When do babies get a soul?

[SkinWalker]

Where did you get the idea I thought the heart muscle has anything to do with a "soul"? I was using that as an example that it was merely an organ. Give me a break, you don't feel just adrenaline or excitement but all types of emotions in your chest area. I don't feel love or sadness in my gallbladder. Sounds like bullshit to me.

Explain why.

I'd like you to cite evidence that you feel any emotion in your "chest area." And, assuming that you do, what do you suppose originates the "emotion?"

The reasoned explanation is biochemical, which the brain associates with various emotional responses to various social and environmental situations. For instance, the release of adrenaline when you are angry, excited by a first kiss, scared by a near fall from leaning back in a chair, etc. Not a single emotion has been shown to exist without a biochemical cause, including "sadness." And not a single emotion has been found to occur before the relevant biochemical action has taken place.

There's no soul involved. Just chemistry.

 

[(Q)]

Totally missing the point of the meaning of a soul. First it's a word attached to a phenomenon.

What phenomenon?

Do you not exist even though your parents initiated you? We can all be broken down into components as we are all carbon based but are you the same as the shrub outside the house or your cat??? NO.

YES.

Do you still not exist though you will die and turn to dust one day?????

Of course, but that doesn't quantify the existence of souls.

What makes you think a unique soul that is you can't exist along with your physical body by all the uniqueness that is you??

Uniqueness also does not quantify the existence of souls.

If all living beings and have consciousness from developing a brain and have awareness how is that different from a soul??

Consciousness and awareness are properties inherent to the brain and have nothing to do with souls.

Idiots, we are all different and the same but it's a matter of context. Biochemical reactions in this case is missing the point entirely.

No, it's not. YOU are missing the point.

And you still haven't answered what life is, consiousness, sense of self, awareness. I would say that is a soul.

You're wrong, it's the brain.

Are you merely a bunch of fucking atoms smashed together with no apparent function.

What function are you referring? A purpose to existence?

Anybody can deduct and induct a process. Doesn't answer the biggest question of all now does it?

Neither do souls.

 

[peta9]

I'd like you to cite evidence that you feel any emotion in your "chest area." And, assuming that you do, what do you suppose originates the "emotion?"

The reasoned explanation is biochemical, which the brain associates with various emotional responses to various social and environmental situations. For instance, the release of adrenaline when you are angry, excited by a first kiss, scared by a near fall from leaning back in a chair, etc. Not a single emotion has been shown to exist without a biochemical cause, including "sadness." And not a single emotion has been found to occur before the relevant biochemical action has taken place.

There's no soul involved. Just chemistry.

You are telling me that you feel exitement or sadness or anger or any other emotion, (not physical pain) somewhere else besides your chest area?? When I feel sadness, I don't get merely a fucking headache but feel it in my chest area. So you are essentially not acknowledging the existence of something because it's not concrete enough and attached to the brain or that your sense of self isn't real or valid in itself. Well guess what we are all attached to something and came from something. It doesn't mean those emotions or sensations birthed are not real or don't exist. It's the same as if africans claimed you don't exist because they are your ancestors.

Really?

Of course it originates in the brain but there is still a process going on in the chest area that is unique to your emotional center and sense of self and that can be called a soul and it's alive period until you die just like your physical body.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

people have been documented and reported to have passed on emotional aspects through heart transplants.

the doner has passed on certain traits and tastes including feeling, understanding and talents through the heart. and the new host of the heart has often felt like they have 2 people living inside them. this has been reported many times, i have watched a couple of documentary shows on it.


peace.

 

[SkinWalker]

What makes you think a unique soul that is you can't exist along with your physical body by all the uniqueness that is you??

The question isn't worded appropriately. It should read, "what makes you think that a unique soul can exist alongside your physical body?" Or that one is even necessary with a system that doesn't appear to require one since neural activity and biochemical responses do the job nicely. Like I said, if you want to call this system of neurons and biochemistry a "soul," then that may be a different definition that most people are using, but its fine with me. Just don't expect this "soul" to survive the death of your body.

If all living beings and have consciousness from developing a brain and have awareness how is that different from a soul??

It depends on what you're defining "soul" as. If you mean that mystical essence that survives the body in some supernatural manner, it differs greatly. If you mean "neural and biochemical responses to the environment," which expires with the death of the body, then there's no difference.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Scientific eveidence concludes that there's no proof of a soul. Either you believe it to be so or you don't.

