What have you learned.....

[leopold]

from you participation in the Religion Forum?

that there is no greater comedy duo than the "atheist, theist" team.

 

[Carcano]

Learning information is easy.

Enlightenment is difficult.

Because its not information.

 

[Varda]

Here, like everywhere else, the more I argue, the more I realise that arguing with someone only makes them feel stronger about their own point, while you feel stronger about your own point... therefore I don't think there is as much value in it for me as there is for the third parts who are reading the discussion.
And because of that I have been arguing less and reading more. I find it to be a better use of my time.

 

[Enmos]

So...
was there anything else.

You have posted 2981 times in the Religion Forum. I assume you have read at least as many posts that others have written, perhaps quite a few times more.

If this is what you learned, has it been worth your time?
If you have other goals or satisfactions, what are they? Have they been worth your time?

But even if your goals were not to learn, that was quite a bit of investment of mental focus, not to have learned more.....or?

I haven't learned a whole lot new in the religion forum. Theists aren't exactly forthcoming with some stuff I'm interested in. And the ones that are have various viewpoints most of which is pretty useless as information to me.

I did enjoy the "Hello, is there anybody in there...?" A call to pagans, pantheists, and assorted... thread, and the likes. And I did find out new stuff about it that I found interesting.
But in the end I was told I wasn't allowed in..

Most of the religion forum revolves around the concept "god", and I still don't understand why anyone would believe in such a thing.

At times I thought I understood why, but then that reason was denied. I don't know what to make of it to be honest.

 

[Simon Anders]

Learning information is easy.

Enlightenment is difficult.

Because its not information.

Have you come closer to enlightenment by participating in the Religion Forum? If not, were there any other benefits? What? How did these come about?
You've posted in the Religion Forum 535 times. Has it been worth it?

 

[Simon Anders]

Here, like everywhere else, the more I argue, the more I realise that arguing with someone only makes them feel stronger about their own point, while you feel stronger about your own point... therefore I don't think there is as much value in it for me as there is for the third parts who are reading the discussion.
And because of that I have been arguing less and reading more. I find it to be a better use of my time.

Interesting take.
What have you learned as the third party? Has this been useful for you? How?

 

[Simon Anders]

I haven't learned a whole lot new in the religion forum. Theists aren't exactly forthcoming with some stuff I'm interested in. And the ones that are have various viewpoints most of which is pretty useless as information to me.

I did enjoy the "Hello, is there anybody in there...?" A call to pagans, pantheists, and assorted... thread, and the likes. And I did find out new stuff about it that I found interesting.
But in the end I was told I wasn't allowed in..

Most of the religion forum revolves around the concept "god", and I still don't understand why anyone would believe in such a thing.

At times I thought I understood why, but then that reason was denied. I don't know what to make of it to be honest.

Has it been worth it?
You mention that people are not forthcoming with some stuff that you are interested in. Have you started any threads on these topics?

 

[Simon Anders]

I've tried to show others that tolerance is the best thing to have to those who cannot understand what a fact is compared to a belief.

It sounds like your participation has been with the goal of helping others. How did you go about showing others that tolerance is the best thing? If I read this right, you have been trying to teach atheists to be tolerant of theists. I did not deduce this from this post alone but included my memory of some of your posts.

How did you learn by posting here that people who believe in God are going to have the above-mentioned realization?


Because I can only hope they come to their senses one day and realize that they are only believing a myth developed by men and carried out by those who use religion to gain confidence with others to get rewards , whatever those might be, usually power and money.

It sounds like you did not really learn this, but rather continue to hope this.

 

[Enmos]

Has it been worth it?
You mention that people are not forthcoming with some stuff that you are interested in. Have you started any threads on these topics?

I'm not sure what you mean by "Has it been worth it ?".
If I thought it wasn't worth my time to come there I wouldn't have.
The time I spend here isn't worth much

I have started threads to get certain answers but never directly. I got answers, but never a satisfactory insight.

For instance. If I ask where theists get their notion of god, they deny they got it from their parents or the bible. They say they experienced god..
I mean, wtf ?

 

[Carcano]

Have you come closer to enlightenment by participating in the Religion Forum?

Not at all.

The path to enlightenment requires the physical discipline of an Olympic athlete.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: I learned there is no god.

 

[one_raven]

So it sounds like you have learned details/information about the religions, perhaps about their philosophies, practices, ceremonies and the like.

Certainly.
Why do you ask?

 

[Simon Anders]

*************
M*W: I learned there is no god.

You learned that there was no God while/by participating in the Religion Forum?

How did that come about?

 

[Simon Anders]

Not at all.

So what do you, then, get out of your participation in the Religion Forum?

