Where is the ACLU?

[Challenger78]

Often information given by a small percentage of extremely religious (of any religion) can be incorrect. Give Young people (like me ) some credit, we are capable of making our own choices.

 

[sandy]

I didn't say to keep anyone stupid. I think teaching them that perversion is ok is child abuse.

 

[Bells]

I think it's disgusting to teach little kids about condoms and perversion. Let their parents teach them when it's appropriate.

So you don't think teaching a 12 year old who is already having sex, about safe sex is right? You claim you have nothing against homosexuals, just the act of homosexuality rolleyes: ), but you think teaching children to be tolerant of all human beings, regardless of their race, religion or sexuality, is somehow wrong?

I don't want the future generation tolerating vile sexual behavior.

So you want the future generations to be intolerant? Nice.

Unprotected sex with an un-tested partner can result in something quite vile for the sexually active kids. I think it's best to teach them about sex and about safe sex (in all its aspects from abstinence to condoms and the pill, etc) so that they are aware and not stupid.

I don't want them thinking it's ok to have premarital sex.

This coming from you, the woman who claims she has never been married, but then a few weeks back happily exclaimed to not be a virgin? To quote Baron.. "hippo-critical".

I don't want them turning out like the losers of the 70s-2000s who think it's ok to be a skank.

Ok. I am not even going to touch this one. You make it too easy.

Let them be children without poisoning their minds with liberal cr@p.

So safe sex and teaching them about tolerance is now "liberal crap"?

Ermm ok.

I know enough about the ACLU to think they're about as American as alQaeda.

Ok. Before you make such statements, have the balls to back it up. Because at the moment you are coming off as a ranting religious fundamentalist.

And the sooner we return to the days of Christian behavior in schools, the sooner the schools will rise out of the gutter.

Yes. Bring back the days when the priests and pastors could abuse little kids and when those little kids spoke up, they were treated like the devil and threatened. Is that good Christian behaviour? Or is it good Christian behaviour to torment and bash homosexuals? Is it good Christian behaviour to bomb abortion clinics? Is it good Christian behaviour to not teach science as it ought to be taught? Is it good Christian behaviour to teach to hate and be willing to fight to the death (you know, your stance on certain issues)?

You wouldn't know "good Christian behaviour" if it came and bit you on your backside.

When they took God, prayer, and discipline out of schools, the schools became cesspools.

No. When they took religion out of State schools, science jumped for joy and kids actually got an education and did not come off sounding like fanatical religious yokels.

The reason State schools are in such a state is because they get less funding. Maybe if your precious Bush Government spent a bit more on education and less on the war, your future generation might have a chance.

 

[pjdude1219]

I didn't say to keep anyone stupid. I think teaching them that perversion is ok is child abuse.

and i think dening them info that will allow them to make more informed and safer choices is child abuse

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

I didn't say to keep anyone stupid. I think teaching them that perversion is ok is child abuse.

Ok, so lets keep them in the dark and let them die of herpes... Sex is natural, not a perversion.
A perversion is to teach kids that sex is wrong and evil.

 

[Nasor]

I'm guessing since it's Buddhism and not Christianity, the ACLU is staying out of it. And as long as they don’t say ‘God bless America’ anything goes.

More of your usual bullshit. If they started actually sponsoring Buddhism - by teaching the kids that reincarnation or karma was real, for example - the ACLU would indeed be all over them. This is no more religious than the "moments of silence" that schools often have.

Public schools will teach Buddhism, Hinduism, or Islam. Just not Christianity or Judaism. No surprises here...

I call BS. There is a huge difference between the state teaching children about a religion in school vs. the state actively sponsoring a religion. I firmly believe that every child should be taught the basics of all the world's major religions in their social studies classes. Religion is a huge part of our world and plays a major role in world politics. Since religion seems to be the cause of about half of what goes on in the world, there is simply no way to be an educated, responsible person who understands world events without understanding the religions that motivate people.

Can you provide any examples of public schools teaching children to believe in Buddhism, Hinduism, or Islam? Or are you simply assuming that schools are trying to convert children to other religions simply by acknowledging that these other religions exist?

