Why Be Religous!?!?!?!?!?

[inspector]

"How about the two, contradictory, geneologies of Jesus?"
----------------------------

Let's look at this one for a moment. Both Matthew 1 and Luke 3 contain genealogies of Jesus. But there is one problem. They are different. Luke's Genealogy starts at Adam and goes to David. Matthew's Genealogy starts at Abraham and goes to David. When the genealogies arrive at David, they split with David's sons: Nathan (Mary's side) and Solomon (Joseph's side).

There is no discrepancy because one genealogy is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. It was customary to mention the genealogy through the father even though it was clearly known that it was through Mary. Some critics may not accept this explanation no matter what reasoning is produced. Nevertheless, they should first realize that the Bible should be interpreted in the context of its literary style, culture, and history. Breaking up genealogies into male and female representations was acceptable in the ancient Near East culture since it was often impolite to speak of women without proper conditions being met: male presence, etc. Therefore, one genealogy is of Mary and the other of Joseph, even though both mention Joseph. In other words, the Mary was counted "in" Joseph and under his headship. Second, do any critics actually think that those who collected the books of the New Testament, and who believed it was inerrant, were unaware of this blatant differentiation in genealogies? Does anyone actually think that the Christians were so dense that they were unaware of the differences in the genealogy lists, closed their eyes and put the gospels into the canon anyway hoping no one would notice? Not at all. They knew the cultural context and had no problem with it knowing that one was of Joseph and the other of Mary. Third, notice that Luke starts with Mary and goes backwards to Adam. Matthew starts with Abraham and goes forward to Joseph. The intents of the genealogies were obviously different which is clearly seen in their styles. Luke was not written to the Jews, Matthew was. Therefore, Matthew would carry the legal line (from Abraham through David) and Luke the biological one (from Adam through David). Also, notice that Luke's first three chapters mention Mary eleven times; hence, the genealogy from her. Fourth, notice Luke 3:23, "And when He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being supposedly the son of Joseph, the son of Eli," This designation "supposedly" seems to signify the Marian genealogy since it seems to indicate that Jesus is not the biological son of Joseph.

Finally, in the Joseph genealogy is a man named Jeconiah. God cursed Jeconiah (also called Coniah), stating that no descendant of his would ever sit on the throne of David, "For no man of his descendants will prosper sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah," (Jer. 22:30). But Jesus, of course, will sit on the throne in the heavenly kingdom. The point is that Jesus is not a biological descendant of Jeconiah, but through the other lineage -- that of Mary. Hence, the prophetic curse upon Jeconiah stands inviolate. But, the legal adoption of Jesus by Joseph reckoned the legal rights of Joseph to Jesus as a son, not the biological curse. This is why we need two genealogies: one of Mary (the actually biological line according to prophecy), and the legal line through Joseph.

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[inspector]

Just how many gods are there?
-------------------

The Bible tells us that there is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8). However, it also mentions "other gods." For example there is Adrammelech and Anammelech (2 Kings 17:31), Asherah (1 Kings 18:19), Baal (Judges 3:1), Chemosh (Num. 21:29), Dagon (1 Sam. 5:2), Molech (Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5), etc. The Bible is not contradicting itself. When the Bible speaks of other gods it is speaking of false gods that have no true existence. Gal. 4:8 says, "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods." See also, Isaiah 37:19 and Jeremiah 2:11. God tells us that he alone is the true God and that all of the invented gods of man do not exist except in their own minds. So, we can see that the Bible is not contradicting itself regarding how many gods there are in existence. There is only one.

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[LIGHTBEING]

Inspector...do we really need to go through all of the contradictions? Here is something I posted in another thread which originated from a sciforums member.

"Some Forgotten Sayings of Jesus"

Any believer can call God “Father” according to the Bible
Jesus, at the end of his mission, made it clear that God is not only his father, but father of all, and God of all, and even his own God whom he worshipped throughout his earthly career. He said:
“I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” (John 20:17 RSV 1952)
The writer who is Paul also made it clear that any believer can address God as “Father.” He wrote:
"We cry, Abba, Father" (Romans 8:15 KJV 1611).
Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
“. . . Do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. (Matthew 23:1,9 NIV 1984)
According to Matthew, Jesus taught the crowds to call God ‘Father’. He said to them:
“This, then, is how you should pray: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name . . .’ ” (Matthew 6:9 NIV).

