What is the PC way for an atheist to express sympathy?

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: My oldest and dearest friend lost her mother recently. We were childhood friends and our mothers were good friends. Although we moved far away when I was a child, we all stayed in touch and visited them over the years. My friend does not know I am an atheist. The subject never came up. She and her family were devout Primative Baptists, I believe, as they live in the deep South. I bought two very elegant sympathy cards to send to my friend and her dad. They were religious cards. Although I felt hypocritical in sending religious sympathy cards, in my heart I knew this is what they understood and would be comfortable with. Yet, I feel I was deceptive with them, because I know I was not sincere. I'm not ashamed to be atheist, but my friend and her father just wouldn't understand, and it would defeat my purpose for sending them my condolences. My logic about this tells me that my purpose of sending cards would be to let them know how much I cared about them and understand their feelings about losing a loved one.

Did I do the right thing? Is there anything else I could or should have done considering our diverse philosophies?

~ Medicine*Woman

 

[The Devil Inside]

i cant help but laugh at the irony of someone not knowing if they have been offensive when expressing sympathy.....but considers themselves ready to attach "atheist" values to how it should be done.

weird.
:m:

 

[Carcano]

*************
I'm not ashamed to be atheist, but my friend and her father just wouldn't understand...

Well, if your friend and her father CANNOT understand and respect the fact that there are other ideologies in the world whose followers number in the billions, then they are indeed TRUE Christians, as this lack of tolerance is exactly what the new testament teaches. In which case, it doesn't matter what you do, because in their eyes, you are going to hell anyway.

Death is no tragedy compared to the wasting of one's life with these narrow-minded doctrines...sympathize with that instead - not that it will do them any good.

 

[spidergoat]

I think you did the right thing. Your choice of card would be most appreciated by them, and least assertive of your own ideology which, in relation to their loss, is irrelevent.

 

[Arete]

*************
M*W: My oldest and dearest friend lost her mother recently. We were childhood friends and our mothers were good friends. Although we moved far away when I was a child, we all stayed in touch and visited them over the years. My friend does not know I am an atheist. The subject never came up. She and her family were devout Primative Baptists, I believe, as they live in the deep South. I bought two very elegant sympathy cards to send to my friend and her dad. They were religious cards. Although I felt hypocritical in sending religious sympathy cards, in my heart I knew this is what they understood and would be comfortable with. Yet, I feel I was deceptive with them, because I know I was not sincere. I'm not ashamed to be atheist, but my friend and her father just wouldn't understand, and it would defeat my purpose for sending them my condolences. My logic about this tells me that my purpose of sending cards would be to let them know how much I cared about them and understand their feelings about losing a loved one.

Did I do the right thing? Is there anything else I could or should have done considering our diverse philosophies?

~ Medicine*Woman

I think you are a truely great friend, b/c you looked at things from their perspective. I think it would be unwise to let your friend know your atheist at a moment like this in their life. According to their beliefs she is in eternal paridise now, and to say otherwise like "o shes just gonna rot in the ground" would truely devistate the person. Although you claim you were not sincere, your action clearly shows you are, because you took time to think what the best thing to do for them would be, regardless of beliefs.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I think you are a truely great friend, b/c you looked at things from their perspective. I think it would be unwise to let your friend know your atheist at a moment like this in their life. According to their beliefs she is in eternal paridise now, and to say otherwise like "o shes just gonna rot in the ground" would truely devistate the person. Although you claim you were not sincere, your action clearly shows you are, because you took time to think what the best thing to do for them would be, regardless of beliefs.

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M*W: Thank you, spidergoat and arete. I feel much better now about my decision to send religious cards. You're right. It wasn't about me. It was for them.

 

[kirstykiwi]

Hi medicine woman.
Blank cards with a nature scene is impartial, but as the other poster said, it is about them I guess

 

[Athelwulf]

There ain't nothing wrong with sending a religious card to express your sympathies. You're sympathizing with them in their language, so to speak. I would've personally went for a card devoid of any mention of a religion, but that's me.

 

[Sarkus]

There ain't nothing wrong with sending a religious card to express your sympathies. You're sympathizing with them in their language, so to speak. I would've personally went for a card devoid of any mention of a religion, but that's me.

The worst is when you receive religious cards expressing sympathy when you yourself are an atheist!
When that happens you accept the sympathy for what it is and ignore the religious connotations that you don't hold with.

So when sending sympathy cards I really don't think it matters whether the person receiving them is religious or not, or whether the person giving the card is religious or not - it is the fact that you are expressing sympathy that is important. So any card that is honest to the feeling is okay.

 

[The Devil Inside]

The worst is when you receive religious cards expressing sympathy when you yourself are an atheist!

i equate it to a vegetarian getting an advertisement for a new steak diner.

i fail to see how its "the worst". i would think a hearty chuckle at the folks that dont know you very well would be the more common reaction.

or is it that atheism looks down on those who dont believe the same?

 

[Sarkus]

i fail to see how its "the worst". i would think a hearty chuckle at the folks that dont know you very well would be the more common reaction.

But they do know - and so the religious bit is clearly for them, not for the one receiving. Or they are subconciously trying to subvert the receiver to their way of thinking, even in their time of need. Either way it is annoying - at least it was to me.