 

[one_raven]

More of your usual bullshit. If they started actually sponsoring Buddhism - by teaching the kids that reincarnation or karma was real, for example - the ACLU would indeed be all over them. This is no more religious than the "moments of silence" that schools often have.

I call BS. There is a huge difference between the state teaching children about a religion in school vs. the state actively sponsoring a religion. I firmly believe that every child should be taught the basics of all the world's major religions in their social studies classes. Religion is a huge part of our world and plays a major role in world politics. Since religion seems to be the cause of about half of what goes on in the world, there is simply no way to be an educated, responsible person who understands world events without understanding the religions that motivate people.

Can you provide any examples of public schools teaching children to believe in Buddhism, Hinduism, or Islam? Or are you simply assuming that schools are trying to convert children to other religions simply by acknowledging that these other religions exist?

She stopped talking about this when I pointed these things out to her.
She knows she has no leg to stand on, so she changed the subject to sex education.

 

[Challenger78]

What i don't get is that she didn't come up with the examples that raven and Nasor ask for...calling evidence or a opinion Bullshit isn't a personal attack on the person, its on the evidence/opinion. So i don't get why sandy keeps claiming on about personal attacks.. while some of them are, most are just asking for examples....I am too btw.

 

[John J. Bannan]

Sounds like the school is simply adapting a buddhists technique to their own purposes. Of course, if the child doesn't have a well of "loving kindness" to draw upon during meditation - it seems like a pretty pointless exercise. After all, the children who can imagine "loving kindness" aren't going to be the problem in the school yard. Anyway, what's wrong with trying something new? Are you the type that goes to the same restaurant and orders the same dish every time?

 

[Nasor]

I don't even read most of your posts or respond to them. I quit responding to posts with personal attacks. The only reason I'm responding to this one is because someone PMd it to me.

If your ego is so fragile that you can't handle a “vicious personal insult” like someone casually calling one of your opinions bullshit, I don't think you're going to have much of a future on the Internet.

You seem to have a habit of starting threads in which you make bold, inflammatory statements, but then refusing to engage in any actual reasoned, analytical discussion. When you make a bold statement and defend it against the criticisms of others you are furthering the goals of the board by generating lively discussion. But when you make controversial statements and then simply refuse to back them up, provide sources/examples, or respond to other’s criticism, you are basically just littering the forum.

So…in your opening post you made the interesting claim that this sort of “meditation” constitutes religious indoctrination by the school, and that the ACLU is hypocritical in not stepping in to oppose it. Now the counter-point has been made this it is in fact not religious indoctrination, that it is perfectly secular, and that there is no reason why the ACLU should oppose it. Now would you like to engage in an actual discussion by providing some sort of response to these criticisms of your opening post, or are you just here to spam the forum with threads in which you make controversial claims that you refuse to actually support?

 

[SkinWalker]

MOD NOTE: Off-topic banter deleted.

 

[madanthonywayne]

The reason State schools are in such a state is because they get less funding. Maybe if your precious Bush Government spent a bit more on education and less on the war, your future generation might have a chance.

Public schools get more funding than private schools and do much less with it. Funding is not the issue. The issue is discipline.

At many schools, teachers have no power to enforce the rules and so have no control of the classroom. You can't spank the kids, you can't flunk the kids, you can't even mark their anwers wrong with a red pen! This allows a few hooligans to disrupt the entire class and prevents everyone from learning.

At my son's public school, the parents are behind the teachers and they don't tolerate crap. There are no fights, no drugs, no profanity. At a first offence, your child is sent to reform school for a day. Repeated infractions result in increased sentences up to permanent expulsion.

My son even got sent there for a day for going on an internet forum much like this one at the school library. Someone monitors what's on all the screens and saw a thread where someone made reference to a "gay nigger". I was informed he was in trouble for circumventing their internet filter and going on an inappropriate discussion board (It was yourthemannowdog.com or maybe ytmnd.com).

Anyway, the school is consistently ranked as one of the ten best in the state.

Meanwhile, Washington DC spends way more per pupil then our school district and has one of the worst schools in the country.

The schools need more discipline and better teachers, not more money.

 

[John99]

The Muslims can have their prayer room
The Christiants too
The atheist can have theirs and do what they do: make paper airplanes and talk about goo.

ha ha ha, jk, i couldnt help it.