Jesus made it clear that he is not God when he said:
“Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18)
A man had ran up and knelt before Jesus and called him “Good Teacher.” Jesus used the opportunity to make it clear to people that they must not praise him more than a human being deserves to be praised.

Jesus depends on God for Authority: God depends on no one.
Jesus said:
“I can do nothing of my own authority” (John 5:30).
“I do as the Father has commanded me” (John 14:31 RSV).
Needless to say, God does not receive commands from anyone. Jesus said:
“The words that I say to you I do not speak of my own authority.” (John 14:10 RSV)
“I do nothing of my own authority but speak thus as the Father has taught me.” (John 8:28 RSV)
God has full authority, and full knowledge. He cannot be taught, but He teaches.

Jesus is not Equal to “The Father”
Jesus said:
“The Father is greater than I” (John 14:28 RSV).
People forget this and they say that Jesus is equal to the Father. Whom should we believe—Jesus or the people?

Jesus Does Not Know Everything
Speaking of the Last Day, Jesus said:
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only” (Matthew 24:36).

Did Jesus Raise Himself up?
God raised him up. (Acts 2:24)
Jesus did not have power to raise himself up. God had to raise him up, as the author of Acts says.


Jesus prayed to God: God prays to no one. Jesus prayed, saying:
“Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt.” (Mark 14:32)
Jesus fell on his face and prayed to God, begging God to save him from crucifixion. This also shows that Jesus had a will different from God’s will. The writers of Matthew, Mark, and Luke tell us that it was Jesus’s wish to be saved from crucifixion, but it was God’s will to let the crucifixion take place. This shows that Jesus had a will different from the will of God, at least for a moment. Therefore he was not God. He declared in a moment of desperation:
“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)

Jesus did not know the tree had no fruit
He [Jesus] was hungry. And on seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it , he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs (Mark 11 12-13).
When he saw that the tree had leaves, he thought that he might find fruit on it. But when he came up close to the tree he realised there were no fruits. After all, it was not even fig season.

Bible calls Jesus Servant of God
“Behold my servant whom I have chosen.” (Matthew 12:18 In this passage God calls Jesus His servant)
"The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus" (Acts 3:13).

For truly in this city there were gathered together against thy holy servant Jesus. . . (Acts 4:27).
Everyone, except for God, are God’s servants. Jesus, too, is God’s servant.

Who was real Worker of Miracles?
Bible says it was God who did the miracles through Jesus:
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (Acts 2:22 KJV)
People say that since Jesus worked many miracles, he must be God. But here we see that God did the miracles; Jesus was the instrument God used to accomplish His work. Jesus was a man whom God approved of. This means he was a righteous man.

Jesus cannot guarantee positions
“To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father” (Matthew 20:23).
Therefore if we want to secure our position with God in the life hereafter we must turn to God and ask Him.

A Misunderstood saying
I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)
People like to quote this saying, but they forget the following saying:
John 17:11: "Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."

This shows that what was meant was one in purpose, not one in substance as people think. The disciples could not become one human, but they can pursue the same goal. That is to say, they can be one in purpose, just as Jesus and the Father are one in purpose.

Did Jesus say everything John says he said?
Consider the following sayings of Jesus found in John's Gospel alone:
John 14:9: "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father."
John 6:35: "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life."
John 8:12: "I am the light of the world."
John 8:58: "Before Abraham was, I am."
John 10:7: "I am the door of the sheep."
John 11:25: "I am the resurrection, and the life."
John 14:6: "I am the way, the truth, and the life."
John 15:1: "I am the true vine."


