what do women get out of islam?

[Michael]

Mike, I apologize sincerely for not being able to respond promptly to your messages. I have witnessed a rather hectic schedule which seemingly knows no end. Would you be so gracious in outlining your main points you're trying to make? Please take in to consideration that we are in the "religion" section - not "politics". I'll see if I can reply tomorrow to you.

No hurry, Saturday I'm going to a wedding and Sunday I'm flying out for a week.

no rush

Michael

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Lion of Allah.

just make sure it isn't lying (lion) for allah

"Qa`Dark's Avatar" looks like a dog, isn't that an unclean animal for muslims?

 

[Fugu-dono]

^ It's actually a character from the video game Okami. Well at least he's got a pretty decent taste for game IMO.

 

[Michael]

Speaking of which, how was the game Okami? I was thinking if I ever get a life outside of work I might spend some of it on playing it

 

[Kadark]

WildBlueYonder: It isn't a dog, idiot. It's a wolf from a video game.

Michael: It depends on your taste for video games. I'd say Okami is sort of like the Zelda series. It should take you around 35 hours to finish for the regular gamer, so it's definitely worth the money. Right now, I'm near the end, and rate the game (personally) 9.5/10. The game is amazing to play, and the visuals are stunning.

BTW, are you outlining your points before or after you leave for a week, Michael? No rush. I'm just curious.

 

[DiamondHearts]

Yeah, Okami is a really great game. I played a demo of the game a while ago, I'm just waiting for it to get cheaper so I can buy it. I love those kind of games.

 

[GeoffP]

Is that true???

I regret to say that both the individual cases and my comments about DH's predilections are, in fact, true. He admitted as much to me a while back. This is one of the reasons he doesn't respond to my criticisms. I would say his opinion's a rarity, except that I know it isn't (Sam and Zak being exceptions, obviously). I got similar comments on another board, including one fellow who wrote that he'd kill anyone who insulted Mohammed.

 

[S.A.M.]

I regret to say that both the individual cases and my comments about DH's predilections are, in fact, true. He admitted as much to me a while back. This is one of the reasons he doesn't respond to my criticisms. I would say his opinion's a rarity, except that I know it isn't (Sam and Zak being exceptions, obviously). I got similar comments on another board, including one fellow who wrote that he'd kill anyone who insulted Mohammed.

You really should be careful with those meds.

 

[GeoffP]

...so you do support decapitating apostates? That's kind of a revelation.

 

[S.A.M.]

...so you do support decapitating apostates? That's kind of a revelation.

You seem to be revelling in those, these days.

 

[GeoffP]

I do, really. It's just so hard to keep a good madman down.

Some suggest ropes or bedclamps, but it's metaphors that hurt most.

 

[Michael]

Michael: It depends on your taste for video games. I'd say Okami is sort of like the Zelda series. It should take you around 35 hours to finish for the regular gamer, so it's definitely worth the money. Right now, I'm near the end, and rate the game (personally) 9.5/10. The game is amazing to play, and the visuals are stunning.

BTW, are you outlining your points before or after you leave for a week, Michael? No rush. I'm just curious.

Yeah, I've been working towards finishing FFXII for about 5 months now.

Unfortunately I'll probably have to try and summarize when I return....

Yeah, Okami is a really great game. I played a demo of the game a while ago, I'm just waiting for it to get cheaper so I can buy it. I love those kind of games.

Hey - common ground .. and with an Atheist no doubt

I regret to say that both the individual cases and my comments about DH's predilections are, in fact, true. He admitted as much to me a while back. This is one of the reasons he doesn't respond to my criticisms. I would say his opinion's a rarity, except that I know it isn't (Sam and Zak being exceptions, obviously). I got similar comments on another board, including one fellow who wrote that he'd kill anyone who insulted Mohammed.

It's one thing to write on a board and quite another to personally do something.

