What or whom do atheists posit as their highest authority?

[Cris]

Jay,

I am merely pointing out that human emotion and gut feelings are illogical to have.

You have perhaps been watching too much Star Trek. There is nothing illogical about emotions; they are an essential part of what makes us who we are. But making decisions based on emotional sensations when reasoned logic would have indicated a different decision is where emotions become unreliable, as opposed to illogical. But ultimately we take actions because of some form of desire or pleasure (based on emotions) – these are the essential ingredients of what it means to be human.

To have these emotions and gut feelings, you must experience them to know they exist.

Well no, that does not follow. I can observe the effects in others which would give me independent verification of the existence of emotions. Experiencing my own emotions would grant me a greater understanding of emotions, but that is not essential in realizing the existence of emotions.

It is the same with God.

Well obviously not now since your first premise was not valid. But let’s say you were right then that could be true if God is a type of emotion, and hence generated internally, i.e. by your brain. If however, God were an external force or influence, which is what Christians maintain, then how do you tell the difference between such an entity and an internally generated emotional effect? The latter being exceptionally more credible than the claim that the effect is caused by a super powerful omniscient, omnipotent, etc. etc, being.

I have faith in God because he has been faithful to me, so despite my head-strong doubts, I still have faith.

These statements contain no value. Faith in this sense is a conviction that something is true despite the absence of any evidence or proof – the opposite of logical reasoning.

So, in order for the logical mind to believe in God, the person must experience God.

No that doesn’t follow since you have not shown that this god can only be proved through emotional sensations only. With anything we know exists we can detect such existence through independent observation and detection that does not require emotional components. But even if what you say were true then part of the logic must show that such experiences are caused by a godlike entity as opposed to imaginative fantasy. You have yet to show any such distinction, and without that the fantasy remains by far the most credible explanation.

Until that time, the existence of God is illogical.

A very confused clause.

Until I get angry and see others angry, it is illogical to be angry.

Anger is a valid emotion, why is it illogical? Not sure what this has to do with the discussion though.

 

[Yorda]

Since atheists see themselves as the highest authority, the self must be the same thing as what religious people call God.

We both have the same "authority"

 

[(Q)]

I speak of the only God that is plausible.

You must be naive to think that any given person on the street who believes in another god wouldn't say the same thing. In fact, their god may demand the separation of head from body of the infidel who could have spoken such blaspheme and subjected their soul to an eternity of fiery damnation!

Every religion but Christianity is laughable.

Again, the same would apply as above.

Notice though, by making that statement, you provide evidence to the assumption that religion conquers and divides all mankind, and elevates your division above all others.

Most were created by one man, which makes Christianity more believable.

Why, because it was written by more than one man? Would it be still more believable if written by hundreds, thousands, millions...?

Even if Christianity is a lie, it is the best lie out there.

But a lie, nonetheless.

And a bad one a that, contrary to what you may think. Smidgeons of reason can easily deconstruct Christianity. Of course, it does have you hook, line and sinker, so I suspect you are bias.

 

[Cris]

Jay,

I speak of the only God that is plausible.

There is no way to demonstrate a plausible god without some form of evidence and there is none.

Logic tears apart any religion.

This is to be expected since logic is dependent on facts and religions have none.

What makes Christianity different than other religions is the accuracy of the Bible, the consitency, the age, and the number of contributing authors.

I think you have this backwards. There are now numerous publications and websites that have no trouble demonstrating the inaccuracy, and the huge number of inconsistencies in the bible. The age is certainly not in its favor since that makes any of its claims difficult and usually impossible to verify, and the number of authors is consistent with the numerous inconsistencies – i.e. they do not all agree on the same fantasy.

Whether or not, the tale was told after, before, or during each event cannot be known.

Which doesn’t help us verify anything about the bible.

Every religion but Christianity is laughable.

All religions are based on fantasy so it is not clear how you can justify an exception for Christianity.

Most were created by one man, which makes Christianity more believable.

Are you trying to claim that there was more than one Christ? Which man created the Roman gods? Which man created the Greek gods? Which man created Hinduism?

A lie told often enough becomes truth.

No, a lie told often enough can become believed as truth, but it remains a lie.

Even if Christianity is a lie, it is the best lie out there.

