When do babies get a soul?

The human heart is just a muscle. Having someone else's heart is no more going to effect your emotions than having someone else's kidney, or eyes, or any other transplanted organ.

There is no evidence for a soul, and the advocates for its existence in this thread can't even seem to agree on what it is. There is no reason to think anything about our consciousness is supernatural, or will continue after the brain ceases to function.

the heart is not just a muscle/pump, i thought it has a unique relationship witht he brain, and recieves emotional information.

maybe this website is wrong, but they claim to do much research in this area.
http://www.heartmath.org/research/research-overview.html


"Heart–brain interactions:
The heart and brain maintain a continuous two-way dialogue, with each influencing the other's functioning. It is now known that the signals the heart sends the brain can influence perception, emotional processing, and higher cognitive functions. Our research is exploring the influence of the heart's input on brain activity, emotional perception and experience, and cognitive performance. We have shown that emotion-related changes in the heart's rhythmic activity are correlated with distinct changes in these variables. Our findings also point to a link between positive emotions and improved cognitive functioning."



peace.
 
people have been documented and reported to have passed on emotional aspects through heart transplants.

the doner has passed on certain traits and tastes including feeling, understanding and talents through the heart. and the new host of the heart has often felt like they have 2 people living inside them. this has been reported many times, i have watched a couple of documentary shows on it.


peace.

most interesting.
 
all i did was mention something that i saw on discovery channel.

I swear to god I saw something on Discovery Science called 'Ghost Hunters'. It's an entertainment channel.
 
I swear to god I saw something on Discovery Science called 'Ghost Hunters'. It's an entertainment channel.

yeah but thats some kind of woo woo show starring slimer and marshmallow man.

the show i was watching was about doctors and transplant sergeons talking with patients about experiences, thats a big difference.

peace.
 
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M*W: There are at least three answers to your question.

1) The christian version is that the soul is there from the time of conception.

2) The metaphysical version is that the soul is there for all eternity.

3) The atheist version is that there is no soul to begin with.

4) The reality version is that what has been mistaken for the "soul" is nothing more than bioelectric energy with a religious spin on it. I prefer this version.

waoh, elegantly put.:D
 
...1) The christian version is that the soul is there from the time of conception.....

so if it happens at conception, what happens when the ovum splits into triplets? Does each of them get a third of that soul or does 1 baby get it all and the other 2 have none?
 
it might be poppycock for all i know, all i did was mention something that i saw on discovery channel. its not like i claimed it was a fact or anything, i said it was reported and documented, wich it obviously was or i wouldent have watched a 2 hour long documentary about doctors and patients talking about it.

Being "documented" is a comment that implies that something is factual and my counter comments were designed only to demonstrate clearly that it wasn't factual but, rather, anecdotal at best -fabricated at worst.

i never claimed it was proof or fact, i just said what i watched. and how can you possibly have a credible or convincing delusion?

You implied it. Whether you intended to or not, the reader is left to infer that "documented" equates to factual. Such careless comments require the reasoned minded to refute. As to how you can experience a "credible or convincing delusion," there are all sorts of things that do this to us all the time. Thinking you are more important than you really are is one of the more common that many of us experience (a delusion of grandeur); the belief that others are out to ruin you or are plotting behind your back; etc.

peace.[/QUOTE]
 
so if it happens at conception, what happens when the ovum splits into triplets? Does each of them get a third of that soul or does 1 baby get it all and the other 2 have none?
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M*W: My understanding of the 'soul' from a spiritual perspective (but not a religious one) is that there is really only one soul/spirit that is shared by every living thing. As I understood it the soul/spirit is timeless and eternal. There are no individual souls. There is no x number of souls, but only one. However, I must clarify that this was my former belief. It's a happy way to believe the soul might exist, but I tend to think on more practical terms now. I don't believe a soul exists. However, as human beings, we have an innate connection with each other, whether it's spiritual or logical. We have biomedical energy that connects us with each other on a chemical basis. I know you've felt it. I think we all have, but it's nothing mysterious or woo woo.

Have you ever notice when a person is dying? They have an ashen appearance. Their biomedical energy is flickering out. It's really not spiritual at all, but that's how it has been described because people want to believe there is something in the hereafter.
 
We can all be broken down into components as we are all carbon based but are you the same as the shrub outside the house or your cat??? NO.
YES

If all living beings and have consciousness from developing a brain and have awareness how is that different from a soul??
You can call it soul if you want, is this your definition of soul ?

Idiots, we are all different and the same but it's a matter of context. Biochemical reactions in this case is missing the point entirely.
How so ? Please explain, I'm but a mere idiot...

And you still haven't answered what life is, consiousness, sense of self, awareness. I would say that is a soul.
Ok, but why don't you just call it life then ?

Are you merely a bunch of fucking atoms smashed together with no apparent function.
No, I am a bunch of 'fucking atoms smashed together' with a whole lot of function.
 
I think that babies understand a whole lot better than most adults!!! Medicine women you are very intelligent person..... So the next question is "how do you allow the the massses to understand?"
 
