What is the PC way for an atheist to express sympathy?

[thedevilsreject]

just say something along the lines of gutted for ya

 

[spuriousmonkey]

It's not what, it's who. And the answer is: atheists themselves.

But even atheists are often unable to cope with the hopelessness of their philosophy. I recently read an article about an atheist woman who wanted to make sure (or, as some people say, "brainwash") her child didn't get any exposure to such evil ideas as religion.

Inevitably one day the woman was faced with the dreadful question from her child: "mom, why do we have to die, I don't want to die". And here I could only pity the poor atheist mother. She basically told her child something like this:

"Don't worry honey, life is long and science is making progress. By the time you grow up, science will be so advanced you will be able to live for 200 years. You will live so much you will actually get tired of it"

You may call that hope. I call that despair.

Well, there is always the certainty that the atheist goes to hell. Theists can only hope they go to heaven.

Anyway, your example isn't a truth. There are plenty of atheist unafraid of death. And there are plenty of atheists who do not want to die but see it for what it is. Part of life.

 

[Sarkus]

But even atheists are often unable to cope with the hopelessness of their philosophy.

Often? Really? And you're basing this on what? One story?

Inevitably one day the woman was faced with the dreadful question from her child: "mom, why do we have to die, I don't want to die".

Why is this such a "dreadful" question?
We all die - it is an inevitable part of being alive.

And here I could only pity the poor atheist mother. She basically told her child something like this:

"Don't worry honey, life is long and science is making progress. By the time you grow up, science will be so advanced you will be able to live for 200 years. You will live so much you will actually get tired of it"

You may call that hope. I call that despair.

It seems like you are generalising about atheists and their hopes (or apparent lack of) based purely on your fears of death and that being it - i.e. no afterlife, eternal salvation etc.


So we should all hope for a life eternal.... because.... the alternative is unacceptable?
Maybe to you.

 

[Godless]

M*W you did the right thing, It don't matter to let them know your an atheist, many people don't know I'm an atheist. They are some family members, and friends, if the issue does not arise, I don't carry my beliefs on my shoulders.

I often sympathesice with people, their way, my way, all that shit don't matter, if you can confort them, and let them know your sympathis and feelings is good enough, your beliefs or theirs is no issue.


Who says atheist don't hope? Hope is not a religious thing, it's a conotation to expect a good outcome of any circumstance.

Confutatis you need to learn what atheism is, before making a jackass of yourself.

Godless

 

[Dinosaur]

Perhaps the mother should have said.

• There are many events over which we have no control. A rainy day when we want to go out and play; Not being as smart as Einstein or Bohr; Not being a famous celebrity. Dying some day is one of those events. It is best to spend time enjoying the life we have and taking charge of the events we can control. It is a waste of time, energy, and emotions to worry about those events we do not control.
  
  
• Some body once said: The coward dies a thousand times. The brave man only dies once. I like to say that those who worry about dying are using up precious time better spent enjoying life.

There is much in this life that I could spend time regretting. I prefer to think of all the ways my life has been good, usually ignoring the ways that it could have been better.

Yes, I would like to live forever, but I am not going to cost myself extra unhappy moments dwelling on my mortality.

BTW: I and most of the atheists I know are happy well adjusted people, having come to terms with their mortality in a different way that those who believe in an after life. I have noticed various references to atheists who apparently have not coped well with their mortality. Just as there are believers who do not cope well with their lives and question their faith, I suppose there are atheists who do not cope well and question their view.

 

[Confutatis]

Often? Really? And you're basing this on what? One story?

I'm basing it on my understanding of what atheism means, and it really means something quite simple: the universe doesn't care about us.

Why is this such a "dreadful" question? We all die - it is an inevitable part of being alive.

I fail to see why the fact that death is part of life should imply it's not a dreadful thing. Chemotherapy is also a part of life. Try telling a little child who's suffering from liver cancer that, "it's OK honey, it's part of life".

Sometimes I get the feeling that some people must be emotionally numb.

It seems like you are generalising about atheists and their hopes (or apparent lack of) based purely on your fears of death and that being it - i.e. no afterlife, eternal salvation etc.

I observe a curious phenomenon on discussion forums: often when a person fails to an antagonic point of view, they tend to believe the antagonist holds the point of view due to some fear. It's an interesting side to human behaviour that only shows up on internet forums, so it's novel to me and I don't really understand why people do it. In any case...

No, I'm not generalizing anything based on my fear of death because I'm not afraid of death. I am, I must confess, afraid of life. Quite afraid indeed. I am afraid of poverty, loneliness, disease, pain, depression, and a myriad monsters who keep haunting our brief existence on this planet. But I'm as afraid of my own death as I'm afraid of going to sleep. In a sense I die every night and I see no reason whatsoever to be afraid of it.