That still gives no indication that it isn’t still a lie.

Now, if you wish to experience God, you must pray for him to move on you, be patient, and keep praying.

This doesn’t work, I’ve tried it.

If you want to play basketball, where do you go? You go to a court and join some others.

Bad example – this doesn’t seem relevant to your point.

If you really want to experience God, you have to look for him, pray, and be patient.

As I said – this doesn’t work.

Of course it is difficult to have motivation to be illogical if you have no reason to be illogical. God must give you a reason. He will give you one someday, and you will have the choice to believe or not.

This is gibberish and circular.

It is difficult for me to get upset if someone doesn't do something to me or my family.

No that is not correct. Anyone can upset themselves by thinking about appropriate things, no third party is necessary. And why is that point relevant?

 

[SnakeLord]

It is impossible to believe in God if you have intelligence

I couldn't agree more, and indeed statistics show it to be the case. The less educated countries, (Africa etc), have the very high religiosity rates - 90%+, whereas the more educated countries have low religiosity -20%+

Of course you show that whole 'thick as shit' attitude with every sentence you write. The: 'my religion is more realer! than everyone elses' mentality really does help show just where you're at.

 

[Cris]

Yorda,

Since atheists see themselves as the highest authority, the self must be the same thing as what religious people call God.

No, not all atheists agree on anything like this, so your premise becomes nonsense.

We both have the same "authority"

Clearly not true.

 

[Yorda]

Cris,

No, not all atheists agree on anything like this, so your premise becomes nonsense.

No, all atheists agree on this, so your premise becomes nonsense. It is impossible to do something for others, we always do it for ourselves. Because there is only one self (which in religions is called God)

It is impossible to believe anything but ourselves.

Clearly not true.

Clearly not true.

 

[SnakeLord]

No, all atheists agree on this, so your premise becomes nonsense. It is impossible to do something for others, we always do it for ourselves. Because there is only one self (which in religions is called God)

It is impossible to believe anything but ourselves.

What a complete load of old bollocks.

 

[§outh§tar]

I couldn't agree more, and indeed statistics show it to be the case. The less educated countries, (Africa etc), have the very high religiosity rates - 90%+, whereas the more educated countries have low religiosity -20%+

Consider the painful irony of such a statement.

Africa is a country.

WOW.

 

[Yorda]

What a complete load of old bollocks.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[Cris]

Yorda,

No, all atheists agree on this, so your premise becomes nonsense.

No, atheists only agree on one single thing – they all lack a belief in the existence of a god or gods. It makes no sense to clump all atheists together for any other claim.

It is impossible to do something for others,

No, people do this all the time.

we always do it for ourselves.

No, you are confusing action and motivation.

Because there is only one self

No, there are currently around 6 billion individuals.

(which in religions is called God)

No, only you say that.

It is impossible to believe anything but ourselves.

No, we tend to believe things said by people we trust.

 

[SnakeLord]

Consider the painful irony of such a statement.

Africa is a country.

WOW.

My apologies, guess I have to get overly specific with foreigners. I thought it was pretty simple to pick up exactly what I was saying, but then everyone's different. I might aswell point out that my post does not say Africa is a country. What it says is that countries, (Africa etc) - which means countries in Africa. Need I list them all by name just to please a pedantic little snotbag?

 

[superluminal]

Consider the painful irony of such a statement.

Africa is a country.

WOW.

Ouch. We sholud convene our secret Supreme Atheist Counsel in the [shhh! Secret Place... you know...] and reconsider his membership. (don't forget your robes and sacred texts).

scientia, ratiocinatio, pax

 

[superluminal]

Snake,

Just messing with you dude. Chill out.

 

[Yorda]

Yorda,

No, atheists only agree on one single thing – they all lack a belief in the existence of a god or gods. It makes no sense to clump all atheists together for any other claim.

Yeah.

No, people do this all the time.

Yeah.

No, you are confusing action and motivation.

Yeah.

No, there are currently around 6 billion individuals.

Yeah.

No, only you say that.

Yeah.

No, we tend to believe things said by people we trust.

Yeah.

 

[superluminal]

Yorda funny. Me laugh. Ha. Ha.