LG,

What do you mean by life?
take a dead person and compare it to a living one

What is a soul?
the difference in the above scenario

A bacterium is alive - does it then have a soul?
yes
8 400 000 species of life in this world - only 400 000 are humanoid (according to the vedas)

If souls "enter" a living organism where do these souls come from?
souls do not enter living organisms - they are what gives dull matter the symptoms of life

Is there an infinite supply of souls and what are they doing while waiting for physical form?
two ways to answer this
the easiest is that living entities only come to the material world when they have material desires to express (much like people only go to jail when they do crime)

a more technical answer is that conditioned souls at the time of the periodical annihilation of the material universe enter into a dormant state, much like computer file can be compacted while not in use

If there is a finite supply would that mean that at some point a person could be born without a soul, and what would that mean?
once again, you can't separate life from the soul anymore than you cab separate sunlight from the sun

If these questions seem daft then that is because they are. The soul concept is simply pure nonsense.
well lets see what you have to offer as an alternative ....

Consciousness and self-awareness (you) are mainatained and generated by the brain.
an idea popularized by science fiction but yet to make headway in science ...

When the brain is irreparably damaged then you will cease to exist.
I think we have gone over this before - there is a distinction between the conceived self (self awareness) and the self as context (consciousness)
What function would a soul perform that a brain cannot?
even a dead person has a brain - doesn't seem to help them too much in manifesting the symptoms of life however

Isn't the soul concept an unfortunate ignorant leftover from the times when the mechanism of neural networks had not been discovered
you are just simply trying to bluff

discovery of neural pathways has lead to any such "discovery"

Up until then no one could imagine how emotions and thoughts could orignate other than something magical.
you're not confusing self awareness and consciousness again are you?

It is surely time to put these silly ideas of a soul behind us and move on.

if you had something for us to move on to with, rather than anticipations of what science will discover in the years to come ( a favorite topic of sci-fi) perhaps it would be possible - as it remains however, the facts still stand - material reductionism has not lead to any discovery of the fundamental principle of life (even though its plain enough to notice the symptoms)
 
According to modern terms. "Soul" means that which survivies death.

Yet the ancient Hebrews had no such definition of Soul. It is the Hebrew definition of Soul that Jesus expressed and passed on to his apostle and who in turn passed it on to the Christian congregation.

The Soul (nephesh) in Hebrew has a litteral meaning like all Hebrew pronouns...Nephesh means "that which breathes". Even more specificly they're are many refrences in the Bible which direct us to understand that the soul is in the Blood.

Should we ask our selves..."When does a baby get it's soul". Then quite litteraly that would be as soon as it's concieved as it is drawing blood from with in the womb.

Soul and Spirit are often viewed as the same. However according to the Biblical evidence and lingistic dedication to precision, the soul is the Body and the Spirit is the force which, according to the bible, "the force that actuates our minds"

According to the bible. Both die at death...body and spirit. Neither is immortal. Thus a child does not posess a soul...IT IS a living soul.
(refrences available)
 
Nephesh means "that which breathes". Even more specificly they're are many refrences in the Bible which direct us to understand that the soul is in the Blood.

Inaccurate. 'soul' is not to do with blood, it's to do with breath - which is why you have the statement "that which breathes". Figure it out.
 
I'm sorry Snake Lord evidence shows that the application of "that which breathes" in the bible is at times refrenced to blood, therefore it is indeed accurate.

To be litteral it is indeed the blood that transports the waste CO2 and fresh O2 from the cells to the "exhaust manifold" (lungs). The bible achieves a remarkable testimony to acuracy here of understanding...once again centuries before the verified by scientific experimentation. It is why I have the utmost respect for the book.
 
*************
M*W: My understanding of the 'soul' from a spiritual perspective (but not a religious one) is that there is really only one soul/spirit that is shared by every living thing. As I understood it the soul/spirit is timeless and eternal. There are no individual souls. There is no x number of souls, but only one. However, I must clarify that this was my former belief.

Although I might not be considered an authority on the subject; this is a common misunderstanding.
"Soul" does not equal "Spirit"/"Holy Ghost".

Just to put it quite simply, that which you described is the "spirit", the "holy ghost".
Bottom line:
Soul is to the Spirit as personality is to the body.
 
Each own´s Soul is unique, and it complements the "Universal Spirit"; adding a unique characteristic to "the whole".
The "Universal Spirit" has a purpose, and that purpose resides in the individual purpose of every individual; that "individual purpose" is intrisic of the Soul.

Not all people get to cristalize their souls, therefore they don´t perform the purpose they were meant to do in a given life. This is the reason of reincarnation, it is just the Spirit telling you: "you failed, try again".
 
I'm sorry Snake Lord evidence shows that the application of "that which breathes" in the bible is at times refrenced to blood, therefore it is indeed accurate.

Inaccurate.

http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/mind.html

'the Hebrew word neshamah (literally meaning 'breath') is twice rendered as 'spirit', once as 'soul'. The Hebrew-Aramaic word ruach (lit., 'wind') is rendered 240 times as 'spirit', six times as 'mind.' The word nephesh (lit., 'breath') is rendered 'soul' 428 times, 'mind' 15 times, 'ghost' twice, and 'life' 119 times. Turning to the Greek Bible, we find pneuma (lit., 'breath') rendered as 'ghost' 91 times (including the rendering 'Holy Ghost'), 292 times as 'spirit''.
 
Yes, rendered inaccurately. Theres no denying that modern translators have rendered ne'phesh and ru'ach every which way. So yes you're quite correct it is inaccurate however I was speaking of the original meaning.
 
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