So we should all hope for a life eternal.... because.... the alternative is unacceptable?

I don't think we should all hope for life eternal, I think some people are fully entitled to believe life is ultimately meaningless. But I also think people should have consistent beliefs, and if you believe life is meaningless you should live as if it were. Nothing of this pretending that you see hope where none is to be found.

 

[(Q)]

I'm basing it on my understanding of what atheism means, and it really means something quite simple: the universe doesn't care about us.

Does that mean you firmly believe the universe was created just for us little ole' humans? Could you also point out the exact quote from scripture indicating the universe does in fact care for us?

I fail to see why the fact that death is part of life should imply it's not a dreadful thing. Chemotherapy is also a part of life. Try telling a little child who's suffering from liver cancer that, "it's OK honey, it's part of life".

Sometimes I get the feeling that some people must be emotionally numb.

Cancer is a part of life, but hopefully will be eradicated someday, not with any help from praying theists, of course, but with the scientific endevours of a rational and reasonable mankind.

No, I'm not generalizing anything based on my fear of death because I'm not afraid of death. I am, I must confess, afraid of life. Quite afraid indeed. I am afraid of poverty, loneliness, disease, pain, depression, and a myriad monsters who keep haunting our brief existence on this planet.

You should therefore immediately reject all religions and join those who wish to make the benefit of mankind its top priority.

I don't think we should all hope for life eternal, I think some people are fully entitled to believe life is ultimately meaningless. But I also think people should have consistent beliefs, and if you believe life is meaningless you should live as if it were. Nothing of this pretending that you see hope where none is to be found.

Therein lies the problem, there are no consistent beliefs, and there most likely never will be, that is why religion must be eradicated. Religion divides.

 

[Enterprise-D]

Medicine Woman, I think that your gesture was no reason to feel insincere, because your feelings were genuine. Take for example a Christian and a Hindu friendship. What if the Hindu individual suffers a death in the family? Would the Christian not respect the Hindu traditions in expressing condolences? (Most moders Christians would by the way)

Other:
Confutatis: Why do you think hope must depend on immortality as defined by your beliefs?

 

[Confutatis]

Therein lies the problem, there are no consistent beliefs, and there most likely never will be, that is why religion must be eradicated. Religion divides.

Your love for humanity must be so strong it's obfuscating my vision. I can only see hatred and contempt in your posts.

Honestly, do you give a rat's ass whether people are divided, be it by religion or anything else? I suspect you could care less, in which case you are just being a hypocrite.

 

[(Q)]

Your love for humanity must be so strong it's obfuscating my vision. I can only see hatred and contempt in your posts.

Honestly, do you give a rat's ass whether people are divided, be it by religion or anything else? I suspect you could care less, in which case you are just being a hypocrite.

Wow, only 30 odd posts any you've already depleted your arsenal.

Yes, I have contempt for religion, I thought I made that clear when I called for its eradication.

Did you just figure that out, Sherlock?

 

[Dinosaur]

It has been my experience that there are a higher percentage of hypocrites to be found among believers than among atheists. In absolute numbers it is not even close. Religious types who talk about hypocrisy should be told about glass houses and throwing stones.

 

[Bells]

*************
M*W: My oldest and dearest friend lost her mother recently. We were childhood friends and our mothers were good friends. Although we moved far away when I was a child, we all stayed in touch and visited them over the years. My friend does not know I am an atheist. The subject never came up. She and her family were devout Primative Baptists, I believe, as they live in the deep South. I bought two very elegant sympathy cards to send to my friend and her dad. They were religious cards. Although I felt hypocritical in sending religious sympathy cards, in my heart I knew this is what they understood and would be comfortable with. Yet, I feel I was deceptive with them, because I know I was not sincere. I'm not ashamed to be atheist, but my friend and her father just wouldn't understand, and it would defeat my purpose for sending them my condolences. My logic about this tells me that my purpose of sending cards would be to let them know how much I cared about them and understand their feelings about losing a loved one.

Did I do the right thing? Is there anything else I could or should have done considering our diverse philosophies?

~ Medicine*Woman

You did the right thing MW. It is merely a card, but it's the thought that counts the most. That you cared enough for them to put their needs first in what is for them the worst possible time shows that you care. Do not feel hypocritical about it. You did what was best for them and that is all that matters. Your beliefs do not come into it, what does count is what they believe and your respect for their beliefs. There are non-religious sympathy cards as well. In the end, it's the thought behind the card that matters, not the card itself.

