What is "Rape Culture"?

[parmalee]

Source: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3r6po8

The only one "whining" here would seem to be you. And having gone through my post several times, I'm at a real loss for what can be construed as "childish tantrum" or "personal insults." Certainly, my second post, in which I called you an idiot is most assuredly a personal insult (the kind that idiots such as yourself are wont to call ad hominem, which it most certainly is not)--but where are these insults and the "childish tantrum" in my preceding post? Can you help me out here?

And please do try to elaborate in you own freakin' words, and not with some silly meme that the 'tween crowd are so enamored of. Keep in mind that most of the participants within this thread are adults, well out of high school and well into their "careers"--or, at the very least, well out of their ineffectual, teen angst-y phases.

Also, if you don't mind my asking, what exactly is you area of expertise?

 

[tali89]

You attempted to pounce on me in this thread by whining about my supposed ignorance and trolling. When I pointed out that you probably should form opinions on an issue *after* gathering relevant and reliable data, you ignored my observation and chose instead to focus on my observation that you're behaving like the stereotypical whiny liberal. Given that you haven't offered up anything relevant to the topic, instead choosing to harp on about my supposed ignorance/trolling, I feel that 'silly memes' are all that you merit.

Honestly, I don't understand why senior lefties on this forum continually pick fights with me, when I've repeatedly demonstrated that I'm not bamboozled by their misrepresentations and faulty assumptions. Bells, iceaura, Tiassa, James R, and other such prominent leftists have all tapped out when challenged to support their claims, but not before condescending to extremely personal and vitriolic insults. At this point I'm starting to wonder if leftists are masochists. Do they enjoy getting verbally trounced? Is that why they keep coming back for more, even after having been sent packing numerous times? They seem so angry and hateful when arguing with me, so perhaps they actually *enjoy* getting riled up and dwelling in a hateful mindset.

 

[parmalee]

You attempted to pounce on me in this thread by whining...

Can you define "whining," in your own words?

about my supposed ignorance and trolling. ... instead choosing to harp on about my supposed ignorance/trolling...

Can you read?

me
So what are we to conclude? Tali strikes me as, at the very least, “average,” but he/she keeps a’ coming with these bullshit strawman and “factoids” and whatnots, all of which suggests that Tali hasn’t a clue as to what is meant by “culture” within this context. But I’m not buying it. No one is that fucking stupid (well, some are, but I don’t think that Tali is)

(emphasis added)

I'm "harping" about your trolling, I think it's pretty clear that I do NOT believe that you are as ignorant as you pretend.

Honestly, I don't understand why senior lefties on this forum continually pick fights with me, when I've repeatedly demonstrated that I'm not bamboozled by their misrepresentations and faulty assumptions. Bells, iceaura, Tiassa, James R, and other such prominent leftists have all tapped out when challenged to support their claims, but not before condescending to extremely personal and vitriolic insults. At this point I'm starting to wonder if leftists are masochists. Do they enjoy getting verbally trounced?

Whom have you "verbally trounced"? I've seen plenty of support for the claims made within this thread, and very little by you. Instead, you choose to fabricate strawmen about "organized gangs of rapists" (regardless, as has already been pointed out to you, such do in fact exist, i.e., the Catholic Church); the supposed relevance of exact numbers of rape and sexual assault--in spite of the fact that such are enormously difficult to come by, again, as has been explained to you ad nauseum (you know, under-reporting out of fear of reprisal, shame, embarassment, etc.); how our culture and media "glorify" rape (this may have been Bowser, if so, my apologies)--you know, something about subtlety and nuance go here; you claim you've never heard a rape joke--truly mind-blowing, that one is. I mean ,for fuck's sake, I haven't even had a television in over 15 years (I watch stuff online, and previously on DVD), and yet I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many I've heard. I take it you've never seen Borat, watched SNL, seen Louis C.K.--I could go on here for fucking hours.

Is that why they keep coming back for more, even after having been sent packing numerous times? They seem so angry and hateful when arguing with me, so perhaps they actually *enjoy* getting riled up and dwelling in a hateful mindset.

Yeah, sure. That must be it. I really think you've nailed it here.


Edit: Also, I reiterate:

me

And having gone through my post several times, I'm at a real loss for what can be construed as "childish tantrum" or "personal insults." Certainly, my second post, in which I called you an idiot is most assuredly a personal insult (the kind that idiots such as yourself are wont to call ad hominem, which it most certainly is not)--but where are these insults and the "childish tantrum" in my preceding post? Can you help me out here?

 

[tali89]

Can you define "whining," in your own words?

You appear to have internet access, so I'd assume you're more than capable of perusing an online dictionary and seeing how the definition of 'whining' fits your behavior. Attempting to have me define commonly used terms for you is nothing more than you filibustering. Explain to me why you have formed an opinion about the ubiquity of rape culture when you have acknowledged that obtaining relevant hard data in regards to the real prevalence of rape and sexual assault is 'damn hard to come by'

Can you read?
...
I'm "harping" about your trolling, I think it's pretty clear that I do NOT believe that you are as ignorant as you pretend.