Christian scholars tell us that if Jesus had made all these fantastic claims about himself, the first three gospels would surely have recorded them. Mark was written around 70 C.E., followed by Matthew and Luke somewhere between 80-90 C.E. John, written around 100 C.E., was the last of the four canonized gospels. The Christian scholar James Dunn writes in his book The Evidence for Jesus:

“If they were part of the original words of Jesus himself, how could it be that only John picked them up and none of the others? Call it scholarly skepticism if you like, but I find it almost incredible that such sayings should have been neglected had they been known as a feature of Jesus’ teaching. If the ‘I ams’ had been part of the original tradition, it is very hard indeed to explain why none of the other three evangelists made use of them.” (The Evidence for Jesus, p. 36)

Similarly, the New American Bible tells us in its introduction, under the heading How to Read Your Bible:
“It is difficult to know whether the words or sayings attributed to Jesus are written exactly as he spoke them. . . . The Church was so firmly convinced that . . . Jesus . . . taught through her, that she expressed her teaching in the form of Jesus’ sayings.” (St. Joseph Medium Size Edition, p.23)


What we have in John, then is what people were saying about Jesus at the time John was written (about 70 years after Jesus was raised up). The writer of John simply expressed those ideas as if Jesus had said them. Rev. James Dunn says further in his book that, almost certainly, the writer of the fourth gospel
“was not concerned with the sort of questions which trouble some Christians today — Did Jesus actually say this? Did he use these precise words? and so on.” (The Evidence for Jesus, p. 43)

Scholars have concluded that this gospel was originally written in a simple form. But this gospel was later on, as the New Jerusalem Bible says, “amplified and developed in several stages during the second half of the first century.” (The New Jerusalem Bible: Introduction to John, p. 1742)

It says further:
“It is today freely accepted that the fourth Gospel underwent a complex development before it reached its final form.” (p. 1742)
On a previous page, the same Bible says:
“It would seem that we have only the end-stage of a slow process that has brought together not only component parts of different ages, but also corrections, additions and sometimes even more than one revision of the same discourse.” (The New Jerusalem Bible, p. 1739)


The New American Bible says that most scholars “have come to the conclusion that the inconsistencies were probably produced by subsequent editing in which homogeneous materials were added to a shorter original.” (The New American Bible, Revised New Testament, p. 143)



The fact still remains that if you apply your logic you must hold all religions to the same standard. It would be hard and unclear for one to make an educated decision when they are already Bias to one.

 

[inspector]

"How about God creating Adam at the same time as Eve, and yet God created Eve out of Adam's rib?"
------------------------

I am not sure where you read this. Genesis 1:27 says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." Where does it say 'at the same time'?




"How about the question of whether or not God repents?"
-------------------------


Hebrews 9:14 says that God is without sin. Jesus did not sin. Without sin, there is no need for repentance.

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[inspector]

Lightbeing, most of those contradictions you have presented are due to a lack of knowledge regarding the biblical Trinity and basic soteriology. I have addressed most of those on another thread here on this site.




"The fact still remains that if you apply your logic you must hold all religions to the same standard. It would be hard and unclear for one to make an educated decision when they are already Bias to one."
----------------------

I have already addressed this also. The truth is the text of the Bible. Any deviation from the text is, therefore, false. Just because you refuse to acknowledge the evidence does not automatically invalidate the evidence. Your presuppositions are tainted with prejudice and you, by necessity, must dismiss all evidence to satisfy your presuppositions. This is called 'begging the question.' You are assuming what you are trying to prove.

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[inspector]

"Does God want children to die?"
----------------------------

Physically or spiritually? It is our nature as humans to die physically. Spiritually, God wants salvation for everyone. He offers the free gift of grace. However, we are saved by grace THROUGH faith in Him (Romans 5:1).





"Can God be found through reason alone?"
-----------------------------

If verses like these are in the Bible, what do you think? "Lean not on your own understanding." Also, "Now you see but a poor reflection, then you shall see clearly. Now you know in part, then you shall know fully."





"Do evildoers prosper?"
-----------------------------
The Bible tells that all have sinned. We are all sinners. However, sinners without salvation are given over to their passions. In plain English, eternal damnation.



"Do Christians need to follow Old Testament laws?"
------------------------------

Which laws?

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[LIGHTBEING]

Lightbeing, most of those contradictions you have presented are due to a lack of knowledge regarding the biblical Trinity and basic soteriology.