 

[Simon Anders]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Has it been worth it ?".
If I thought it wasn't worth my time to come there I wouldn't have.
The time I spend here isn't worth much

OK, but it has been quite a bit of time. Sometimes I have realized that the time I was spending on something was not worth it, but there was something habitual that brought me back to it. Sometimes, for example, said activity was being used as a distraction. There are many other possibilities.

I have started threads to get certain answers but never directly. I got answers, but never a satisfactory insight.

For instance. If I ask where theists get their notion of god, they deny they got it from their parents or the bible. They say they experienced god..
I mean, wtf ?

Well, perhaps they had experiences that are different from ones you have had. Also there are probably not so many posters who simply are religious because of their parents who post repeatedly in the Philosophy section of a Science forum. I have seen examples, but it certainly does not seem to fit the regular theists here, perhaps with the exception of adstar.

 

[Simon Anders]

Certainly.
Why do you ask?

See now, you I want to give an forthright answer to, and then I hesitate to in front of everyone, but the former urge is winning out.

I asked from an impulse with a few sources, but one source was...

I do not confuse people with what they say they are, nor do I confuse their official beliefs with their beliefs. It struck me that I saw some odd patterns in the posting of some people, most of whom have not posted in this thread, yet, in any case. I can't remember the specifics, but let's say my sense was that it might not be comfortable for them to discuss their intentions and the value of what they were doing here, for themselves or for others.

So I wanted to put some light on this.

I actually have found the answers rather interesting. I had not really considered the idea of gaining information, as you have, and I think it's great you have done that here. I also appreciated SAM's overview of her experiences, since the kinds of conflicts that happen here, when looked at as they arise in particular nasty back and forth posting, is sort of missing the forest. Do we think a theist should run a rude gauntlet? As a rule.

Then, frankly, some of the other responses do not quite make sense to me, theoretically coming from the rationalists, who should know themselves better than non-rationalists since, according to theory, their thoughts are not swayed by their passions, fears and needs. In answering what they learned, it seems to me they did not learn it here.

So what is this phenomenon? What does it mean when someone cannot quite answer such a question? Does it mean they do not know themselves? Does it mean the question is pressing on an area where there's been a certain lack of introspection?

(I realize you may categorize yourself as a rationalist, but you seem a bit more complicated than that to me and your answers made sense to me, in any case)

 

[Baron Max]

I learned there is no god.

Do you have any proof or substantiating evidence of that ....or is it just your belief? There is a difference, ya' know.

Now me, that's different. I've learned that M*W is a bitter, fat, ugly old woman with a big nose that has a huge, black wart on the end of it. I believe that, and nothing you can say will change my belief.

Baron Max

 

[Medicine*Woman]

You learned that there was no God while/by participating in the Religion Forum?

How did that come about?

*************
M*W: Yes, that's how I resolved to be an atheist. I had always questioned christianity, even when I was a christian dyed in the wool. When I first came to sciforums, I still believed that Jesus existed, but there were people here who explained things that I had never faced on my own. It was clear. It made sense. I gave up my hold onto the myths I'd been taught (and gullible enough to believe). It was like a major burden of lies was finally lifted off my shoulders, and I could see what I'd always been looking for--the truth.

 

[Baron Max]

Yes, that's how I resolved to be an atheist. I had always questioned christianity, even when I was a christian dyed in the wool. When I first came to sciforums, I still believed that Jesus existed, but there were people here who explained things that I had never faced on my own. It was clear. It made sense. I gave up my hold onto the myths I'd been taught (and gullible enough to believe). It was like a major burden of lies was finally lifted off my shoulders, and I could see what I'd always been looking for--the truth.

So just a few words from a few people changed your beliefs? Just like that? And you didn't question their motives nor asked for any proof or evidence at all?

M*W, sounds just like "belief" to me.

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

I also appreciated SAM's overview of her experiences, since the kinds of conflicts that happen here, when looked at as they arise in particular nasty back and forth posting, is sort of missing the forest. Do we think a theist should run a rude gauntlet? As a rule.

To me the most significant drawback of this back and forth [and I have been excessively guilty of pandering to the impulse] is that it proves that unless we can treat opposing viewpoints with respect, there is very little chance of our being able to arrive at any truth. Looking at the big picture, it occurs to me that theists and atheists should be on the same "team" since it is only through criticism of one anothers POV that we can actually move forward in our eventual understanding of what the "truth" [such as it is] could be. Instead, we rehash the "I did not say this, you do not know what you say" "This is what it really means, no its not, yes it is" etc and get stuck at some position which is ego rather than truth. If everyone takes the same position [athiest, theist, agnostic], this is a standstill, not progress.