Your presented the false dichotomy that I must either be ignorant, or trolling. You discarded the former explanation after some whining and baseless assumptions, but that doesn't chance the fact that you mentioned it to begin with.

Whom have you "verbally trounced"? I've seen plenty of support for the claims made within this thread, and very little by you.

*chuckle* I have no doubt you feel that way. You make assumptions about the prevalence of rape and sexual assault in 'culture' (whose culture remains unspecified, as far as I can tell), and then admitted that it's pretty damn hard to find data that accurately represents the real prevalence of rape and sexual assault. You've essentially put the cart ahead of the horse, and are ignoring or re-interpreting facts to fit your preconceived worldviews. That's essentially what every one of my detractors has done in this thread, to the point that some resorted to blatant circular logic.

And having gone through my post several times, I'm at a real loss for what can be construed as "childish tantrum" or "personal insults."

That's no surprise, as the left wingers I've encountered have difficulty turning a critical eye on their own behavior . Anyway, feel free to whine about how I'm trolling while failing to support any of your assumptions with substantial evidence. Your petulant foot-stomping might draw a moderator's attention, much like a baby bird crying out for its mother.

 

[parmalee]

You appear to have internet access, so I'd assume you're more than capable of perusing an online dictionary and seeing how the definition of 'whining' fits your behavior. Attempting to have me define commonly used terms for you is nothing more than you filibustering. Explain to me why you have formed an opinion about the ubiquity of rape culture when you have acknowledged that obtaining relevant hard data in regards to the real prevalence of rape and sexual assault is 'damn hard to come by'

Guess you overlooked the"in your own words" bit. And, once again--for the umpteenth time--you seem incapable of distinguishing between hard empirical sciences and social sciences.

Your presented the false dichotomy that I must either be ignorant, or trolling. You discarded the former explanation after some whining and baseless assumptions, but that doesn't chance the fact that you mentioned it to begin with.

I'm not sure that you understand what a "false dichotomy" is.

*chuckle* I have no doubt you feel that way. You make assumptions about the prevalence of rape and sexual assault in 'culture' (whose culture remains unspecified, as far as I can tell), and then admitted that it's pretty damn hard to find data that accurately represents the real prevalence of rape and sexual assault. You've essentially put the cart ahead of the horse, and are ignoring or re-interpreting facts to fit your preconceived worldviews. That's essentially what every one of my detractors has done in this thread, to the point that some resorted to blatant circular logic.

Heh. "Circular logic."

That's no surprise, as the left wingers I've encountered have difficulty turning a critical eye on their own behavior . Anyway, feel free to whine about how I'm trolling while failing to support any of your assumptions with substantial evidence. Your petulant foot-stomping might draw a moderator's attention, much like a baby bird crying out for its mother.

"Petulant foot stomping." "Whining." Left-wingers, leftoids, feminists, socialists. Seriously, are you a bot?

 

[tali89]

Thanks for demonstrating that you had nothing to contribute to this discussion other than a whinge about how I'm trolling. Off you toddle, the grown ups are talking.

 

[billvon]

The rest of your post is nothing more than a childish tantrum consisting of little more than personal attacks. I think that image summarizes up your foot stamping quite well:

It is unfortunate that you can do no better than to post cartoons when asked for substance. It does, however, indicate the level of discourse you are capable of.

 

[tali89]

Mmm, seems like liberals are still coming out of their hive. It's a shame they can't substantiate the claims of their colleagues, or bother to read the thread in its entirety before commenting.

 

[Tiassa]

The Smile

​

A note on innocuity:

The most popular excuse I hear for why men tell women to smile is that they're flirting. This reasoning makes a disturbing sense to me. When men come of age in a society that says women are prettier when they smile, then some men will expect to see those smiles or feel entitled to make them appear if they're not readily available. This explains the behavior, but doesn't excuse it, which is why I want men to understand how I feel as a woman when they tell me to smile.

When a man tells me to smile, I feel like I've been contracted to provide aesthetic entertainment for him―a contract I never signed. I've become more like an object in his eyes, which makes it easier for him to mold me into what he wants to see. It may sound extreme, but it reminds me of a dog owner telling his pet to perform a trick. Basically, I feel objectified. After a man tells me to smile, I always tell my girlfriends about it, and we always shake our heads over the fact that it happened yet again. And when I hear a man using the smile gimmick to flirt, a definite miscommunication results. While he hears himself expressing romantic interest, I hear him trying to exert control over me and my actions. The man who tells a woman to smile should understand that he has no more control over her smile than he does over any other part of her body.

I hear the argument, "If you smiled more, men wouldn't feel the need to tell you to." But why is there a "need" at all? Is the image of women not smiling so intolerable that some men feel the need to coax it out of us? And that argument places blame on women, which sounds like telling a woman that if she'd worn the right clothes she wouldn't have been assaulted. Another argument is that smiling can improve people's moods. So maybe men just want to cheer me up and make me stop thinking about myself so much. But why is it only men saying it to me? Women never tell me to smile. And nobody tells men to smile―especially not other men.