Also, there's something odd about the whole notion of "past" - don't you think? Sometimes we romanticize the past and sometimes we revile it, as if it was us. It's sort of real and not real huh? (I'm just saying this is it was in regard to something akin to the death sentence Mohammad dealt out in the Singing Girl post I attempted to start and which of course went no where. Even Sam once justified the slaughter of polytheist Arab - simply because they were polytheists?!? )

I usually take the position of "If this person was truely in touch with the creator(s) of the Universe(s) then we should expect said person to act morally. But that doesn't have to be the case - I like the tub-of-butter approach Perhaps the all of the Prophets are no more and no less moral than a tube-of-butter, God's very own sock-puppet. But that's not the way Apes like to think. We tend to like a strong moral alpha-male/Prophet, hey?


Michael

 

[WildBlueYonder]

WildBlueYonder: It isn't a dog, idiot. It's a wolf from a video game.

dog, wolf, whats the diff?

no self-respecting wolf would let some idiot human tag them with a dyed ring around their eye

its a dog, woof, woof

 

[Michael]

dog, wolf, whats the diff?

no self-respecting wolf would let some idiot human tag them with a dyed ring around their eye

its a dog, woof, woof

What do you expect chicks like dressing up. And we appreciate them doing so Would you prefer this incarnation of Amaterasu?

 

[Fugu-dono]

^ It seems love for blondes in modern Japan amongst the men have really evolved the appearance of Ameterasu in various media ne.

 

[GeoffP]

Also, there's something odd about the whole notion of "past" - don't you think? Sometimes we romanticize the past and sometimes we revile it, as if it was us. It's sort of real and not real huh?

Precisely. This idea of some idealised past, where islam reigned, and zakat was paid (on time) and minarets rose and all human bowed in the unbreakable unity of islam ("submission") to a great and unknowable being. It was the glory of unity and suffrance and faith and so, so much more than the petty atheists and agnostics and kuffar and the others could possibly know - they who are to be pitied, and reviled, and excluded, for their inability to join in the dance - unless, of course they were "Christians who believed (islam)" or "Jews who believed (islam)"; People of the Book who were really, at heart, muslim, and who rejected the divinity of Christ, or the 'corruption' of Judaism, or the nihilist call of atheism or un-faith or even - dare it be said aloud, in hushed, reverent eyebrows-raised voices - anti-faith. In other words: you know - people just like us? And isn't it gratifying when people want to be just like us? Of course. Everybody just loves that. One big happy enforced-observance family.

Yet, no one seems to have pointed out those loose threads by which the entire complete-life-system hangs. A system so good, so perfect, that deviants thereof must be put to death? And how deviant is deviant? When that magical, historical, joyful, watchful Caliphate was going in full swing, were not the absconders, the refusers, the - dare I say it? - "obstinates" still being put down and put to death and generally put in their place? Sharia is a fine system - so long as you're wearing the appropriate jacket. No "DhimmiTone" sweats in here, thankyou very much. Dhimmis are firmly shown the door - and, by the by, don't make so much noise in front of our restaurant. In fact, don't make any noise at all. In fact...don't be seen, either. Don't reflect light. Don't be noticed.

Don't breathe. It offends, you see.

(I'm just saying this is it was in regard to something akin to the death sentence Mohammad dealt out in the Singing Girl post I attempted to start and which of course went no where. Even Sam once justified the slaughter of polytheist Arab - simply because they were polytheists?!? )

