I'm not sure about this.
Doesn't the passage of time PROGRESS rather than regress?
It's our memory that move from present to past.
What is time??
- Thread starter Shadow1
- Start date
I'm not sure about this.
Doesn't the passage of time PROGRESS rather than regress?
It's our memory that move from present to past.
BallisticBrian
Registered Member
Lots of very confusing viewpoints on this thread. Time moved long before the invention of clocks, ever since the big bang in fact. We can see from particle collisions that elementary particles continue to exist through time and don't just dissappear so time must be part of space or the universe as opposed to a part of the atom. According to Hawking, if one such particle was approaching a black hole, it would get slower and slower in our viewpoint, until it seemed to stop on the event horizon. Without looking it up, I can't remeber why but by it could be something to do with the huge mass of a black hole...
So, time and clock are totally two different things. Clock measures the interval of time , the way tape measures the length or interval of space. If the tape is lengthened and length is measured, it will show as if length is shortened. Then, how dilation of time is proven through atomic clock ? Atomic clock is also a clock and should be independant of time and should measure only interval of time , may be with much more precision.
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Yes.
Yes.
Or rather a clock measures the passage of time.
What? If I measure something with a 2-metre tape does it become shorter if I next measure it with a 4-metre tape?
You'll have to explain that to me since it has most definitely not been my experience.
Ho hum.
Atomic clocks are not, and are not required to be, "independent of time". What is?
Time dilation is "proven" by comparing two separate clocks, one of which has undergone acceleration and one of which has not.
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Farbeit for me to interpret but I think he's talking about "stretching" a 2 meter tape to say 4 meters without changing the markings....thus accomplishing the same sort of thing as time dilation....well explained by Relativity but I'm sure he don't get it.
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I propose that we think time is algorithmic.
We "calculate" something that is a Newtonian function of velocity. Momentum is a function of mass and velocity--at low velocities mass is relatively constant, so Newtonian 'forces' are the time rate of change in momentum, to a "first approximation".
But in Einstein's picture there are timelike and spacelike 'curves', rather than changes in momentum, what gets calculated is relative flatness of the matter distribution--how much it's curving spacetime. How is this reconciled with something like orbital and angular velocity, like seeing the position of the earth and a meridian on the surface, relative to the sun, as a kind of clock? Is SR the "correction" in the algorithm, I mean?
If you want to think about distance, this is tied (algorithmically) to the way we use leap days, leap seconds etc, to correct for the fact that the number of rotations of this meridian, or any meridian, on the surface doesn't divide evenly into the distance the earth travels around the sun, or the orbital 'path' length.
We "calculate" something that is a Newtonian function of velocity. Momentum is a function of mass and velocity--at low velocities mass is relatively constant, so Newtonian 'forces' are the time rate of change in momentum, to a "first approximation".
But in Einstein's picture there are timelike and spacelike 'curves', rather than changes in momentum, what gets calculated is relative flatness of the matter distribution--how much it's curving spacetime. How is this reconciled with something like orbital and angular velocity, like seeing the position of the earth and a meridian on the surface, relative to the sun, as a kind of clock? Is SR the "correction" in the algorithm, I mean?
If you want to think about distance, this is tied (algorithmically) to the way we use leap days, leap seconds etc, to correct for the fact that the number of rotations of this meridian, or any meridian, on the surface doesn't divide evenly into the distance the earth travels around the sun, or the orbital 'path' length.
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Does "length" depend upon the existence of a tape measure?
Clocks depend upon time. If there were no such thing as time a clock would be unnecessary (and probably wouldn't work).
Ah okay. Can you explain how the tape stretches and what it's measuring doesn't? Are you simply asking about (for example) a tape made of elastic and stretching that? If so I don't understand your "point".
Tip.
Never measure for window glass with an old cloth tape.
When you get the glass, it will be too big.
When I went back with the glass, the glazier said:
"You measured with a metal tape, I assume"
Yes, I nodded.
"You know, we get women in here who measure with dress making tapes."
Then I said "A huuurhh hurrrh huurrh. Do they really?"
" Clocks depend upon time. If there were no such thing as time a clock would be unnecessary (and probably wouldn't work). "
--- The energy source of a clock is battery. Batteries are charged with electricity. I dont know if TIME can charge a battery.
" Ah okay. Can you explain how the tape stretches and what it's measuring doesn't? Are you simply asking about (for example) a tape made of elastic and stretching that? If so I don't understand your "point". "
--- The atomic clock which is accelerated in the rocket got dilated. Along with the atomic clock , if a normal clock is kept ; will it not get dilated ? Along with these clocks if a tape ( whether elastic or not ) is also placed ; will it not get dilated ?
And if there were no time then the current wouldn't flow, would it?
PS your claim that "the energy source of a clock is a battery" is a generalisation. Have you ever heard of clockwork? Water clocks? Etc.
And your point? If all of those objects are subject to acceleration then they will all undergo dilation.
As will any objects measured by the tape.
Step 1) the clock depends on time. The clock does nothing but measure/ delineate the passage of time.
Step 2) the clock "slows down".
Step 3) since the clock measures time (see step 1) then the clock slowing down must be an indication that time itself is doing so.
" If all of those objects are subject to acceleration then they will all undergo dilation.
As will any objects measured by the tape. "
--- So, basically it is a dilation of space and NOT dilation of time ( which is independent of clock ) . Dilation of time appears , because of the event of dilation of space.
As will any objects measured by the tape. "
--- So, basically it is a dilation of space and NOT dilation of time ( which is independent of clock ) . Dilation of time appears , because of the event of dilation of space.
No.
Space doesn't affect a clock. Time does.
BallisticBrian
Registered Member
Maybe the human mind has trouble comprehending existance without time in which absolutely nothing in our experience would be possible, no birth, no growth, no change, just the concepts of existing, everything, and BEing come to mind. If the bible is to be belived, God said he was the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Maybe if there is any reason for us to be here, maybe the universe was designed from the bottom up to take us through a serial life experience from beginning to end in which we can individually and collectively learn and grow, and can try to begin to understand.