No it's not. I have a basic understanding of the Trinity and soteriology. These contradiction are pretty cut and dry. Why do Christians always try to dance around what is written in their book?

The truth is the text of the Bible

This is your opinion

Any deviation from the text is, therefore, false.

Question, how can you be sure that the Bible today is not a deviation from the original Books in the Bible?

Simply because you refuse to acknowledge the evidence does not automatically invalidate the evidence.

What is this evidence you speak of?

. Your presuppositions are tainted with prejudice and you, by necessity, must dismiss all evidence to satisfy your presuppositions. This is called 'begging the question.'

Again, I don't presume anything. I don't claim to know all the answers or the Truth. Nobody should. I keep my mind open to endless amounts of possibilities. I hold everything to the same standard, unlike you. This little debate hasn't satified anything. Questions will still go unanswered. You can try to prove that you are correct by examining Exhibit A. The Bible but have failed to acknowlegde that Exhibit B. The Quran has the same effectiveness. You must hold everything to the same standard when determining the truth. Your mind is closed, Bias and made up already.

 

[inspector]

"This is your opinion"
-----------------------

........based on and derived from valid evidence supporting the existence of God. You simply choose to dismiss the evidence because it clashes with your presuppositions.



"Question, how can you be sure that the Bible today is not a deviation from the original Books in the Bible?"
-----------------------

.........because there are over 24,000 original manuscripts that support the textual accuracy of the Bible. Once again, you simply choose to dismiss this archaeological evidence because it clashes with your presuppositions.





"What is this evidence you speak of?"
-------------------------

Research my posts on other threads.




"You must hold everything to the same standard when determining the truth."
--------------------------

And what is this standard? Define this standard you use to evaluate all things.

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[EvilPoet]

Question about ages in the Bible

In the Bible people seemed to live for a very long time.
For example, according to Genesis 9:29 Noah lived for
950 years. How is that possible?

 

[inspector]

"In the Bible people seemed to live for a very long time.
For example, according to Genesis 9:29 Noah lived for
950 years. How is that possible?"
------------------------------------------


This is a good question, and one I have pondered on myself from time to time. The bottom line is that we will likely never know for sure. Also, there are many theories regarding this topic. Having reviewed several theories, I have subscribed to the conclusion that after the Fall, the genetic line of Adam and his descendents was very pure, so their health would have been incredible. Living that long would not have been a problem. Also, some theologians think that there was a canopy of water that engulfed the entire earth and that it was released at the time of the flood. "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life , in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened," (Gen. 7:11). The "floodgates of the sky" are sometimes alluded to as great amounts of water suspended in the sky. Also, no rain is recorded in the Bible until after the flood which seems to support this idea. This canopy, if it is true, might have provided some sort of protection from the sun's harmful rays. We can't know for sure and it is only a theory. Nevertheless, after the flood, the lifespan of people on earth was drastically reduced. "Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years," (Gen. 6:3). Whether or not this reduced canopy had any affect on human lifespan may never be known.

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[EvilPoet]

inspector: Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it. I still think
Genesis (and a whole lotta other stuff) is more storytelling than
truth. I have read Genesis many times and always come to the
same conclusion. If something comes along to change that view
I will reconsider. Until then - my opinion remains the same.

 

[inspector]

"Until then - my opinion remains the same."
------------------------

Agreed. Some parts of the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, are difficult to understand. However, regarding the Flood, there is secular, scientific evidence supporting a massive flood consistent with the biblical timeline.........in case you were wondering. ;-)

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[Xelios]

"Some parts of the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, are difficult to understand. However, regarding the Flood, there is secular, scientific evidence supporting a massive flood consistent with the biblical timeline.........in case you were wondering. ;-) "

ooohhh... don't get me started on that whole flood thing

 

[OldSchoolThinker]

In case anyone doesnt know, there are two separate creation stories in Genesis if you read it carefully WITHOUT being biased towards it because of your beliefs. The reason why there are two creation stories is because they came from ancient sumerian and babylonian myths predating Christianity over a thousand years. If you dont believe me, you can look it up. It was an archaelogical find. Myths change through cultural transmission.

