later I took another one. Perfect picture."

"But then we got the most interesting Polaroid. The woman said, 'It is right in front of my face!' Those were her exact words. So, we took a shot. And in the photo you can see the curtains and the buttons on her dress, but her whole face is obliterated. We took a second picture when she once again said, 'It's right in front of my face.' Amazingly, her face was obliterated again, but you could see details in the rest of the picture."

"At this point I wanted another control picture. So I asked if the ghost was gone. When she said it was gone, the picture I took was perfect."

"On the third night, we decided to start with a seance in the bedroom," said Gaynor. The walls of the bedroom, however, were covered with chipped and uneven paint. Some of Gaynor's colleagues had commented that the uneven paint created images in his photographs. So the researchers covered the walls entirely with black poster board, so that nobody could make that claim again. They also numbered the black paper boards with a magnetic orientation and a number.

"Then the lights appeared," said Gaynor. "I would call out, 'All right, blink three times on board number two for yes. Blink twice on board number five for no.' It would blink on the exact board that I asked it to. At that point, the level of excitement really increased, because it seemed like we were communicating with something intelligent."

"But, I was very concerned that somebody was faking it by projecting light onto the wall. So I said to it, 'If you're really here, come off the wall.' I didn't think anything would happen. But, then the light pulled right out of the wall and floated into the middle of the room. It started spinning and twisting and expanding in different directions simultaneously. I had nine professional photographers shooting every angle of that room."

"It was extraordinary because it was floating in the middle of the room and the light was dimensional. It is very difficult to fake something like that. If you project light, you have to project it onto a flat surface. You can't project light into empty space unless you have some kind of very sophisticated laser system."

Gaynor said this was not likely a sophisticated hoax because this house had twice been condemned by the city and the investigators had sealed off the entire bedroom. Nobody could go in or out during the photo session.

"What we saw was not what ended up in the photograph," said Gaynor. "We were seeing balls of light, but the photo shows arcs of light over the woman's head."

Taff, Gaynor's colleague at the time and now a Los Angeles parapsychologist and writer, confirms witnessing this phenomena at the Entity house. Taff described the lights as three dimensional greenish-yellow to white balls of light.

"We never saw arcs of light. We saw balls of light," said Taff. "However, the camera captured arcs." The team captured a spectacular 35mm photo showing reverse arcs of light over the woman's head.

This photo was published in Popular Photography magazine. "Popular Photography has never published a ghost photograph before or since," said Gaynor. "But they published this one." This photograph was also broadcast on the television show Sightings in 1992.

Gaynor said he was not able to rid the woman of the assaulting ghost. "I'm not an exorcist," said Gaynor. "I document the phenomena. I research the phenomena, and I do a lot of counseling with these people."

The woman described the attacking entity as a solid male figure that she did not recognise. So how did the woman know it was a ghost?

"Because after the ghost assaulted her," said Gaynor, "it faded away."

"There were actually three apparitions according to her account," Gaynor stated. "Two would hold the woman down and the third would rape, her. It was horrible. She would call me in the middle of the night screaming, and I would go over there and she would be all beaten up. She had black and blue marks all over her body." But Gaynor never witnessed the attacks nor saw the apparitions in solid form.

Gaynor said, however, that he and several of his colleagues did witness the formation of a full-figured apparition. "We saw the head take shape and then the shoulders. The light extended down to the ground until it became a full humanoid figure of greenish-white light. Then it just vanished, almost as if somebody pulled the plug. It didn't fade away. It just vanished. Everybody was completely in awe and silent as we watched this happen."

Taff adds, "After the apparition disappeared, two young men assisting our investigation passed out and had to be carried from the room."

"The question, of course is, 'Were the attacks done by a person, or were they done by a ghost?'" said Gaynor. "And there is no way to distinguish between the two. The apparition didn't rape anyone else except the woman. These attacks were very personal."

"The attacks only happened very late at night. One night, the woman's 16-year-old son heard his mother screaming. He ran into her bedroom and saw his mother being thrown around on the bed. When the son reached over to help her, something hit him on the head and threw him across the room. He broke his arm."

Gaynor noted an unusual coincidence. When the movie The Entity was being filmed, the actor playing the role of the son broke the same arm while filming this particular scene.

The woman was attacked about 15 times during the ten-week investiga,tion. "But she got stronger," said Gaynor. "And she was able to realise that she wasn't crazy and that there really was something going on. She got stronger, and in my opinion, she outlasted it."

The woman moved five times, but the attacking entity followed her. She eventually moved further away. "As she moved," Gaynor said, "the phenomena diminished, and after about two years the attacks stopped altogether."

Gaynor said he cannot prove ghosts exist. But what is proof?

"A ghost in a jar," said Gaynor, "or at least that's what the scientific community would want."

Gaynor said he doesn't feel any need to convince the world to believe in ghosts. "I want the public to know about it, but I don't have an agenda. I'm not interested in standing on a pulpit and saying, 'You must believe in
ghosts.' Something is going on that demands our attention. I'm much more interested in figuring it out."

I don't believe in ghosts but I like this picture. The top curved light thingy is definitely a hair but the bottom one..... definitely a little weirder. Could be an error in the photo processing maybe?
 
I don't believe in ghosts but I like this picture.

i don't know what ghosts are either but i thought you were a theist/christian or maybe your views have changed.

the idea of ghosts/spirits shouldn't be too far-fetched then.

i'm sure it's not supernatural just something that can't be explained right now.

as for some photos, it's really hard to say. take for instance, if you happen to be one of those people who did witness these things especially the part where they asked the light to move etc. of course it would be difficult for anyone else to believe it because it's out of the ordinary. it must be somewhat frustrating to know something that others will not take you seriously for or think it's untrue. that's the thing with these types of phenomena with exceptions of hoaxes.
 