Eh? That one's news. Sammiekins? What up with that? I'm not surprised it went nowhere. It gets denied, or it's a trick (usually of those naughty Judaists and their time machines, or maybe Robert Spencer, or Charles Johnson, or Daniel Pipes, for having the gall and temerity to point it out), or it's misinterpreted (oh, such a favourite that is), or it's unconfirmed (in stark, stark contrast to the rest of the theology, of course) or on and on. Or, just for the sake of novelty, how about: i) it was wrong. It was wrong and I disagree completely with Mohammed on this scale, and I would never do that, or ii) I don't believe he did do that, and I certainly never would anyway. The above two positions are ones I would take with respect to parts of Deuterotomy, and othersuch specific elements of the Pentateuch. Now, to be fair, ii) does occur in select individuals. Yet there is still a seeming acceptance of other violence done in the same vein, at different times; the polytheist, the poetess, the pariah-apostate, the "persecutor" (Salman Rushdie springs to mind), the pointer-outer of things wanted unsaid. If I were any kind of religious person (and I'm not so sure I'm not these days) I would simply say: balls to that. If this God or Allah fellow is so tough and buff and rough, He doesn't need me to defend idiocy done in His name. I damn violence in the name of religion - it is inexcusable. Words not enough? Then read your own bloody books and actually accept what they say, or what you say they say, or what you say they say you should say, or what you say they say you say you should say, or just say nothing and keep your hands in your pockets. If there is so much freedom in this religion or any other, then it should simply be copped to and let done, not defended in the name of your personal fear. I seem to recall that DH once opined something on the order of 'if everyone in Pakistan started to become Christian, he would fight it'. Yet why? Is not everyone free to decide their faith? 'No compulsion in religion?' Where did that go? But that's the way of attaching faith to your identity - you see it all over as people define themselves exclusively by what they believe about a being they have no evidence for. It's akin to crying out "I am a Green Leprechaunist!" and fighting someone else who thinks leprechauns are really blue, without wondering if there really are any leprechauns.

I usually take the position of "If this person was truely in touch with the creator(s) of the Universe(s) then we should expect said person to act morally. But that doesn't have to be the case - I like the tub-of-butter approach Perhaps the all of the Prophets are no more and no less moral than a tube-of-butter, God's very own sock-puppet. But that's not the way Apes like to think. We tend to like a strong moral alpha-male/Prophet, hey?

Michael - precisely. Let us not think! Let us submit our will to the way of Allah! Do not mind the dogs; the caravan rolls on.

And if it rolls out into the theological and moral wasteland; well, then that too is Allah's will, since after all He didn't tell us any different. There is the capacity to "retake" islam; but is there the will? When moderates are hunky-dory with human decapitation (and not as "collateral damage", I might add, unless one is particularly unadept with a scimitar), then there is a problem.

Look, I'm just going to post a short essay by Hugh Fitzgerald on the subject of the questionable core of injected religion into politics. It's a dangerous position, and when you propose a theology as a "complete lifestyle set now and for all ages", it's even more so. Without further ado, Hugh:

Fitzgerald: This is Islam. You can't get out.

During the Cold War Russian dissidents would say to visiting foreigners:

"Yes, the Soviet Union is indeed vast. You can go 3,000 miles up and down, and 6,000 miles across. But what happens when you come to the end of those 3,000 miles down? Or those 6,000 miles across? You still can't get out. You still are stuck."

That is Islam. You can't get out. You are not allowed the mental freedom to leave. If Islam did not promote the habit of mental submission, severe limits on artistic expression, hatred of, and war-making upon Infidels, the deliberate infliction of a state of permanent humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity on Infidels, if it did none of those awful things, but only -- only -- prevented those born into Islam from leaving Islam, that alone would entitle us to see it as a totalitarian and cruel belief-system, and to regard it with permanent wariness and worry.

Some have claimed that this prohibition on leaving has been set aside. Muslim convert Stephen Schwartz, for example, once wrote: “The Ottoman caliphate abolished death sentences for apostasy from Islam more than two centuries ago, but Western media still widely report that all Muslims believe the penalty for apostasy must be death."

This is, however, flatly untrue. In fact, even the so-called Tanzimat Reforms of 1839, which were designed to alleviate the condition of non-Muslims in the Ottoman Empire, were not put in to effect whenever and wherever local officials could get away with dragging their feet. After all, it was only the superior power of the Western world that made the Ottoman rulers even go through the charade of easing up on non-Muslims -- the same kind of charade that can be seen today all over.