A few weeks ago I too lost my best friend since childhood. His family are deeply religious and so was he and I was asked to deliver the eulogy. At first I agonised about whether to say anything religious in the eulogy. But in the end the answer was simple. I respected his beliefs and his family's and said that 'he was now with the God that he believed in with all his heart.. and that God ended his suffering but his spirit will live on in us always'. Did I feel hypocritical in saying this when I myself do not believe in God? The answer is no. It was what he believed. Right to the end he spoke that he would soon be with God when God finally ended his pain. As an atheist sitting by his bedside, I did not say that God does not exist. In all honesty I did not even think about it. I merely grieved the dearest friend I knew I was about to lose. It was when they asked me to deliver the eulogy about who he was and what he was that I felt a tad pained about it. But I spoke about who and what he was and what he believed in. Do I think that his spirit will live on in me and others? As I don't believe in the notion of 'spirit' in the religious sense, the answer is no. But I do believe that who he was will live on in those who knew him.

In the end MW, it is but a card. But it is what they believe in and you show the greatest humanity in respecting their beliefs.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

MW, I dislike fishing but see so harm in sending Grandpa who loves to fish a b'day card depicting a fishing scene. Hope this clarifies the position. ie your personal views are irrelevant, the card is for them not you and so should reflect their interests not yours. You did right.

 

[Confutatis]

It has been my experience that there are a higher percentage of hypocrites to be found among believers than among atheists.

It has been my perception that religious people in the US are a pain in the ass. I'm certainly happy I don't live there, and I would perhaps be an atheist if I did, just so I wouldn't be associated with them.

Unfortunately for me, everytime I show my support for religion on an English-speaking forum, people think I'm some gun-totting, creationist, pro-Bush redneck. And that makes debating difficult, but I still enjoy it.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: Thanks to all of you who expressed your wisdom. I realize there are times when being an atheist does not to be the focus of the situation, and I'm comfortable with that.

Many, many thanks.

~ Medicine*Woman

 

[tablariddim]

What I would say is, 'Sorry for your loss, at least now they're not suffering', or, 'Sorry for your loss, I loved him/her dearly and they will be greatly missed'. I simply cannot bring myself to mention god, afterlife and crap like that.

 

[James R]

Confutatis:

But even atheists are often unable to cope with the hopelessness of their philosophy.

Not in my experience.

I recently read an article about an atheist woman who wanted to make sure (or, as some people say, "brainwash") her child didn't get any exposure to such evil ideas as religion.

Inevitably one day the woman was faced with the dreadful question from her child: "mom, why do we have to die, I don't want to die". And here I could only pity the poor atheist mother. She basically told her child something like this:

"Don't worry honey, life is long and science is making progress. By the time you grow up, science will be so advanced you will be able to live for 200 years. You will live so much you will actually get tired of it"

How is her response any better than:

"Don't worry honey, there's an old man who lives in the sky, and after you die you'll go on living with him. So, don't worry about what you do in this life; your real, important life is yet to come. Your life here on Earth is worthless anyway, so don't worry about it."

 

[Michael]

I think you did what was right by them and in this sense by yourself as well. It really is their best wishes that went into that card.


Michael

On the side: I recently lived in a Buddhist Temple for a couple of months. While the family knew I was Atheist, so there was no need to explain anything, I certainly didn't make a point of our belief difference. And neither did they and we got along perfectly.

Live and let live.

If we want to debate a religious issue we can always come here

 

[Crunchy Cat]

*************
M*W: My oldest and dearest friend lost her mother recently... I bought two very elegant sympathy... religious cards... I felt hypocritical... I feel I was deceptive with them... I'm not ashamed to be atheist... logic... tells me that my purpose of sending cards would be to let them know how much I cared about them and understand their feelings about losing a loved one.

Did I do the right thing?

Nope. You did something that made you feel hypocritical and deceptive. We both know that right and wrong are purely subjective and for you, the wrong action was taken. What comes out of the experience is wisdom. You'll have future opportunities (hopefully not under such dire circumstances) to do the right thing .

Is there anything else I could or should have done considering our diverse philosophies?

Just give them all the support they need and don't cross the line of your integrity (e.x. if they ask you to keep them company at church then that might be ok... and if they ask you to perform the burial prayer then deciine).

 

[(Q)]

It has been my perception that religious people in the US are a pain in the ass. I'm certainly happy I don't live there, and I would perhaps be an atheist if I did, just so I wouldn't be associated with them.

Is your grasp on your religion so tenuous that geographical or sociological differences will decide it for you? Wait a minute, yes it does!

Unfortunately for me, everytime I show my support for religion on an English-speaking forum, people think I'm some gun-totting, creationist, pro-Bush redneck. And that makes debating difficult, but I still enjoy it.

I don't think of you that way at all. Perhaps you're viewed more a pseudo-intellect living in your parents basement? You've certainly shown signs of anti-social behaviour.

Or, you could be a redneck. Who cares?