Where are the Aliens ?

Mental lock-up...pah-leaze. I should have specified that I was interested in "reasonable" possibilities. And you are looking to the imaginations of sci-fi writers, and ignoring the true testimony of hundreds of thousands of people around the world? Do I have that right? Isn't it rather obvious that they are NOT just observing? I have a feeling that as "advanced" as they are, and if they just wanted to observe, we wouldn't be made aware of it. People are experiencing all kinds of freaky shit. Haven't you read anything regarding alien contact or abductions? Read some of these testamonials. I just can't believe that you are willing to blatently ignore them. You know, there are people who are locked up, or on serious medications for mental problems, and the people that are testifying to this stuff, are not those people. Does that mean anything to you?

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God loves you and so do I!
 
First of all let's stop thinking that Aliens are afraid of us. That is just an other illusion of us that we could harm those guys while they are cruising the vast distances between the stars, their military power must be equally devolopped. Besides what if the land with a billion ships at the same time, would there be a lot of opposition do you think ?

About the mental presence and controll that they would have. This is not consistent with the "observations" that they are physical beings and fly physical sausers. Why would they use those crude material spaceships if they can project their mind where ever they want and do what ever they want with it ? Then they might as well stay home and come here in spirit !

Skepticus i would appreaciate if you would stop raising so many smokescrean around them, you keep talking like they are the mythical demons that Lori is talking about while you want to proof that it are beings from an other planet. As strange as they may be, they still live in the same universe as we are or they certainly have to if they want to abduct people who are living here ! So there are some things that we have in common ! If they are demons like Lori says then we have an entirly new discussion and I suggest we go and take it further in the Religion thread.

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we are midgets standing on the backs of giants,
Plato
 
H-Kon, thanks for your geography lesson, but the statue I was referring to is appropriately titled, "Mannekin Pis" or the pissing BOY, not man, and is located in Brussels, not in Norway - but good guess anyway - you get points for trying.

Plato, I would appreciate it if you would do two things:

1. Explain in more detail what you mean when you use the term "smokescreen" as it pertains to my comments on this topic.

2. Refrain from "requesting" that I curtail my views or opinions so that they are satisfactory to you. That is tantamount to saying that you would appreciate it if I conform to your idea of what an acceptable post is. This is an open board for debate, and last time I checked, open ideas/comments were still tolerated as long as they were not abusive.

And for the record, I have not taken the position that the aliens are demons - Lori deserves full credit for that concept.
 
My dear skepticus,

what a polite way of getting angry with me !
I most graciously apologise if I have offended you with my previous post.

To answer your first question :
I must say I get a little confused if on one side you want to make statements about the nature of the aliens who are supposed to be watching us and on the other side are to complex or alien to understand as you put it.

Of course you have your views but I don't think I really understand them, perhaps a little more elaboration is needed to clear this matter. :)

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we are midgets standing on the backs of giants,
Plato
 
Lori:

Funny that you mention that all those 'normal' people are testifying to alien abductions. Just the other day I've been listening to a radio program where they were discussing the latest and greatest psychoactive drugs (like Prozac, Phen Phen, etc.) Seems there is solid evidence that a lot of those tend to induce psychosis and schizophrenia as 'common side-effects'. Could it possibly be that a lot of 'normal' people one day felt slightly depressed, went to their shrink and got a few Prozac pills, then got abducted the next day and went back to their shrink to confess it all?

It doesn't have to be medicine, there could be other things driving 'normal' people nuts. Remember the Columbine high school? Or how about all those family murder/suicide cases -- where a normal guy goes berserk all of a sudden? Or all those cases where mothers try to kill themselves together with their children?

I tend to view the human brain as a very unstable and carefully-balanced system. Put it out of balance even for a moment, and strange things will end up happening.

Given that, you can't ignore the sociological aspects of the phenomenon. In the good old days, it used to be witches, ghosts, demons -- those are all the things they used to know back then. Now, of course, we've all see something like X-Files or Independence Day -- so it's not very surprising that the same old phenomena are being cast by the modern brains using new actors. I personally think more reasonable to suggest that it's all in the mind -- unless there is some physical evidence to the contrary, that is. (Btw as for those 'implants': I don't know, could be the evidence I'm looking for, but could just as easily be some artifact of the human body we haven't formally discovered yet.)

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I am; therefore I think.
 
Plato,

Let me clarify - no, I am not angry with you, I simply stated point number two as a formality (another proviso didn't hurt anyone on this board) in the event you were somehow suggesting that I should follow a specific agenda herein. I didn't think you were, but I felt compelled to mention this for the sake of my own insanity.

I am actually much more interested in your response to point number one - which is where the action is on this topic. If you do need me to offer more information, I would be happy to accommodate you.
 