A person has to be open-minded when it comes to certain things, especially religion, when your beliefs and emotions overshadow your judgement and common sense. You cant be biased. Because if you are biased, you want be enlightened by certain truths.

 

[Zero]

I normally try to keep quiet during these things, but I'll make a minor point to agree with inspector on the Adam/Eve ribbing event. I'd say inspector knows what he's talking about there.

Though for the REST...

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

 

[Xev]

*Stares at Inspector in disbelief*

Yikes, where do you find that kind of time?

The Bible tells us that there is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8). However, it also mentions "other gods." For example there is Adrammelech and Anammelech (2 Kings 17:31), Asherah (1 Kings 18:19), Baal (Judges 3:1), Chemosh (Num. 21:29), Dagon (1 Sam. 5:2), Molech (Lev. 18:21; 20:2- 5), etc. The Bible is not contradicting itself. When the Bible speaks of other gods it is speaking of false gods that have no true existence. Gal. 4:8 says, "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods." See also, Isaiah 37:19 and Jeremiah 2:11. God tells us that he alone is the true God and that all of the invented gods of man do not exist except in their own minds. So, we can see that the Bible is not contradicting itself regarding how many gods there are in existence. There is only one.

Ex.15:11
"Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods?"

Ex.18:11
"Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods."

1 Sam.28:13
"And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

Jer.10:11
"The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens."

"Does God want children to die?"
----------------------------

Physically or spiritually? It is our nature as humans to die physically.

Physically, He puts Gilles du Rais and Jeffrey Dahlmer to shame.

God killed all the children of Sodom and Gomorrah.
God ordered the Israelites to kill all of the children in the cities that they invaded.
God killed all the children on earth (except Noah's) during the Flood.
God promised to kill all the children of Samaria.
God ordered Saul to kill all of the Amalekite children.

Spiritually, God wants salvation for everyone. He offers the free gift of grace. However, we are saved by grace THROUGH faith in Him (Romans 5:1).

How can a five year old understand God if brilliant academics have been unable to understand Him for over 2000 years?

Thus, any child who dies must go to hell.

Is that right?

"Can God be found through reason alone?"
-----------------------------

If verses like these are in the Bible, what do you think? "Lean not on your own understanding." Also, "Now you see but a poor reflection, then you shall see clearly. Now you know in part, then you shall know fully."

Job 11:7.

"Do evildoers prosper?"
-----------------------------
The Bible tells that all have sinned. We are all sinners. However, sinners without salvation are given over to their passions. In plain English, eternal damnation.

That's nice, but it still doesn't explain why Job 12:6 says "The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly." and Psalm 34:21 says:
"Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate."

And if we are God's creation, how can our sin offend Him, since He created us to be sinners?

Therefore, sin freely, and remember that Satan loves you and has a great plan for your life.

 

[Jenyar]

This tread is a good example how logic can murder facts. Just because Y can be logically demonstrated to follow X, does not preclude A - W or even Z from following X as well. Otherwise language would not have been possible

There is an absolte truth, but I believe only God knows enough (all) of it, and that people can only have parts, shadows, and revelations of it. As a matter of fact, I strongly suspect that 'truth' can never be anything but 'relative' to humans - to whom everything is subjective. Only God can have an objective, absolute view of the WHOLE truth. We will always leave something out, because we simply cannot imagine enough to be aware of everything.

BUT. From the Bible we have all the truth we need on which to base our faith. The Old Testament was is use by Jews ever since they came to know that there was only one true God. How did they come to know this when the Bible didn't exist as such? They were living lives that did not depend on anything but survival, and God provided that survival. The Old Testament tells their story, which is completely human and relevant - they had wars, we have wars, there were atrocities just like now. And most of all, we have accounts by people who had faith in God about what God did.

The apostles had this written history of the Jews - the collection of people that God chose to carry His covenant with all of humanity. The Bible doesn't presume to be a "handbook for the use of conversion" or even try to prove that God exists. It knows the truth, that God does exist, and goes on from there. When Paul went on his missions, he did not preach the Bible - he used it to validate Jesus' history - coming from God - and fed it back to the Jews who held to it. But more than anything Paul and the apostles taught Jesus as Saviour. Instead of sacrificing dead animals, people were told to sacrifice thanks and praise. For what? For love received - not for truth received.

