What is God?
- Thread starter baumgarten
- Start date
I'm quite happy with all the responses so far. They have been rather variant, as I expected, especially between theists and atheists.
I like this juxtaposition:
samcdkey said:
Both make a great deal of sense to me. Cris seemingly treats God as a distinct physical object that could be observed and measured. Sam, on the other hand, offers a more metaphysical definition, describing God as an inherent property of reality as we subjectively experience it. I don't think these two definitions are reconcilable; Cris and sam are clearly using the same word to describe two completely different things.Cris said:
This brings me to my next question: Why do you think your definition of God is what it is?
baumgarten said:
My definition is based on my study of the Quran.
According to the Quran, God has no form or shape, he is ubiquitous and all-encompassing. He has ordained a set of natural laws which govern all creation. He has 99 names and these names cover the vast range of qualities that define Him. He is described in the Quran as the Way, Truth, the Light.
Last edited:
God is described as being infinite and we are infinitesmal - in otherwords there is a difference on quantity and not quality - just like you can examine a drop of sea water to reveal the quality of the sea (saltiness) but you cannot examine a drop of sea water and expect to see all the variety that it houses (such as whales etc) - in the same way by introspective examination a person can see the general quality of god (provided they come to the platform of purity) and by a co-operative service attitude towards god (not acting as god's competitor, which is the underlying principle of material existence) a person can gradually perceive the name, form, further qualities and pastimes of god - of course you can find descriptions of the transcendental existence of god in scripture but these will remain theoretical until one comes to platform of practical application - in other words the epistemology for understanding god requires that come to a point of practical application, and until then god will remain a theoretical concept.
LiveInFaith
Registered Senior Member
baumgarten said:
After several efforts, I quit thinking about God.
Now It just left to be a target for sincere submission. conscience in heart.
It pushes me full effort on striving any target, but then in most cases, It makes me easy AFTER loosing things.
QS [13:11] For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession. Before and behind him: they guard him by command of Allah. Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls). But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect.
AFTER all odds, any results (specially if I loose a battle, or anything) will put my to say this :
Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajiun (All is His, and to Him all be back).
God, as I use it; it makes my life easy after all.
Sam, baum,
Way = destiny, purpose, meaning.
Truth = the identification of everything that is fact.
Light = wisdom and insight.
But these are all abstractions that sentient beings can and do discover and define for themselves. Existence is a fundamental axiom, but does it make sense to describe something that is comprised only of abstractions as actually existing?
While I can comprehend the metaphysical nature of this concept I have trouble seeing it as something that could be real, meaningful, or needed. But then isn’t this just another imaginative variation that I should add to my list of things not discovered?
If something is equated to everything and is everywhere then isn’t that something redundant since everything and everywhere have their own definition, another definition is superfluous?
If natural laws exist that govern all creation then what need is there of a god? We know these laws exist why then suggest they have not always existed? Why suggest a complexity to create fundamental simplicity? Does it not make more sense to see that everything is composed of simpler components and that if there was a beginning then only fundamental simplicity was needed? But then that is Deism, and as valid as a definiton for a god as any other.
Such a quantity would seem vastly inadequate in order to describe everything.
I guess the translation here would be –
Way = destiny, purpose, meaning.
Truth = the identification of everything that is fact.
Light = wisdom and insight.
But these are all abstractions that sentient beings can and do discover and define for themselves. Existence is a fundamental axiom, but does it make sense to describe something that is comprised only of abstractions as actually existing?
While I can comprehend the metaphysical nature of this concept I have trouble seeing it as something that could be real, meaningful, or needed. But then isn’t this just another imaginative variation that I should add to my list of things not discovered?
Cris said:
All these qualities together define God in Islam.
There is no such suggestion, either way. It is a part of jihad to discover what this knowledge means.
These are moral qualities.
Way- Rightness
Truth- Knowledge
Light- this quality is not defined, merely stated.
These are descriptions of God.
To each his own.
Saint said:
*************
M*W: No.
Sam,
The trouble with such definitions is that they suffer from super superlatives to the extent that they define themselves out of existence. To say that a god is everything and is everywhere is to say nothing at all. Do you understand the problem? What does it mean to you to say these things? Can you think for yourself beyond the Quran?
But that is not what you said – “He has ordained a set of natural laws which govern all creation.”. I took that to mean he created them, am I incorrect? If he didn’t create them and they have always existed then what does it mean in practical terms for him to “ordain” them? And if he didn’t create them then that would mean he didn’t have any say in the creation of the universe and I thought that was one of his main functions, is that not so?
But we don’t need gods for us to do that, do we?
Why are many names for a god equated to morality?
Hmm – ambiguous though. What is rightness?
Which is pretty much what I said.
Why is something stated if it is not explained. What does one do with an ambiguous and unexplained statement?
Understood, but do they make sense?
Cris said:
The idea of God in Islam is that He is a constant. That is all.
There are two sets of laws in Islam.
One is the set of natural laws. These are not just the laws of physics or chemisry (I think this is what you mean), but also the laws which maintain environmental considerations, non-wastage of natural resources and care for natural resources. These are the laws which are either conserved or should be conserved when performing jihad (struggle in the pursuit of knowledge).
The other are the set of moral laws, with emphasis on individualism and personal responsibility. The most important responsibility is to the self and this is fulfilled by the pursuit of knowledge accompanied by action to apply that knowledge.They also include the preservation of family and society, the care of orphans and destitutes and the institution of a social tax for the maintenance of society. These are the laws which should be conserved for the preservation of society.
But an occasional nudge in the right direction doesn't hurt, does it?
These are based on descriptions of God throughout the Quran and explain the proper moral codes attached to different circumstances. There are subtle differences in moral approaches and the names define those approaches.
Rightness is an embodiment of the greater good.
You said the identification of fact.
In Islam knowledge is a continuum, there is a need to question and examine, to involve those who know; doubt is a major component of jihad.
Maybe you can explain it? It's a parable
God is the light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His light is as if there were a niche and within it a lamp; the lamp is in a glass, the glass as if it were a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east, nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow forth(of itself), though no fire touched it. Light upon Light!
As much sense as energy and gravity, I guess.
Samcdkey:
Is it good because Allah loves it, or does Allah love it because it is good?
Is it good because Allah loves it, or does Allah love it because it is good?
That which is good. Anything that is "good" in the moral sense.
"Is charity good because Allah loves it, or does Allah love charity because it is good?"
"Is charity good because Allah loves it, or does Allah love charity because it is good?"
the 'gods" of the ancient world were merely a race supernatural and immortal beings with fantastic powers. the Christian God is quite different, since he is the craetor of all things and certain absolutes are ascribed to him: omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, etc.
Lawdog said:
actually monotheism didn't find its origins with christianity
LiveInFaith said:
then you have left yourself stranded on a beach with no desire to get home.
*shrug*
to each their own.
Samcdkeys:
And does Allah create these natural and moral laws?
And does Allah create these natural and moral laws?