 

[SkinWalker]

You are telling me that you feel exitement or sadness or anger or any other emotion, (not physical pain) somewhere else besides your chest area??

I perceive it through my brain based upon biochemical activity that can occur in my body. One of these occurrences can be in the "chest area" as adrenaline is released in the cardiovascular system. One of these occurrences can be in my extremities as palms become sweaty, goose pimples raise, "hackles" raise on the back of my neck, a chill overcomes me at a grotesque thought, etc. These are biochemical responses that the human mind associates with various emotions ranging from love to hatred; from fright to anticipation.

Call it a "soul" if want. This won't be what others call a "soul," however.

Of course it originates in the brain but there is still a process going on in the chest area that is unique to your emotional center and sense of self and that can be called a soul and it's alive period until you die just like your physical body.

"Emotional center" of the "chest area?" Pure new-age poppycock. It isn't something separate from your physical body. It *is* your physical body.

 

[SkinWalker]

people have been documented and reported to have passed on emotional aspects through heart transplants.

Please, cite these "documented" cases in peer-reviewed literature. The author surely received the Noble prize for his/her discovery.

the doner has passed on certain traits and tastes including feeling, understanding and talents through the heart. and the new host of the heart has often felt like they have 2 people living inside them. this has been reported many times, i have watched a couple of documentary shows on it.

Oh. I see. You saw it on television. Was it the program between the one about 9/11 conspiracy and the other about the alien autopsy?

 

[Nasor]

the symptom of the soul is life (materially there is no difference between a dead body and a living body - they are composed of the same compounds)

The sperm and the egg were both alive before they met up to form an embryo. For that matter, there are many living things that you probably don’t want to agree have souls. So clearly simply being alive isn’t a good way of deciding if something has a soul or not.

Also, there most certainly are material differences between a dead body and a living body - that's why doctors are able to use machines to determine when someone is dead.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Please, cite these "documented" cases in peer-reviewed literature. The author surely received the Noble prize for his/her discovery.



Oh. I see. You saw it on television. Was it the program between the one about 9/11 conspiracy and the other about the alien autopsy?

why would you post the former request followed by the latter sarcasm?. and i was watching it on the discovery and science channel, it was a documentary about heart transplants and organ doners. why do you take such a negative stance on something you have not even heard about?

peace.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

You are telling me that you feel exitement or sadness or anger or any other emotion, (not physical pain) somewhere else besides your chest area?? When I feel sadness, I don't get merely a fucking headache but feel it in my chest area. So you are essentially not acknowledging the existence of something because it's not concrete enough and attached to the brain or that your sense of self isn't real or valid in itself. Well guess what we are all attached to something and came from something. It doesn't mean those emotions or sensations birthed are not real or don't exist. It's the same as if africans claimed you don't exist because they are your ancestors.

Really?

Of course it originates in the brain but there is still a process going on in the chest area that is unique to your emotional center and sense of self and that can be called a soul and it's alive period until you die just like your physical body.

*************
M*W: Well, I'm an atheist, and when I deliver one of my grandbabies, I get the same 'caught-up' feeling in my chest. Another case scenario is when I trip and go flying trying not to fall down. I get that same 'caught-up' feeling in my chest. When I see something bad about to happen like a car wreck, I gasp in shock, take excess air into my lungs which are pushed up by my diaphragm, and then, too, I get all knotted up in my chest.

There's not much distance from the brain to the chest. I suppose if we felt emotion in our foot, it would take a little longer to respond. Then there is the possibility that our veins (those going toward our heart) might clamp-up a bit, increase our blood pressure and secrete the adrenalin into our blood giving us the 'freeze or fight or flight' emotion.

No soul, just a biochemical reaction.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

people have been documented and reported to have passed on emotional aspects through heart transplants.

the doner has passed on certain traits and tastes including feeling, understanding and talents through the heart. and the new host of the heart has often felt like they have 2 people living inside them. this has been reported many times, i have watched a couple of documentary shows on it. peace.

*************
M*W: This comes from conditioned behavior. When you 'give someone your heart,' say romantically, you feel that your heart and your lover's heart are one. Same thing for the heart transplant recipient. The donor saved his/her life. There is joy and gratitude in that. It's no wonder the recipient feels a unity with the donor. Many times the parents or family of the donor make contact with the recipient, and an emotional bond is form. It works for both people--the recipient and the family of the donor. There will always be a bond that both these people want to believe in. The family lost their loved one, but gained the beholder of their loved one's heart. The heart recipient receives a set of new loved ones. Although it makes for a heart warming story on the 6:00 PM news, it is based on human need--both physical and emotional, but it has nothing to do with any soul.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Scientific eveidence concludes that there's no proof of a soul. Either you believe it to be so or you don't.