The truth was and still is irrefutable, but the means of conveying that truth has always created controversy. It goes against people's nature. It teaches the unknowable. It asks people to see the invisible. If this weren't possible, Christianity would have been no better than New Age or whatever religion is relevant to what people need to believe the time.

Xev: those gods were man-made and dependent on man for existence. Their is only one God who is self-sufficient and capable of being heart, body and soul so completely that each characteristic can exist of its own accord - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - yet still be the one "I am".

 

[Xev]

Jenyar:
Perhaps God is truth - the sum total of the universe, the ultimate truth?

That is, what if God's possession of truth is the same thing as It's being truth?

(No, I am not tripped out on acid)

Xev: those gods were man-made and dependent on man for existence. Their is only one God who is self- sufficient and capable of being heart, body and soul so completely that each characteristic can exist of its own accord - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - yet still be the one "I am".

Perhaps. But the Bible makes it sound very much like there are other Gods.

See Jenyar, you're an athiest too, you just believe in one more God than I do.

Or three more Gods. Or three in one more Gods. What the hell, Satan still loves you.

 

[Jenyar]

Another thing: the further you look back, the more simple things look. It is a wonder that such an old religion can retain so many complexities intact, yet remain so simple in its intent.

Those events that you mention are so distant that they almost become metaphors - like parables. But even though their meaning is more important than their truth, their meaning does not diminish their truth, but enhances it. Tell me, Xev, when you have a child someday - will it be more important that he or she knows every last detail of your psychology and motives for your action, or that she knows, feels and sees that you love her?

You don't believe the Bible or it's message, so stop using it to refute the very thing it testifies about.

How can a five year old understand God if brilliant academics have been unable to understand Him for over 2000 years?

Thus, any child who dies must go to hell.

Exactly. The way to knowing God comes from Him, not from yourself. Do you think God wants or permits only people with an IQ over 200 to believe in Him?
Matthew 18:3
And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven..."

1 Samuel 28
13 The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?"
The woman said, "I see a spirit [or see spirits ; or see gods] coming up out of the ground."
14 "What does he look like?" he asked.
"An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

Oops - it wasn't a god after all.

Jer.10:11
"The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens."

I wonder, did you even read the rest of the Jer.10?

..."Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good."

There is an old story, that once Abraham was in his father's shop, who was a craftsman. The shop was full of the gods that were worshipped at the time and were commissioned to be made. Abraham's father warned him explicitly not to touch or come near them as they were holy and powerful gods.
But Abraham went in and destroyed the idols. When his father came in and saw the wreckage he was furious. "What happened here!?" he asked. "The gods had a disagreement and fought among each other," Abraham replied. "But that's ridiculous! They're just dead wood and metal - they can't fight!"

and I would have said "Touché"

 

[Xev]

Jenyar:

Those events that you mention are so distant that they almost become metaphors - like parables. But even though their meaning is more important than their truth, their meaning does not diminish their truth, but enhances it. Tell me, Xev, when you have a child someday - will it be more important that he or she knows every last detail of your psychology and motives for your action, or that she knows, feels and sees that you love her?

I'm not going to have children.

You don't believe the Bible or it's message, so stop using it to refute the very thing it testifies about.

I'm proving the Bible to be contradictory. This is simple logic.

If you say "A giant purple elephant lives on my roof" and I say "how can there be an elephant on your roof", am I thus believing in giant purple elephants?

Oh, and don't tell me what to do and what not to do, because you sound like a real twit when you do.

Exactly. The way to knowing God comes from Him, not from yourself. Do you think God wants or permits only people with an IQ over 200 to believe in Him?

So children go to hell, just 'cause they died at an inoppertune time.

That's, ah, really great.
Have I mentioned that your God is a sadist?

I wonder, did you even read

Yup! Fourth grade level!

the rest of the Jer.10?

Kinda. It's pretty boring and I got distracted by a - OOH! A BRIGHT SHINEY OBJECT!

Okay, I'll concede the "multiple Gods" thingy, because, you know, I still have about 150 contradictions left.