 

[spidergoat]

Public schools will teach Buddhism, Hinduism, or Islam. Just not Christianity or Judaism. No surprises here...

They can teach Christianity or Judaism in the context of comparative religion, not as scientific fact.

 

[Michael]

IAlso, do you think that schools should provide Muslim students time from class and an available empty room available, one time a day, to pray their Zuhr prayer?

If public - nope.

Should schools give holidays for Muslims on Eid ul Adha and Eid ul Fitr as they allow for Jews, even though there are as much Jews as Muslims in America (7 million)?

Individual counties can have whatever days off they want so long as they have a certain number of public school days in total. In my old school we did NOT have Martin Luther King's Day but in the city those schools did have a day off. Make sense?

Do Muslim girls have the right to wear headscarves in schools?

Yes

Do you support it?

Personally no. Although I do think school uniforms could be a good option in the US.


One thing I don't get is why do Muslims pick such a conspicuous symbol for their religion. It's like they MUST stand out. Then complain when people bag them for standing out. Jews have a little hat. Xians have their little X. But, Muslims have to have a head to toe, sometimes covering the eyes, gown. Talk about over the top! Jesus Christ. And don't tell me some fat 60 year old grandma post-5 kids is some sort of sexual temptation. If it were truely about sexual temptation then a) men would ALSO be covered from head to toe and b) obese 65 year old women would be naked.

Michael

 

[one_raven]

One thing I don't get is why do Muslims pick such a conspicuous symbol for their religion. It's like they MUST stand out. Then complain when people bag them for standing out. Jews have a little hat. Xians have their little X. But, Muslims have to have a head to toe, sometimes covering the eyes, gown. Talk about over the top! Jesus Christ. And don't tell me some fat 60 year old grandma post-5 kids is some sort of sexual temptation. If it were truely about sexual temptation then a) men would ALSO be covered from head to toe and b) obese 65 year old women would be naked.

Michael

You're right.
They did it to fuck with Americans and Europeans.

 

[Challenger78]

Men aren't allowed to expose their legs unless absolutely necessary. so in essence they do have to cover up.

 

[Nasor]

Public schools get more funding than private schools and do much less with it. Funding is not the issue.

This is true. The US spends a lot more on education per student than most other countries. I believe the average in the US is $5k/year per student. Even though we're spending more money, our children seem to be learning less.

The issue is discipline.

I think the main problem is apathy on the part of the parents. A child can get a perfectly good education from a poor, over-crowded school if the parents care enough to make sure they do their homework, make them study for tests, reward them for doing well and punish them for doing poorly, etc. The discipline problem also goes back to the parents not caring. If kids knew that they would be punished at home for misbehaving in school, the school wouldn’t have any trouble enforcing discipline.

 

[peta9]

I think it's disgusting to teach little kids about condoms and perversion. Let their parents teach them when it's appropriate.

I don't want the future generation tolerating vile sexual behavior. I don't want them thinking it's ok to have premarital sex. I don't want them turning out like the losers of the 70s-2000s who think it's ok to be a skank.

Let them be children without poisoning their minds with liberal cr@p.

I know enough about the ACLU to think they're about as American as alQaeda.

And the sooner we return to the days of Christian behavior in schools, the sooner the schools will rise out of the gutter. When they took God, prayer, and discipline out of schools, the schools became cesspools.

You know nothing about how people really are. Explain to me why there are as many immoral, hypocritical and sexually perverted people born in the conservative 40's and 50's??? How did this happen?

Vile sexual behavior, fornication and infidelity seems to have little to do with taking up religion. You know why?? Because moral people do moral things and immoral are going to indulge in immoral acts anyways by finding an excuse.

 

[madanthonywayne]

Vile sexual behavior, fornication and infidelity seems to have little to do with taking up religion. You know why?? Because moral people do moral things and immoral are going to indulge in immoral acts anyways by finding an excuse.

So you're saying that society has no impact on their behavior. This coming from the same person who excused the Virginia Tech shooter and blamed it on "society"?

In a decadent society, such as ours, people will feel much more free to indulge their every whim. Of course there will always be some people engaging in bad behavior regardless of the state of society in general. But fewer will in a society with strong morals than in a decadent "anything goes" society.