What is an 'atheist'?

[phlogistician]

no offense but, the sciences are rather obvious.

In what way? Obvious, as in you have a complete understanding of them?

well phlog, what if real things exist that you can not see with your eye, even with the aid of a microscope, or a telescope, or an imaging system? hmmm?

We devise an experiment to test them, and do exactly that, and publish the results and method, and people test the method, and see if they get the same results. Simple. If they are real, and interact with the real world, we can do this, and we do.

i don't abandon that. and if your reasoning is subjective, then who is to say that your reasoning isn't flawed even when observing objective things?

That's the whole point of the scientific method! We understand our reasoning can be subjective, so do everything to remove human influence from steering the results. We gain objectivity by not ignoring things we don't like, and not weighing things we do more highly.

which is in fact what i am proposing in regards to atheism.

It's simply a lack of belief. If there were demonstrable proof, if would not be a matter of debate.

also, i have found that the results of interactions with god and a relationship with god, among many people, are very much the same.

Here's the flaw. A vague correlation is just that. Vague. You would need to match some specific criteria with a good degree of repetition to prove there was something behind it all, giving you the same results.

you said "spiritual". please do tell. *alluring dance*

I also said upon investigation I understood the causes. I only use the word spiritual to describe the feelings, (elation, inner peace, that kind of stuff). I do not for one moment think I have a spirit.

 

[Lori_7]

In what way? Obvious, as in you have a complete understanding of them?

no, as in they're not difficult to understand.

We devise an experiment to test them, and do exactly that, and publish the results and method, and people test the method, and see if they get the same results. Simple. If they are real, and interact with the real world, we can do this, and we do.

that's the same thing i've observed going on with people's interactions with god. only it seems the scientific minded won't test such a thing because they've already decided it's nonsense.

That's the whole point of the scientific method! We understand our reasoning can be subjective, so do everything to remove human influence from steering the results. We gain objectivity by not ignoring things we don't like, and not weighing things we do more highly.

well, with an interaction with god, it seems the evidence is actually tailored to the individual, it being a very personal experience, although achieving the same results. you must admit as well, that even scientific results can be interpreted and put to use in different ways, depending on the human who's doing the interpretation and who's using the results for what purpose.

It's simply a lack of belief. If there were demonstrable proof, if would not be a matter of debate.

there is. you just aren't going to be able to fit it in a test tube. do you realize that listening to you talk about science is very much like listening to a religious person? not in subject matter, but in perspective.

Here's the flaw. A vague correlation is just that. Vague. You would need to match some specific criteria with a good degree of repetition to prove there was something behind it all, giving you the same results.

it's not vague. with me, it was vague like a hammer to my head.

I also said upon investigation I understood the causes. I only use the word spiritual to describe the feelings, (elation, inner peace, that kind of stuff). I do not for one moment think I have a spirit.

well shit. i hate it when i do an alluring dance for nothing.

 

[(Q)]

what if real things exist that you can not see with your eye, even with the aid of a microscope, or a telescope, or an imaging system? hmmm?

emphasis mine

The key phrase in your question is, "What if."

Most certainly, if we don't know something exists, we can ask that question. One thing we always most certainly DON'T do is jump to conclusions when the answers don't immediately reveal themselves.

However, that's what you're doing, jumping to conclusions by answering those questions with "god did it."

 

[Lori_7]

emphasis mine

The key phrase in your question is, "What if."

Most certainly, if we don't know something exists, we can ask that question. One thing we always most certainly DON'T do is jump to conclusions when the answers don't immediately reveal themselves.

However, that's what you're doing, jumping to conclusions by answering those questions with "god did it."

well at least i'm recognizing it, instead of completely dismissing something extremely obvious just because i can't define it. :bugeye:

 

[(Q)]

well at least i'm recognizing it, instead of completely dismissing something extremely obvious just because i can't define it. :bugeye:

If it was "extremely obvious" we would all know about it.

 

[Lori_7]

If it was "extremely obvious" we would all know about it.

hammer to the head honey. you just haven't had it happen to you.

 

[(Q)]

you just haven't had it happen to you.

That is a fallacy, Lori, and a cop out.

 

[Lori_7]

That is a fallacy, Lori, and a cop out.

ok, you know...maybe you're right. i've said it before, that intentions matter and what you want from this life matters, and in regards to this, i think you get exactly what you want. but honestly Q, you've heard some of my story, and i know you think i'm mentally ill, but i wonder if YOU had gone through a similar thing what you would think about it. maybe you would think you were mentally ill. but i know i asked for it. i didn't know what i would get, but what i did get made sense to me.

you know how the bible talks about having an open heart? about humility? do you think you have those things in regards to god's potential existence?

 

[(Q)]

ok, you know...maybe you're right. i've said it before, that intentions matter and what you want from this life matters, and in regards to this, i think you get exactly what you want.

My intentions, much like most, are to find out about things. To make claims that an invisible entity is the explanation is childish, immature and lacks perspective on reality.

but honestly Q, you've heard some of my story, and i know you think i'm mentally ill

Those who claim to talk with invisible entities are usually diagnosed as such. Your case may be different or not. I simply don't know. But, if it was me, I would most certainly want to talk with a lot of specialists who are experts in this regard.

you know how the bible talks about having an open heart? about humility? do you think you have those things in regards to god's potential existence?

What I have or don't have in regards to the bible is irrelevant. The bible also condones the killing of your children if they talk back to you.