(Capogna↱)​

Is innocuity even a word?

Oh, hey.

There's a pickup line right there: Smile, baby! Did you know 'innocuity' is really a word?

Okay, quiz time: How many times could I try saying that to a random dude passing on the street before someone kicks me in the teeth?

There are, technically, no wrong answers; I have no intention of testing the issue.
____________________

Notes:

Capogna, Kyle. "How I Feel When Men Tell Me to Smile". The Huffington Post. 4 December 2015. HuffingtonPost.com. 7 December 2015. http://huff.to/1POZtNs

 

[iceaura]

You ignored the associated question:

Yep.

Quantify 'most', and provide evidence that 'most' women are subjected to 'continual public and private harassment'

No, I'll just let you deny it over and over in public, with your name attached to the denial. That will do for any honest inquiry into what evidence we have of a rape culture, as opposed to the occasional psycho rapist, in the US.

So if an episode of sexual harassment experienced by a woman doesn't lead to sexual assault or rape, it's not a big deal?

The word "threat" was employed. It's in your dictionary, between "tantrum" and "tubthumping". Reading all the words in the posts is very helpful in responding.

It's clear that attempting to use instances of sexual harassment against women as evidence of 'rape culture' is nothing more than cherry picking by prejudicial feminists who have double standards

Which is why I've been using stuff like your posts, in particular your description of that harassment video, instead.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

So since it's too hard for you to find data that reflects the real prevalence of rape, that absolves you from being required to support assumptions that at least partly rely on such data? Wouldn't it be more intellectually honest to form an opinion *after* obtaining the relevant facts and data?

The rest of your post is nothing more than a childish tantrum consisting of little more than personal attacks. I think that image summarizes up your foot stamping quite well:

How about prisons?

 

[milkweed]

There is a saying/song(s) "misery loves company". And then there is the rest of the world:

From video: I conducted an independent project, which evidently turned into a social experiment halfway through, regarding beauty at my performing arts high school in Chicago. I want to clarify that my intentions were not to get a reaction out of people.

 

[milkweed]

and along the same theme, Look at All the Smiles!!

 

[Tiassa]

Seems kind of irrelevant to me. Or was this social experiment planned as justification for sexual harassment?

 

[milkweed]

Seems kind of irrelevant to me. Or was this social experiment planned as justification for sexual harassment?

Awww....
Smile!!


Edit: Time expired on first video. Heres the tally:

26 smiles
3 no reaction
1 threat.

Typically people respond positively to being told they are beautiful. Society is designed around what works for the largest number of participants, not the outliers.

If you have a problem with being handed a compliment, you are the outlier. I personally dont want to be dragged down to the level of unhappiness the one had, rather, I enjoyed the responses of the 26.

Is the glass half full or half empty?
Answer: Your using the wrong sized glass.

 

[Tiassa]

If you have a problem with being handed a compliment, you are the outlier.

I just think there's a reason why you're so transparently trying to maintain a useless juxtaposition. Your attempt to deceive people about the reality of street harassment is nothing more than rape advocacy.

 

[milkweed]

I just think there's a reason why you're so transparently trying to maintain a useless juxtaposition. Your attempt to deceive people about the reality of street harassment is nothing more than rape advocacy.

You are the deceiver:

Okay, quiz time: How many times could I try saying that to a random dude passing on the street before someone kicks me in the teeth?

There are, technically, no wrong answers; I have no intention of testing the issue.

You dont have to test it, others did (see video #2).

Lemme see, your IMAGINATION or videos of what really happened.....
So tell me again about useless juxtapositions.

 

[Tiassa]

You dont have to test it, others did (see video #2).

I'm sorry, would you direct me to the specific point in the video where he tries that line? Or calls another man "baby"?

See, the thing is you're just making it up as you go. There are a number of observable differences between street harassment and what you are trying to construe it as.

Indeed, it's a familiar pretense, like watching politicians scramble in defense against the oppression by calling for oppression; it is as if they believe all that talk about how the other side just needs to say, "Civil rights", and magic happens, so they try it for themselves and don't understand why it doesn't work when the civil right they're demanding is the power of censorship, denial of equal protection, and outright bigotry.

Your appeal isn't working because it is a defense of innocuity, and relies on the obervably fallacious presupposition that street harassment is innocuous flirting.

Just as Kim Davis cannot distinguish between the civil right of equality and the asserted civil right of supremacism under law, so apparently do you fail to distinguish between street harassment and situationally-constricted experimentation.

Just like the bit about the blonde and the breathalyzer not being a rape joke, the only real argument that street harassment isn't occurring is to say it isn't harassment.

 

[billvon]

If you have a problem with being handed a compliment, you are the outlier.

Or, in the past, that compliment was followed by an attempt to get into a given woman's pants. Have that happen enough to you, and after a while your first reaction will not be "why thank you! What a wonderful person!" but caution.

 

[iceaura]

If you have a problem with being handed a compliment, you are the outlier

Every abusive asshole in the world uses that line. "Hey, I was just trying to be nice."

You don't really expect anyone here to buy it, do you?