 

[scorpius]

.. What makes Christianity different than other religions is the accuracy of the Bible, the consitency, ..

ever read this one?
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

Now, if you wish to experience God, you must pray for him to move on you, be patient, and keep praying.
If you really want to experience God, you have to look for him, pray, and be patient.

never had a need for god but many who tried found out that it
doesnt work
such as Rev Huger
www.jhuger.com/mystic_atheism

now what?

 

[VossistArts]

athiests.. highest authority? thats easy. death.

I dont believe in deities either. I dont believe in things I see no evidence for. I know there is a higher order to things.. a fundamental something that isnt a thing, that is like the invisable structuring impetus.. but a god? Im certain that the referrence to god in the bible wasnt considered an actuality until it was decided that much of the OT and NT should be read more literally. God is used as a reference for unusual phenomena to personal revelations in the bible all over the place, but few enuf claims of an actual god manifesting in god form in front of a person or especially persons that its only logical to see the accounts as fabrications. nevertheless or more, I dont consider myself an athiest because as an intelligent person rather than seeing it impossible to believe in a god ( which by the way would be a demiurge if in fact it did exist as such) i see that its not appropriate to state that there is in fact no god. There is an extreme outside chance that we and everything is created by some shy weird god somewhere. I acknowledge its possible. thats a long ways from believing in it..but its honest. I think by definition beliefs lack fundamental honesty.

 

[Satyr]

“Highest Authority” hints at the absolute, at a gradation of authority.

There was, is and ever will be only one authority for any individual, living creature, and that is ‘self’.
No, matter how illusionary and faulty this starting proposition is, it is the beginning and end of all consciousness, the wick from where the flame comes out of and looks back at itself.

What many theists fail to comprehend, over and over and over again, is that ‘self’ is for them also, the starting point from where their concepts of compassion and love and selflessness and wholeness come from.

When they speak of omniscient, omnipotent beings, which are creators but also concepts of a whole, they are projecting Self into the Other, they are expressing love for self through a love for others, because some have been taught that it is sinful or wrong to love self above all else. It is how they justify their selfishness when they use selflessness to acquire things they need and assurances they think they deserve.
They are bolstering an imperfect, mortal fallible self through imaginative alliances, through which they attain perfection, infallibility and eternity.

To have sympathy is to place yourself in the place of another and to feel the pain you would feel and the need you would feel in their place. It is compassion for self, redirected through the other we associate with, that we feel.

Whoever does not truly love self, needs a God to love them unconditionally, a new more sublime parent to make up for their imperfect real ones.
Whoever does not respect self needs a dogma to feel pride and to sense that they deserve dignity and respect.
Whoever cannot be just and good, in accordance to his/her own standards and justifications and sensibilities, needs a supposed external authority to force them to be so.
Whoever cannot discipline himself/herself to ones own long-term self-interests and to ones own reason, needs threats and promises and a dogma or rules and regulations to find pathways.
Whoever cannot create meaning and purpose on ones own and feels anxiety and solitude in following the meanings and purposes of self, needs these to be told to them and to be offered in books or through institutions, where the shared goal and meaning becomes comforting and the anxiety of free choice is replaced by commonality and conformity.

Freedom is terrifying, as Sartre knew it was.
Most prefer the tranquility and safety of slavery and in allowing authority figures to dictate their lives.

 

[§outh§tar]

My apologies, guess I have to get overly specific with foreigners. I thought it was pretty simple to pick up exactly what I was saying, but then everyone's different. I might aswell point out that my post does not say Africa is a country. What it says is that countries, (Africa etc) - which means countries in Africa. Need I list them all by name just to please a pedantic little snotbag?

Hehehe

For a "rationalist", you sure do have quite the arsenal of ad hocs and ad hominems up your sleeve don't you?

What I meant was "countries in Africa"..

It doesn't matter how much you cover your ass:

The less educated countries, (Africa etc), have the very high religiosity rates - 90%+, whereas the more educated countries have low religiosity -20%+

You named Africa as a "less educated" country. This is indisputable by all means as it is plainly evident. Don't make yourself look stupid by denying what you wrote on a public forum.

I wasn't even trying to be picky but now you have irked me. I was only pointing out the irony of you considering yourself "intelligent" for being an atheist, only to do something so daft.

Go fume all you want. It's there. Plain as day.