Most theist believe that you go to heaven, hell, or purgatory, ghosts don't fit into that.

They are pretty much an impossibility to me, at least as human spirits.

HOWEVER, some kind of crazy inter-dimensional beings that are only half in our reality are a possibility though I would say that if it was there and as prevalent as the internet (and unsolved mysteries lol) seems to think we would have concrete proof by now. Over a 100 years of cameras and not one reproducible experience??? Not very likely if they're real.
 
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Most theist believe that you go to heaven, hell, or purgatory, ghosts don't fit into that.

They are pretty much an impossibility to me, at least as human spirits.

HOWEVER, some kind of crazy inter-dimensional beings that are only half in our reality are a possibility though I would say that if it was there and as prevalent as the internet (and unsolved mysteries lol) seems to think we would have concrete proof by now. Over a 100 years of cameras and not one reproducible experience??? Not very likely if their real.

this is because you are defining ghosts in cultural superstitious terms. we don't know what they are. evidently this woman had some experience and there were some people who witnessed some things that may have been out of the ordinary (that is if they are telling the truth) which they very well may have.

if you consider these phenomena as out of the ordinary, then it would be understandable that it would be hard to reproduce considering we don't know what they are either. perhaps you could liken it to some type of wreck or rift in space/time.

science really doesn't know everything. there is this assumption that all the scientific methodology today is set in stone and can determine what is real and what is not. we don't know everything about our reality and definitely not beyond it.
 
Except at a lot of these things the people claim that weird stuff happens ALL THE TIME. Real scientists show up and nothing happens. As soon as the scientists leave they start claiming its happening again.

Pretty much people just trying to make a buck/get on TV/prey on those that don't think.
 
Except at a lot of these things the people claim that weird stuff happens ALL THE TIME. Real scientists show up and nothing happens. As soon as the scientists leave they start claiming its happening again.

Pretty much people just trying to make a buck/get on TV/prey on those that don't think.

of course that would happen but that's more for entertainment that doesn't mean that some phenomena doesn't occur because we don't know how everything really works.

it's like saying because there are criminals who lie, no one is telling the truth.

a lot of unusual things do happen but they aren't all related to ghost sightings even. what i mean by that is though there is a proportion of people who do experience various phenomena that aren't logically explained at this time, there are more people who haven't experienced it or in a dramatic fashion. for instance, some experiences are easy to just pass off or ignore as a random hallucination. some are a lot more involved than that.

for instance, someone knowing that a relative died thousands of miles away. they just knew but couldn't explain how etc.

it's just a lot we don't know as we tend to see only the surface.
 
of course that would happen but that's more for entertainment that doesn't mean that some phenomena doesn't occur because we don't know how everything really works.

it's like saying because there are criminals who lie, no one is telling the truth.

a lot of unusual things do happen but they aren't all related to ghost sightings even. what i mean by that is though there is a proportion of people who do experience various phenomena that aren't logically explained at this time, there are more people who haven't experienced it or in a dramatic fashion. for instance, some experiences are easy to just pass off or ignore as a random hallucination. some are a lot more involved than that.

for instance, someone knowing that a relative died thousands of miles away. they just knew but couldn't explain how etc.

it's just a lot we don't know as we tend to see only the surface.

While what your saying is somewhat true, its been 100+ years since we have had cameras and we still have no definitive proof. We have lots of criminals that have been later proven innocent in the same time frame, but not one certifiable ghost. Basically, it's time to throw in the towel.
 
While what your saying is somewhat true, its been 100+ years since we have had cameras and we still have no definitive proof. We have lots of criminals that have been later proven innocent in the same time frame, but not one certifiable ghost. Basically, it's time to throw in the towel.

that's a very shallow view but that's your opinion. i also find it odd that a theist would say something like this. also, your take on religion was incorrect. the idea of ghosts, demons, angels and spirits as well as even witchcraft is in the bible. you have rather a compartmentalized or convenient view of your beliefs.

how does one certify a ghost anyways? how does one bottle it up? how does one take a picture that people cannot say it was faked etc? there really isn't.

besides, i can tell that you really don't know just how varied these phenomena are. also, this is very easy for someone who hasn't experienced anything very compelling to just see it as unreal and to be flippant. that is natural but that doesn't mean it's true. we often tend to think unless an experience is universal, it's not true. we all tend to think that way but there are exceptions. you are also not understanding how these things happen. for instance, if one sees a ghost in the middle of the night, do you think everyone is going to think of taking a picture or calling ghost-hunters? most likely they would just be frightened and even wary of telling others lest they think they were nuts.

for intance, there is a story related be a fireman who was trapped in a burning building and resigned himself to die because he couldn't see the exist because of the heavy accumulating smoke. he was crawling following the trail of the hose but it was tangled and actually was only a few feet away from the exit. he just sat there believing it was his time to go when he described a blue light on one of the building's beams as the one he was leaning on which took on a hazy figure. it didn't say anything but just pointed in a certain direction so he crawled right out to safety.

after the fire had ceased and the building was clear, they went into check the location of that sighting and that area of the beam where he saw the vision was cool to the touch.

now honestly tell me, if this happened to you, i would think you would be much more curious or at least not as disbelieving about unusual phenomena. also, if you related this experience to others, you would also know that many would not believe you. that's just the way it is.

now how are you going to recreate this? the guy doesn't even know what happened either. it's just one of those big question marks people store away in the back of their minds and ponder once in a while.
 
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