I'm afraid I have to fully agree with Boris on this topic. There is just to much about the human brain that we don't understand yet so that means, a indivudual or even a collective experience at one instance at one place just can't do for evidence ! We can't trust our own senses to give an objective account of a single occurance. The problem with these strange things is, is that they are strange (sounds like a good argument doesn't it ;) ). I mean that we don't have any bases of comparison with our normal sensations to measure it against.
About the implants, if they are real and can be investigated by several laboratories who would state that they are made from alloys that we don't know how to make then we have some proof. But I'm afraid if something like that will be done the results will get 'covered up' again if they seem to indicate nothing is wrong with it and we are back were we started.
Besides, why are these aliens so primitive to use implants ? As if they couldn't do anything biological that does the same thing like change a tooth without us noticing. Again this implant business is just to much the same as we do in our clinics to hold any truth about aliens. What is it with those alien guys ? Are they stupid morons who only figured how to cheat on just about every fundamental physical force we know and have every psychic ability we can think of, but on other fields they are as far as we are ?
Let's be honest here, all these things indicate that the aliens who are visiting us are as much real as the elves and spirits of the forest of our ancestors. At least they could do magic, have the aliens of today forgotten that ancient craft ?

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we are midgets standing on the backs of giants,
Plato
 
I don't know....it seems to me that even if a person stepped forward and said that they had "solid" proof that the aliens are here, no one would believe them. What would be proof...the being itself?

The nature of a human is to "shut-down" the processing of information (by the brain) that causes an imbalance in ones emotional state (I think discovering that aliens really exist would fall into that catagory).

It's pretty obvious that we are not alone. What's not obvious is that the aliens are here (sometimes), and you really don't have to ask where... ;)

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...one mans MYTH is another mans MIGRAIN!

[This message has been edited by Sirius B (edited June 09, 1999).]
 
Dont pretend you are a psychologist or neurosugeon. You know nothing about the human brain, neither do I. Dont sit there and tell me the nature of the human brain is to shut down an blah blah blah. No offense meant, but thats bullshit.

And solid proof is something other then a doctored photo and some "doctor" explaining the warp drive mechanism is exactly like the one Scotty repaired in Star Trek episode #453

I know the evidence isnt that, but it is just about as credible
 
C.H.,
My level of education is not on "trial" here!
The topic (of this thread) is "where are the aliens"? We have no solid proof therefor, we can only guess. My guess is.....they are here on this planet (sometimes). Since I have chosen to believe this, I don't have to ask "where are they because THEY ARE RIGHT HERE.

If I said to you (C.H.) that I have solid proof, and then proceeded to let you see,hear,smell,and/or taste my proof chances are you "still" would not believe me (I mean really,...just take a look at your last post)! You have trouble believing that I might posses an education beyond an undergraduate level therefor, I am sure your brain would "refuse to work" if it were presented with solid proof that aliens were here on Earth.

By the way, next time you feel the "urge" to pre-judge a total stranger,....DON'T! :(

[This message has been edited by Sirius B (edited June 10, 1999).]
 
You summed it up perfectly. You choose to believe.

BTW I didnt mean to insult your intelligence. Just dont lecture me and everyone else on the bboard about how the human brain works, when not even neurosurgeons know how it does!


[This message has been edited by Corp.Hudson (edited June 11, 1999).]
 
Boris, really, you're grasping at straws here, don't you think? Blaming ALL of the UFO phenomena on prozac? Give me an f'ing break already! That is absolutely ridiculous! How many people do YOU know that have had some unexplained phenomenon happen to them? Were they just depressed? Or let me guess, you don't know any, right?

As for the question that has been raised regarding why the aliens would use such "primitive" mechanical hunks of metal to fly around in, when they obviously have powers that supercede and make them obsolete? That is an EXCELLENT f'ing question. It makes me think that it is nothing but a "movie". A Sci-Fi illusion with the intent to deceive in some way. What other options are there?

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God loves you and so do I!
 
C.H.,

I don't remember lecturing "you"! As a matter of fact, that post was not written with a "lecture" in mind (at all). The post was general and not directed at anyone...you really should remember that this board is "open" for anyone (and their opinions/ideas).

Be a bit more considerate (not to lecture you :eek: )of others when you choose to post a reply or an opinion!

Who wants to read (or visit) a board full of people who "trash" others? What is there to gain by doing this to other people...(people you don't even know)? :(

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...one mans MYTH is another mans MIGRAIN!
 
I just wanted to comment on that little part where one said something like" Why are they using such primitive implants, and not use a tooth or something" ( vague quote i know :)

Lets say that the governments are too good at covering things up, and the aliens then implanting these things inside us, for us to find, the civilian pop that is.. to let us know that.. " Hey. were here"

I am not sure where i heard this from *oh no another myth* but have you other people here heard that they are using a metal kind that for us here on earth is unknown.. Hmm..

enough allready :)
 
That is not reasonable, H-kon. Or they want us to know they are there, or they don't !
Otherwise we might as well go into the discussion that Paul McCartney has died in 1965 and the Beatles switched him for a look alike and then spend all their time leaving clues in their next albums for their fans to say 'Paul is dead'...

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we are midgets standing on the backs of giants,
Plato
 
Plato and H-kon,

As far as I know, scientists HAVE examined these implants that they have surgically removed from people, and they are made of a substance that IS UNKNOWN TO MAN. As to why would aliens implant these objects in people...like the spaceships...it's our perception that they are screwing with...it's a frickin' movie.