Ultimately, there were some changes in the treatment of apostasy, but only limited ones, in a few places. And today it is not only in Saudi Arabia and Sudan and Iran where one can find such a punishment still on the books. Think of the outcry over Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan, and the Qambar case in the 1990s in (choose your adjectives: tiny, pro-Western, grateful-for-its-rescue-by-America) Kuwait.

Schwartz, being a "convert to Islam" (after a bout of Trotsky, and the Summer of Love, and so on), has decided to present himself to the world as an "expert on Islam." That’s a nice title if you can get it, and you can get it if you simply write the sign yourself, and then paste it on your forehead. He can now spout off about Islam and enjoy his self-assigned role as Slayer of Wahhabi Idols.

And don't overlook the money, radix malorum. For the role of "moderate Muslim" is now a virtual ticket to government and foundation grant money, the seed money, the feed money, the keeping-up-appearances money that no one would ever think of throwing the way of the true heroes, those ex-Muslims, the articulate defectors from Islam, such as Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina, who could make scholarly mincemeat of the high-profile converts any time they bothered to notice them. But they have more important things to do.

Ibrahim Hooper, Yvonne Ridley, Adam Gadahn, John Walker Lindh et al, the Western converts to Islam, represent various types of mental disarray. In contrast, the apostates from Islam (not to be confused with the Apostles of Cambridge) represent the sanest, most humorful, interesting people who were born into Islam and mentally fought their way -- or in the Western world, if their parents had exhibited less-than-fervent belief, possibly skirmished their way -- out of the Total Regulation of Life, the Complete Explanation of the Universe, the entire cramped existence. They had the courage to no longer accept the belief-system that was inflicted upon them and their ancestors, those Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, who at some point in that distant past were forced, or in order to no longer have to endure the unendurable, decided to convert to Islam, which has proven itself to be possibly the most powerful retrograde force, as Churchill once described it, in the history of humanity -– one that has stifled so much human potential and brought so much unnecessary woe.

Perhaps they are like those Cambridge Apostles after all.

 

[GeoffP]

dog, wolf, whats the diff?

no self-respecting wolf would let some idiot human tag them with a dyed ring around their eye

its a dog, woof, woof

Yeah; I've seen a lot of wolves and have yet to see one looking quite so...spotty.

 

[Kadark]

dog, wolf, whats the diff?

no self-respecting wolf would let some idiot human tag them with a dyed ring around their eye

its a dog, woof, woof

Set in an unspecified period of classical Japanese history, Ōkami combines several Japanese myths and legends to tell the story of how the land was saved from darkness by the Shinto sun goddess, named Amaterasu, who has taken the form of a white wolf. It features a distinct sumi-e-inspired cel-shaded visual style and the Celestial Brush, a gesture-system to perform miracles.

Now please stfu. Please.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

classical Japanese history,
Okami combines the Shinto sun goddess,
named Amaterasu,
the form of a white wolf.

Now please stfu. Please.

I find it hilarious that a so-called "lion" would have a wolf as a symbolic avatar
& that that wolf would be both a female
& painted like a dog,
quite a confused character, if you ask me

so, are you confused Qa'Dark?

& I never met a blonde japanese girl, unless she dyed her hair, but that tells me that deep down, that girl doesn't like herself, so a goddess that is blonde, must mean that the artist, if japanese, prefers white girls to home-grown japanese cuties? so confusing, no wonder "Qa'Dark is a confused dog

 

[tresbien]

How about westeners women who have suffered from the unbias conventions dictated by men.why women in America had the right to vote till 70s of last century.Did u read The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath and other novels.the protagonist always rebeles against patriachal society.Islam honors women and elevate her status.Christianity presents women as subordinate to men. Men according to the Bible are the owners of women, just like an animal is owned. Exodus 20:17 which states the famous tenth commandment, lumps a wife together with his servants, animals and house. A man could sell his daughter as a slave (Exodus 21:7-11)

In Quran Allah says
And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect (The Holy Quran 30:21

to understand more pls visit
http://www.answering-christianity.com/liberation.htm