Astronomy 101, Physics 101, Philosophy 101, Logic 101, Maths 101, Hell to be honest with you reading his posts make me believe he hasn't finished fourth grade yet.
Why Athiesim is a self defeating belief
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Astronomy 101, Physics 101, Philosophy 101, Logic 101, Maths 101, Hell to be honest with you reading his posts make me believe he hasn't finished fourth grade yet.
Come one guys, think a little more, god has to exist, that's an evidence.
If you do not see that, I think you will still be able to live but you will miss one beautiful aspect of life.
Explain me how you can be conscious of this world.
Science cannot answer this question because the answer lies in god
If you do not see that, I think you will still be able to live but you will miss one beautiful aspect of life.
Explain me how you can be conscious of this world.
Science cannot answer this question because the answer lies in god
What do you mean?
Science is not powerful enough to explain our feelings (qualia), the most basic thing in life.
If you defined god as the principle by which you can have feeling (qualia)
then god exist
Please note that this definition is related to (I do not go in the details here) the one used in ancient times.
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Science explains the existence of consciousness if not all the details. It is a trait we evolved for self-preservation. There is no evidence of God anywhere.
I am sorry but you do not know anything about what consciousness is.
I request you to look on the net for "qualia"
When you are talking about a traits that evolved you are talking about the cognitive abilities and the brain mechanism that will make you do smart decision regarding the situation. But why are they accompanied by consciousness? This is the problem that science CANNOT answer.
ronan,
You effectively asserted that consciousness is the result of a fantasy object you call god.
And you are trying to imply it never will which is not a valid conclusion. But the absence of our understanding gives no basis to suggest a fantasy supernatural entity is involved.
Which is speculative nonsense.
No , I defined god (not a fantasy object but a word) as signifiing the "thing"from which conciousness arise
It will never be explained by what we have now in science, the principle of supervenience is not powerful enough to explain consciousness because all the laws of the universe could be there without the existence of consciousness.
AND if we want to explain consciousness, we will have to add somethign, this what I call god.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
You mean the brain ?
Another God of the gaps argument. I don't think consciousness is that much of a scientific problem. It's a function of a complex brain, and all apes have it. It's a reality modeling engine, and part of that model is the self, it's not even all that accurate a model. It's extremely naive to declare that it's not a phenomenon science can address. What's the mystery? It's made of information. It probably arose as a result of the need to live in a complex social environment. One would have to rule out all plausable naturalistic explanations before the supernatural one could have a chance.
Ronan,
The word god represents a concept that has no factual basis but is a creation of man’s imagination, i.e. a fantasy. You can turn the fantasy into a reality by demonstrating the existence of a god, until then you have nothing but a fantasy – deal with it. .
You cannot know enough about the nuances of science to assert a “never” condition as authoritative. This is just your personal opinion.
Speculative nonsense again. We simply do not yet understand consciousness and we need to continue to study it. Advances in medical technology are increasing our ability to understand how the brain operates. It is very premature at this point to suggest the brain is not the cause of consciousness.
That’s simply idiotic. All you are saying is that there is something complex we don’t understand and that a fantasy entity is the cause.
All of you makes again the same mistake:
The complex behavior resulting by the brain could be indeed be explained by neuroscience but why it is accompanied by consciousness.
Please before continuing telling the same thing and then insulting me, check out on the net "qualia" I don't want to lose time to explain you something that is evident. (please refer to the argument cited at the end of this reply)
The idea is to give the word god (which is always a creation of humans minds) a factual basis: the existence of consciousness, so please stop putting it on a garbage by repeating the word fantasy. You can say that for every scientific concept as well, particles are fantasy for example, but it is still useful to use the word because it represent something that happem in the world.
Please keep polite, we are all on the same level and to say someone is stupid make the other believe you are even more stupid. It is a vicious circle.
In philosophy, there is debate over qualia and you will find many argument including JAckson's argument (What Mary did not know), Chalmers'zombie argument, Nagel's argument (what is it like to be a bat) and probably many other that really suggest (if not prove) that consciousness is not explanable by today science and something more is needed .