Gods existence has nothing to do with me. If he did exist, we would all know it.

 

[Lori_7]

My intentions, much like most, are to find out about things. To make claims that an invisible entity is the explanation is childish, immature and lacks perspective on reality.

don't you see that your intentions are against knowledge of god? i mean, you admit it right here. why would you want to know about something that would make you seem (in your eyes) childish, immature, and lacking a perspective on reality?

Those who claim to talk with invisible entities are usually diagnosed as such. Your case may be different or not. I simply don't know. But, if it was me, I would most certainly want to talk with a lot of specialists who are experts in this regard.

why?

What I have or don't have in regards to the bible is irrelevant. The bible also condones the killing of your children if they talk back to you.

Gods existence has nothing to do with me. If he did exist, we would all know it.

you're obviously jaded Q. you imply here, that if said god existed, you wouldn't even want to know him because he's evil or insane or whatever you would attribute the killing of a child to.

and obviously, if he did exist, we would not all know it, because you do not.

 

[(Q)]

don't you see that your intentions are against knowledge of god?

What knowledge? Where is this knowledge?

why?

Simple, because I wouldn't want to be living a delusion.

you're obviously jaded Q. you imply here, that if said god existed, you wouldn't even want to know him because he's evil or insane or whatever you would attribute the killing of a child to.

Any god that happened to exist is certainly not the one purported by any religion that promotes violence, ignorance and fear; ie. the Abrahamic religions.

and obviously, if he did exist, we would not all know it, because you do not.

That is a fallacy. The only way a god can exist is if we all know.

 

[Lori_7]

What knowledge? Where is this knowledge?

Q...you have already stated quite clearly that if such knowledge exists, you would not want to know of it. :bugeye:

Simple, because I wouldn't want to be living a delusion.

you would think you were insane and allow them to put you on drugs if you had an experience like mine.

Any god that happened to exist is certainly not the one purported by any religion that promotes violence, ignorance and fear; ie. the Abrahamic religions.

i have reiterated a thousand times that god is not interested in religion. god is independent of religion. i know you don't want to hear that.

That is a fallacy. The only way a god can exist is if we all know.

THAT is an OBVIOUS fallacy. i know, and you don't.

 

[(Q)]

Q...you have already stated quite clearly that if such knowledge exists, you would not want to know of it.

No, I didn't. Show me this knowledge.

you would think you were insane and allow them to put you on drugs if you had an experience like mine.

That's not the point, is it? The point is wanting to know if a mental disorder is causing something beyond my control.

i have reiterated a thousand times that god is not interested in religion. god is independent of religion. i know you don't want to hear that.

Believing in god IS religion, Lori.

i know, and you don't.

One of my earlier requests to you was to tell your god to come give me a visit. Haven't seen him yet.

Wouldn't it make your case rock solid if you simply asked him to visit me?

 

[shichimenshyo]

God is too busy to visit people like you Q. Duh...

 

[(Q)]

God is too busy to visit people like you Q. Duh...

But, not busy enough to make regular rounds to Lori's house? Duh...

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I think a number of Theists tend to mistakenly believe that some people are Atheist, when they are more likely to be Anarchist.

A Theist believes in a Deity or Deities,
An Atheist doesn't believe in a Deity let alone Deities,
An Anarchist doesn't care about the argument/statment either way, they just disagree with someone trying to make out there is someone above them hierarchically.

I've never seen proof anyone is above me.

An atheist does God's work. If there is a god then He has a special feeling for atheists. People who have truly demonstrated the use of free will by not succumbing to mind numbing faith. God if He exists is a total unknown as no evidence exists to prove His being, and atheists are the only ones who have taken His absence to mean He doesn't exist, a totally logical and correct conclusion. As I said earlier, an atheist is somebody God would be proud of.

Not if God is insane.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

what about destroys the world, burns flesh from bone, many to their final end in judgment......

such that in the OT, a few tribes a few hundred or even thousands of men

in the NT; all of mankind are affected and a huge portion are to be fried (fire from the sky)

babylon is leveled (the cities of corruption and most have a few million now a days)

so proportionally; the newT suggests a massive amount of death in relation to the weeeeeeeeeeee few who are even said to have died from the flood and all the wars of the OT.

don't believe the NT is about niceguys and sweethearts forgiving as the NEWT is talking about the JUDGMENT unleashed by the 4 horseman


it aint gonna be pretty

listen to iron maiden..................runnnnnnnnnnn tooo theeeeeeeeeee hillllllllllllllllllllls,

runn 444444444444444yorrrrrr li-iiiiiiiiiiiiife

Why is it you seem more logical when discussing others' irrational beliefs than when discussing yours?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

you know how the bible talks about having an open heart? about humility? do you think you have those things in regards to god's potential existence?

I have an open mind.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

don't you see that your intentions are against knowledge of god? i mean, you admit it right here. why would you want to know about something that would make you seem (in your eyes) childish, immature, and lacking a perspective on reality?

you're obviously jaded Q. you imply here, that if said god existed, you wouldn't even want to know him because he's evil or insane or whatever you would attribute the killing of a child to.

The God of The Holy Babble is obviously insane.

and obviously, if he did exist, we would not all know it, because you do not.

Obviously, if gods did not exist, we would not all know it, because you do not.

 

[Bishadi]

Why is it you seem more logical when discussing others' irrational beliefs than when discussing yours?

most everything i suggest is based on knowledge and cross references a weeeeeeee bit more than you may be aware of

just yet!