*************
M*W: Exactly.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I perceive it through my brain based upon biochemical activity that can occur in my body. One of these occurrences can be in the "chest area" as adrenaline is released in the cardiovascular system. One of these occurrences can be in my extremities as palms become sweaty, goose pimples raise, "hackles" raise on the back of my neck, a chill overcomes me at a grotesque thought, etc. These are biochemical responses that the human mind associates with various emotions ranging from love to hatred; from fright to anticipation.

Call it a "soul" if want. This won't be what others call a "soul," however.

"Emotional center" of the "chest area?" Pure new-age poppycock. It isn't something separate from your physical body. It *is* your physical body.

*************
M*W: Good point, Skin. I have an example. Have you ever been riding with someone in their car, or even driving yourself, and you're distracted a moment and almost rear-end the vehicle in front of you? What is the next thing that happens on your body? Your hand immediately goes to somewhere on your face or head. That's because the blood is rushing from your brain to your head (which is even closer than the chest, and your instinctive reaction is to put your hand where the blood rushes to. The face and head have a tremendous amount of blood vessels, so naturally, this is where you'd feel the blood rush to. Check it out the next time you're riding with someone! Or you may become aware that you've been doing this all along and never paid any attention to it!

 

[peta9]

I don't care if you feel emotion in your pinkie or your chest, the fact you do and even feel a sense of self all the time to me is a soul, the reason behind consciousness whatever that is which is still not understood. Otherwise we would be like robots.

The sensations of adrenaline and such in other affects of the body have nothing to do with the fact you don't feel emotions anywhere else except in your chest area such as love, compassion, sense of self, anger, hate, jealousy, sadness, joy and all other textures of emotions.

 

[SkinWalker]

why would you post the former request followed by the latter sarcasm?. and i was watching it on the discovery and science channel, it was a documentary about heart transplants and organ doners. why do you take such a negative stance on something you have not even heard about?

peace.

Newsflash. The former was sarcasm as well.

I take a negative stance on nothing that I've not already heard about. This alleged phenomenon is unsupported and the fact that you saw it on television doesn't impress me (or any other non-credulous thinker) in the least.

Either cite real sources or the claim is poppycock. There has been no medically documented case of any "memories" or "thoughts" transmitted from one organ donor to the next. There are, however, many instances of credulous donor recipients experiencing delusions about what they think they should feel or remember, but these anecdotes are not convincing.

 

[SkinWalker]

I don't care if you feel emotion in your pinkie or your chest, the fact you do and even feel a sense of self all the time to me is a soul,

Then your definition of "soul" isn't in line with that of most of the rest of humanity who believes in the unsupported notion that a "soul" is something that exists independent of the human body and can survive the human death.

 

[Repo Man]

people have been documented and reported to have passed on emotional aspects through heart transplants.

the doner has passed on certain traits and tastes including feeling, understanding and talents through the heart. and the new host of the heart has often felt like they have 2 people living inside them. this has been reported many times, i have watched a couple of documentary shows on it.


peace.

The human heart is just a muscle. Having someone else's heart is no more going to effect your emotions than having someone else's kidney, or eyes, or any other transplanted organ.

There is no evidence for a soul, and the advocates for its existence in this thread can't even seem to agree on what it is. There is no reason to think anything about our consciousness is supernatural, or will continue after the brain ceases to function.

 

[Ganymede]

When the Soul Train rolls into town, Baby.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Newsflash. The former was sarcasm as well.

I take a negative stance on nothing that I've not already heard about. This alleged phenomenon is unsupported and the fact that you saw it on television doesn't impress me (or any other non-credulous thinker) in the least.

Either cite real sources or the claim is poppycock. There has been no medically documented case of any "memories" or "thoughts" transmitted from one organ donor to the next. There are, however, many instances of credulous donor recipients experiencing delusions about what they think they should feel or remember, but these anecdotes are not convincing.

it might be poppycock for all i know, all i did was mention something that i saw on discovery channel. its not like i claimed it was a fact or anything, i said it was reported and documented, wich it obviously was or i wouldent have watched a 2 hour long documentary about doctors and patients talking about it.


i never claimed it was proof or fact, i just said what i watched. and how can you possibly have a credible or convincing delusion?


peace.