Ah well.

 

[Confutatis]

Chesterton said that the worst moment for an atheist is when he feels extremely grateful but has no one to thank. But there is another difficult moment: it's when the atheist is in desperate need of something he's convinced does not exist. Namely, hope.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

A very astute obersavation.

 

[GeoffP]

Why the debate? Why would anyone fault you for sending non-religious sympathy cards?

Is there an atheist sympathy card?

And would it read something like:

**********************************************************

"Dear XX,

I cannot begin to express my deepest reciprocal sentiment regarding the death of your resource-sharing kin of fixed relationship.

I imagine that you are experiencing a cognitive disjunct from the lack of sensory contact, and I am sure that it could be a reasonable prediction at a=0.05 that their fitness returns to you exceeded that ratio dictated by your individual pairwise relatedness index, F. If so, please accept my condolences at a rate appropriate to the extent of our personal contact and economic co-operation, which I would be happy to extend at any time, assuming equal or superior return from you in any later interval where the cost to my own fitness is not exceeded by p'=(Wc-Wbar))/Wbar. Please also convey my acknowledgement and cognitive recognition to your family.

Your mutually-cooperative ally in eternity, or until such time as Wd>F0+cT+(1-c)P,

XX"

**********************************************************

Or in short: don't worry about it. Your sentiments matter more than the kind of card.

Geoff

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Why the debate? Why would anyone fault you for sending non-religious sympathy cards?

Is there an atheist sympathy card?

And would it read something like:

**********************************************************

"Dear XX,

I cannot begin to express my deepest reciprocal sentiment regarding the death of your resource-sharing kin of fixed relationship.

I imagine that you are experiencing a cognitive disjunct from the lack of sensory contact, and I am sure that it could be a reasonable prediction at a=0.05 that their fitness returns to you exceeded that ratio dictated by your individual pairwise relatedness index, F. If so, please accept my condolences at a rate appropriate to the extent of our personal contact and economic co-operation, which I would be happy to extend at any time, assuming equal or superior return from you in any later interval where the cost to my own fitness is not exceeded by p'=(Wc-Wbar))/Wbar. Please also convey my acknowledgement and cognitive recognition to your family.

Your mutually-cooperative ally in eternity, or until such time as Wd>F0+cT+(1-c)P,

XX"

**********************************************************

Or in short: don't worry about it. Your sentiments matter more than the kind of card.

Geoff

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M*W: Thanks, Geoff! You made me laugh!

 

[Dinosaur]

I use my computer to make up sympathy cards when the need arises.

If I thought it was necessary to make those who are grieving feel a bit better, I would not consider it hypocritical or ethically wrong to make reference to god or some religious concepts.

I usually say or write something like the following.

• If I knew of something to say that would make this tragedy less painful, I would gladly say it.

When tragedy strikes, there is nothing you can do or say to help. All you can do is show that you care.

 

[one_raven]

I have seen quite a few sympathy cards that make no mention of religion at all in them.
What would be the harm in sending one of these?
You can express your sympathy and grieving without talking about Jesus, and I hardly think that would “out” you as a non-believer.
I understand not wanting to take your atheism and parade it in her face at the time, and that, at cursory glance, seems understanding of you, but who said you have to say, “Well, I am an atheist, so I didn’t pick out a religious card. I hope you understand that, you sad, primitive believer, you.”?

Beyond that, I honestly think it is sad that you not only have so much apparent disdain for your so-called “friend’s” belief, that you would refer to her as a “Primitive Baptist”, but you use that contempt to justify the sanctimonious way you placate her.
“I will deign to express my sympathy for your loss, even though you are just a simple unevolved beast that couldn’t possibly comprehend my advanced perspective, so I suppose I will have to lower myself to your level and pretend I am just as unsophisticated and backward as you. Here’s a cookie.”
Your arrogance bewilders me.

 

[James R]

I see no problem with being honest. There's no need in this context to ram your atheism down anybody's throat. Why not just send a card which says "It is with profound regret that I heard of your recent lost, and you have my deepest sympathies." No need to put any religious spin on this; just tell her how you really feel. She doesn't need to know you're atheist. Why is it even an issue?

 

[James R]

Confutatis:

Chesterton said that the worst moment for an atheist is when he feels extremely grateful but has no one to thank. But there is another difficult moment: it's when the atheist is in desperate need of something he's convinced does not exist. Namely, hope.

What makes you think that atheists have no hope?

 

[Confutatis]

Confutatis:

What makes you think that atheists have no hope?

It's not what, it's who. And the answer is: atheists themselves.

But even atheists are often unable to cope with the hopelessness of their philosophy. I recently read an article about an atheist woman who wanted to make sure (or, as some people say, "brainwash") her child didn't get any exposure to such evil ideas as religion.

Inevitably one day the woman was faced with the dreadful question from her child: "mom, why do we have to die, I don't want to die". And here I could only pity the poor atheist mother. She basically told her child something like this:

"Don't worry honey, life is long and science is making progress. By the time you grow up, science will be so advanced you will be able to live for 200 years. You will live so much you will actually get tired of it"

You may call that hope. I call that despair.