Come back when informed please, else the debate will become a ping pong games without learning for both of us .
Monkey Mak33
Registered Member
Okie dokie just stating a fact that i had stumbled upon earlier today and researched
kkk so the book of genisis. Not SAYING THIS IS A PROVEN THEORY BUT IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY ACURATE. understand this. im not going for either side, but here it goes. ok so we are in eon 8, this is a fact now there are 7 eons before us, no what if in the bible it says "it took 7 days for god to make earth" however it also says "time does not exsist to god so it would have to be 7 of some measurement, now in the time it takes to make a planet and solar system and universe. id have to say eons would be the best period of time to measure it in agreed. so 7days and 7eons
we have this straight. Now in the bible it says he created the universe, then sun, then earth, then water, then plants, then animals, and finally humans. All appear to be in the correct order. Just stating something that i think to be eerily similar to that which is of when they made this they had but simple simple astronomy and thought that the earth still revolved around the sun. These quotes from the book of gensis seem to be eerily acurate when you lengthen the time sequence to eons. My theory being of 1 of the days, the creation of the universe taking up about 6.5 eons or so and the rest of the days taking up about .5 (approximately, not exact terms.) as i had stated before, without doing any reasearch foolishly, was that no other planet had water, this happens to be false, but what is also considered true is that none of the 1,407,087^ 10 (the number keeps going up so no number is exact) planets have life that were found. Not meaning there isnt any more life on any other planet. So... yeah thats all i really have to say. the above information was thoroughly researched by me and it was painstakingly hard. so if you dont agree id at least like a little gratitude for the research Thank you for your time in reading this. now in saying this i am not proving athiesm wrong or right but there was a good chance given the ancient text that could have not used astronomy and not developed by astronomers to be very very accurate so in so im saying there is a chance there might be no god so athiests might be right but there is also a chance that there may be a god so thiests are also correct, or both could be wrong whichever you prefer, herein saying thiesim beliefs are not self defeating nor is athiesm , its kind of which side do you choose to believe in.
I hope ive at least lessened the tension between the two groups.
adios-Monkey Mak33-
kkk so the book of genisis. Not SAYING THIS IS A PROVEN THEORY BUT IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY ACURATE. understand this. im not going for either side, but here it goes. ok so we are in eon 8, this is a fact now there are 7 eons before us, no what if in the bible it says "it took 7 days for god to make earth" however it also says "time does not exsist to god so it would have to be 7 of some measurement, now in the time it takes to make a planet and solar system and universe. id have to say eons would be the best period of time to measure it in agreed. so 7days and 7eons
we have this straight. Now in the bible it says he created the universe, then sun, then earth, then water, then plants, then animals, and finally humans. All appear to be in the correct order. Just stating something that i think to be eerily similar to that which is of when they made this they had but simple simple astronomy and thought that the earth still revolved around the sun. These quotes from the book of gensis seem to be eerily acurate when you lengthen the time sequence to eons. My theory being of 1 of the days, the creation of the universe taking up about 6.5 eons or so and the rest of the days taking up about .5 (approximately, not exact terms.) as i had stated before, without doing any reasearch foolishly, was that no other planet had water, this happens to be false, but what is also considered true is that none of the 1,407,087^ 10 (the number keeps going up so no number is exact) planets have life that were found. Not meaning there isnt any more life on any other planet. So... yeah thats all i really have to say. the above information was thoroughly researched by me and it was painstakingly hard. so if you dont agree id at least like a little gratitude for the research
Thank you for your time in reading this. now in saying this i am not proving athiesm wrong or right but there was a good chance given the ancient text that could have not used astronomy and not developed by astronomers to be very very accurate so in so im saying there is a chance there might be no god so athiests might be right but there is also a chance that there may be a god so thiests are also correct, or both could be wrong whichever you prefer, herein saying thiesim beliefs are not self defeating nor is athiesm , its kind of which side do you choose to believe in. I hope ive at least lessened the tension between the two groups.
