What is God's mercy?
- Thread starter wynn
- Start date
mer·cy (mûrs) KEY
NOUN:
pl. mer·cies
Compassionate treatment, especially of those under one's power; clemency.
A disposition to be kind and forgiving: a heart full of mercy.
Something for which to be thankful; a blessing: It was a mercy that no one was hurt.
Alleviation of distress; relief: Taking in the refugees was an act of mercy.
NOUN:
pl. mer·cies
Compassionate treatment, especially of those under one's power; clemency.
A disposition to be kind and forgiving: a heart full of mercy.
Something for which to be thankful; a blessing: It was a mercy that no one was hurt.
Alleviation of distress; relief: Taking in the refugees was an act of mercy.
well what don't you understand then? mercy is mercy. apply it to god. :shrug:
Except that God (bible God) is both merciful and unmerciful simultaneously. I mean honestly, I'm pretty good at reasoning things out. But I just can't resolve this one to my satisfaction unless at some point I ignore or try to sneak past what the bible clearly teaches.
I've heard all the arguments. In fact I've made them all myself. Hell is not really a fiery furnace, it's just a metaphor for spiritual separation from God. God doesn't send us there, we effectively choose to go. Blah blah blah et cetera et cetera. I've even tried to argue around the apparent finality of eternal damnation with sneaky semantical tricks and novel scriptural interpretations. But in the end it's all pretty clear. If you're not right with God when the end comes, you're screwed. Forever. And being right with God means more than just paying him lip service and trying to be a decent person. Being right with God means significant personal sacrifices and lifestyle changes. You basically have to repent of all your sins, become a disciple of Jesus Christ and actively try to bring as many other people to God as you possibly can for the rest of your life. That is what the Bible demands.
Ok, fine. Let's assume that God is real, the Bible is his message to us, and that we need to put it all into practice. So off I go and do just that. Not just for the sake of it but because I've found God and I've genuinely embraced it all. Jackpot. Eternal salvation. It's not a lottery of course, but it is a reward. The Bible characterizes it as such. Life couldn't be better (life on Earth, that is). But eventually something occurs to me and slowly starts eating away at my newfound joy. I love my Mum. I love my little brothers and sisters. I love my Grandmother. But even worse than that (and you might get why it's worse in just a second), I love my dead Grandfather. My Dad wasn't in the picture when I was growing up so he was the closest thing I had to a father. And he died a couple of years ago. I imagine that you can already see where I'm going with this.
My Grandfather was the most generous man I have ever known. He had his faults that's for sure, but there's nothing he wouldn't have done for me, his family or his friends. I have very fond memories of him. We sprinkled his ashes into the ocean near where he grew up after he died. But as much as I loved him, he was apparently afflicted with the greatest flaw of all. He was agnostic, and certainly not a disciple of Jesus Christ. According to the Bible, he's going to burn in hell forever. And if I (or someone else) can't manage to bring them to God before they die, my mother, my grandmother, my two little brothers and sisters and all my friends are destined to meet the same fate. Suddenly I'm not feeling so fucking happy about going to heaven one day. What do you think I'm going to be thinking about the whole time I'm there?
I'm sorry for making this post so personal. But it's necessary to explore the reality of what we're talking about. It is personal. And when you look at it, the way it really is, ultimately there is no fucking mercy, not for all of us anyway. So to answer the question posed by the OP, "What is God's Mercy?", when all is said and done I can't see how you could argue that he has any.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
I agree with Lori (eek!). Go to a dictionary, read the definition of 'mercy', and then apply the definition to whatever the word 'God' is being defined as. Simple enough.
If there are any problems with that, then the problems are likely going to be internal to the theologies of particular religions. It probably will be very difficult to argue that the dictionary definition of 'mercy' is logically consistent with some of the nastier stories and doctrines that can be found in some religious texts.
But again, that's a theological discussion as opposed to a philosophical one. It only going to arise for people who feel the need to embrace the traditional stories that generate the conflicts.
Nice post. Touching really, I know what you mean.
Even good people go to hell.
There's something very wrong with the scriptures or our interpretation of them. Or perhaps it's all just a method of brainwashing people.
No matter how you slice it, that's just bullshit. If it is true that good people go to hell, then I am definitely ready to see what we can do to stop god from condemning good people to an afterlife of misery.
If hell is just life without god, well then we're all in it.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
The concept of 'God' is problematic.
First, there are abstract philosophical functions -- first-cause, basis of being, designer and goal. Second, there's personalizing -- the functions being consolidated into one single object which is then conceived as being a personality modeled on our own. And third, there's mythologizing -- the idea that this supernatural person is uniquely revealed in particular traditions, texts and stories.
That's a serious, and to my mind fatal, ethical flaw in that traditional mythology. It raises the question whether this particular image of 'God', assuming hypothetically it was actually true and accurate, would even be worthy of mankind's love and worship.
If 'God' is morally and ethically indistinguishable from 'Satan', essentially one and the same, then should humans really be worshipping and honoring and loving the monstrous thing? Wouldn't the refusal to bow down and kiss omnipotent evil's butt, even in full knowledge that any refusal will bring about eternal never-ending torment, be the most honorable and courageous act imaginable?
That really changes the idea of heaven, doesn't it? How could any person with a single ounce of integrity enjoy themselves in heavenily bliss, basking in the beatific vision, knowing full well that their friends and loved ones are having their skin boiled off, for ever and ever and ever, in God's unspeakable basement down below. The poisonous evil in this traditional vision of God not only corrupts God personally, making him identical with and indistinguishable from Satan, it corrupts all of his heartless devotees as well. There's a total and utterly appalling lack of compassion implicit in this whole picture.
I'm glad you did.
I would say that the doctrines and stories told by one family of religious myths generates what might be fatal ethical problems.
Put into theological terms, here's the issue:
It's idolatry to worship something that isn't God as if it were. That presumably applies to our conceptions as well as our physical images of God. If we conceive of God as something less than we are, not incomparably more, and if our stories make God guilty of behavior that we would never for an instant accept in ourselves and in our neighbors, behavior that would make even Adolph Hitler recoil in horror, then that image of God probably isn't something worth pursuing.
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Because religion is a self-serving concept. In its vice, the only thing you should be concerned about is your own relationship with God. What others are doing is none of your business and for God to judge. Your friend is not going to be standing with you at judgment time.
And if you don't believe that as a theist, then you must be the type that doesn't recognize the plank in your own eye.
Religion teaches selflessness for the sake of oneself, if that makes any sense...I have yet to meet a theist who said, "I don't give a damn about going to heaven, I just want to see everyone I know who wants to make it there does." It's all about God and the single theist. Christians have coined the phrase "a personal relationship" with Jesus/God.
A fantasy.
I was gonna say a delusion...But that works too.
Is that what mercy means? I forgot.
Your grand-pa can come into the heart of the great house. We will show mercy to him and he can be part of the lives of the living that have a part in life by you and Me. By your remembering and by Me from you telling about him. Your Grand-pa sounds like he was a wonderful man.
Everybody Mercy is for you to give , it is an attribute to adopt as to make god's spirit live by your actions. I don't know why these things are not clear in your minds. Have Mercy I do d eclair . Yummy I want one , cookies too, and a glass of Milk
Oh come one spidy man , There you go spreading rumors about Me. I got a little fantasy for you . It involves a little dutch woman and a candy Cain and your going to like it . Then we will see what you think about your own fantasy
candy Cain? I'm Abel.
I got a special little paddle for you son , You will need it when up are up stink creek in the Bob Marshal. Call someone you love and show them a little mercy would you do that for Me, Would Yeah?
You are Hilarious is what you are!