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God loves you and so do I!
 
LOL.. I have to laugh at your comparison Plato. but still that is my opinion ( not the McCartney story)
and what i believe is the proof of that is that they might be using what is an unknown substance.
Hell..i understand that the implants have a function. What it is, dont ask me, but as you Plato asked. Why didnt they put it somewhere else, hid it better.

You tell me...
 
These questions I'm asking are really because I don't know the answer to them, but ok I might also have an other purpose with them, that is trying to make you guys question your own believes about these things.

You must realise that when an observer gets a sensation, after comparing that sensation with previous sensations (let's call them conceptions) he begins to interprete to make it fit into a preformed picture that is already in the mind. For example if you look at the clouds, you see all kinds of shapes and also recognize a whole lot of them, where as the cloud really doesn't have any known shape at all. Same thing happens with astrology and so on.
Suppose a guy comes into a hospital with complains about headaches. After some X-rays, he gets operated and one finds a curious little metal thing under his skull. This will automatically trigger a whole set of interpretations who are fitted into the conceptions of the doctor, the nurses, the patient and anyone else who comes in contact with this very strange situation. How many different possiblities are there left to explain how it came there ? An infinite number because if you look at it mathematically the proplem has to many degrees of freedom to be determined. Next logical step is to examen the object and the patient psychologically. Suppose the patient, after some treatment, begins to recollect that he had an abduction and suppose the metal is determined to be of truely unknown origine. How many different possiblities are there now ? Still an infinite number but not in as many dimensions as before because there are some more boundery conditions. To have one single answer a problem must have as many boundery conditions as there are degrees of freedom. How many are there in this specific problem ? First you must determine what the problem is, do you want to know how the object came into the guy's head ? Do you want to know what kind of object it is ? Do you want to know why it was inside his head ? All different questions with different fase-spaces.
Lets take the first question, I am no brainsurgeon but I'm sure there are a whole number of ways something could end up into someones head so here I all ready must pass to how many degrees of freedom there are. What are our boundery conditions ? Well the fact that it is inside the head and the things that the doctors see during their examinition of the guy. Not really a well determined problem is it ? This makes it all the more dangerous to just go ahead and make your conclusions about things that aren't even part of the problem.

So I would just like to caution you people when you read something about these things before you form your conclusions always ask yourself is it already possible to form any conclusions at all ?

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we are midgets standing on the backs of giants,
Plato
 
Plato's got the point, and I'd just like to add to the punch a little.

First of all, "unknown elements" in implants?? We already know all elements up to 114, I believe (and those heavy ones are all highly toxic). So I'd imagine the elements are very known. What I have heard rather is that the 'implants' have an intricate, layered structure. However, that does not impress me since all biological structures are intricate and layered. Made of metal? Well, our bodies contain plenty of minerals, including metals. In fact, as I vaguely recall, the so-called 'implants' aren't made of alloyed metal, and don't even exhibit isotope levels inconsistent with Earth origin. Though there may be others I haven't read about that are metal, as Plato points out there are plenty of ways those 'implants' could get embedded in soft tissue. Though last time I heard, none were found in peoples' *brains*??

As for why the alien 'devices' sound so primitive? I've got three alternative explanations. First: there is beauty in simplicity. Perhaps a truly advanced technology is the one that leads to the most 'primitive' design. Alternative: we made them up -- therefore the alien technology is only on par with our own. Another alternative: we could be seeing just 'shadows' of sophisticated machines, the bulk of which is hidden from us in other dimensions. Of course, there may be other possibilities as well...

Another neurological hint at 'abduction' experiences. During sleep our bodies go into what's been appropriately called "sleep paralysis". That is, the entire motor system is massively inhibited -- especially during REM sleep. One can readily see the usefullness of such a biological device -- because when it malfunctions people end up thrashing about and sleepwalking. But it can malfunction in a different way as well: people can wake up still paralyzed. Unable to move, that is. Don't think I'm making this up; it's a clinical syndrome. The paralysis eventually vanishes, but it does take a few minutes. During which time, people typically are in a whole lot of panic (when they are truly awake). Or, they may be only partially awake, and their inability to move translates into a nightmare. Abduction, anyone? One other thing: during sleep another protective mechanism kicks in -- the transfer from short-term memory into long-term storage is inhibited. Makes sense, since our dreams do not -- and if we remembered them we'd be very confused. That's why you normally forget the dream, even if you vividly remembered it just two minutes ago. However, if the dream was particularly traumatic, or you were woken up right in the middle of it, you may retain it in long-term memory. Again, could this possibly hint at 'abductions'? One question I'd ask 'abductees': can they regularly remember their dreams? If they can, then something's wrong with their sleep regulatory mechanisms.

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I am; therefore I think.
 
First of all

I think Plato and Boris wrote some things that i am still thinking about( slow cpu)which i am going to TRY to address later.

But i wanted to comment on them both saying that i think those two guys are damn smart, and it is hard (for me) to give them a run for the money.

Good job guys :)

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Using BeOS R4 with Netpositve 3.03d
 
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