adios-Monkey Mak33-
Monkey Mak33
Registered Member
and im not sure that thats english michael but if it happens to be more power to you lol
If a biblical day is an eon, then there is a problem. He made plants at least an eon before the sun, which is required for them to live, and flowering plants before the insects required to pollinate them. Besides, we already know that animals existed for a long time before flowers came about.
god rejects pretty much everyone. you really think every buddhist deserves to go to hell? what are their crimes? not appealing to god's ego? and every homosexual? why does god care what people do with their dicks? how can you describe someone so vindictive (eternal torture for disobeying him) as just and merciful, and worship him? you're willing to blindly trust a dude you've already said you can't ever understand the reasoning of? what makes you think he's benevolent other than an old book filled with intolerance, violence and contradictions?
i understand that that pride is a sin, and that all christians need to be the sheep of our lord the shepherd, and do exactly as our priests tell us to. but isn't it a little convenient for the priests? look at the power the catholic church has accumulated. its given them reasons to have wars, inquisitions, and allowed control of public opinion. religion is the perfect tool for maintaining social stability. i wouldn't mind being the sheep of god if i didn't think he was a dick, and i didn't think religions were man-made wastes of time.
kkk so the book of genisis. Not SAYING THIS IS A PROVEN THEORY BUT IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY ACURATE. understand this. im not going for either side, but here it goes. ok so we are in eon 8, this is a fact now there are 7 eons before us, no what if in the bible it says "it took 7 days for god to make earth" however it also says "time does not exsist to god so it would have to be 7 of some measurement, now in the time it takes to make a planet and solar system and universe. id have to say eons would be the best period of time to measure it in agreed. so 7days and 7eons
we have this straight. Now in the bible it says he created the universe, then sun, then earth, then water, then plants, then animals, and finally humans. All appear to be in the correct order. Just stating something that i think to be eerily similar to that which is of when they made this they had but simple simple astronomy and thought that the earth still revolved around the sun. These quotes from the book of gensis seem to be eerily acurate when you lengthen the time sequence to eons. My theory being of 1 of the days, the creation of the universe taking up about 6.5 eons or so and the rest of the days taking up about .5 (approximately, not exact terms.) as i had stated before, without doing any reasearch foolishly, was that no other planet had water, this happens to be false, but what is also considered true is that none of the 1,407,087^ 10 (the number keeps going up so no number is exact) planets have life that were found. Not meaning there isnt any more life on any other planet. So... yeah thats all i really have to say. the above information was thoroughly researched by me and it was painstakingly hard. so if you dont agree id at least like a little gratitude for the research
I hope ive at least lessened the tension between the two groups.
adios-Monkey Mak33-
what so because the numbers of days and eons are the same its more likely god created everything? how about the stupidity of the bible in saying it took god a number of days to create stuff? the first day he makes however many million galaxies, the next day he makes one star? i mean he must have already made our solar system then, why not chuck earth in? and as for making all life etc., all you have to do is make a single organism, skip a few billion years while natural selection does its work. god is noob if you ask me.
ricky gervais' opinion of creationism. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEj3g5GOYA i reckon its hilarious
Hahaha, I havent been to this forum in half a year and its still comprised of people trying to convince each other their beliefs are wrong.
The threats of hell are especially amusing, but please that wont scare anyone here.
In an attempt to find some middleground, both religion and science are simply a means to finding personal truth. And that is what life comes down to, personal truth. And heres the kicker, ITS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYBODY.
Maybe we need more classes teaching tolerance in schools.
The threats of hell are especially amusing, but please that wont scare anyone here.
In an attempt to find some middleground, both religion and science are simply a means to finding personal truth. And that is what life comes down to, personal truth. And heres the kicker, ITS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYBODY.
Maybe we need more classes teaching tolerance in schools.
When Religion suggests things contrary to the evidence, then it undermines it as a source of truth.
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