What created "existence"?

Originally posted by Teg
fadingCaptain, static76, and overdoze: where were you when we had this discussion last time?
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Probably doing something productive with my life. :p

Now I've had 3 days of nothing to do and I'm going bonkers.

Also remember that observation plays a role in this. Observe that matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
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You mean, energy not matter. Remember annihilation, nuclear bombs, radioactive decay... Then again, matter synthesis from pure energy in accelerators...

The same goes for energy. Infinity is the only logical answer.
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Yeah, as static76 already noted, this applies to the known universe. But not necessarily to whatever generated it. If energy is arrangement of pieces on a chess board, something that creates the chessboard in the first place can define a new arrangement of pieces out of nowhere.

static's right, you cannot rule out an intelligent creator. Why anybody would want to postulate one in the first place, is the real question. Also of interest is how people arrive at such a nontrivial postulate in the first place. As a related curiosity, why this ultra-complex postulate seems the simplest to so many.
 
Easy:

because we have ability to question anything and everything.

If you want to know why we have that in turn, it's also easy:

it's part of our cognitive architecture and an inherent attribute of the learning process
 
Yes, of course, but why are we designed that way? What is the particular function of questioning existance?
 
Originally posted by static76
This question is for Atheists, religious people, and all those in between.

How did existence begin? Some people say that the so-called "Big Bang" created the universe, BUT what then created the "Big Bang"?:bugeye:
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It is clear to me that God created the heavens and the earth. If he did it in the form of a "Big Bang" then so be it. When I think of an "uncaused cause" I identify it as God.

-Mike
 
There is no function, evolutionarily speaking. Our species is an intelligent species. Intelligence in that sense means questioning how/why things work. That's what humans are, intelligent creatures that question. Along with our intelligence necessary for other things came the obvious questions of 'why are we here?' - 'who/what created us?' - 'how can there be infinite?' - 'how do I know I exist?' and such.
 
I'm sorry Q, I'm bad at reading long texts from the screen, can you sum it up for me?
I am however sure that it has an evolutionary function, everything has, so what do you think it is?
What could be the evolutionary result of questioning existance? It's like imagining something infinite, to try to reach the unreachable. Expanding the mind perhaps?


 
"I am however sure that it has an evolutionary function, everything has, so what do you think it is?"

What's the evolutionary function of mints?
None, it's just a byproduct of our intelligence.
 
Ok Tyler, that is your opinion.
In my opinion there is a function. To question existance is not a byproduct, it has been with humankind as long as it has existed. Intelligence is needed for this task, but intelligence is not a self serving purpose either. Why do we then have intelligence to question existence?
 
Erg.
- Why do we have the ability to question existence?
Tyler - It's a byproduct
- Okay then, why do we have the intelligence to question existence?

You just asked the exact same thing with a couple more words in the question.


"In my opinion there is a function"

Why? What proof do you have of this? Any evidence? And if you say everything in/on/of us serves a purpose you're completely wrong. So as far as I can see your opinion is completely groundless.

If you're asking what is the function of our intelligence - that is what our step in evolution is. That's like asking why does evolution happen.
 
Yes, that's also a good question, why DOES evolution happen?

And it was not the same question....

Tyler, it will not become any discussion if you just say that I'm wrong, it would also help if you stated why you think so. What proof do you have of your opinions?

We form opinions from our total life experience, so would you like me to write all that down to you as proof for my opinion? :eek:

Btw, I don't like to battle about who is right and who is wrong, because there will never be a winner of that. But what I do like is to have an intelligent, and perhaps pleasant, discussion about the issues.

I don't hold all the answers, that's why I'm asking. And if your replies are not enough to satisfy my curiosity, then I will continue to ask and wonder, regardless of your opinion. Perhaps someone else is interested to carry on a discussion too.

Me, I just enjoy the mindboggle. :)
I think thinking of the impossible makes it more possible. So questioning our existance should make it...what? More real? Or unreal?






 
Originally posted by fadingCaptain

The way I see it there are only 2 options:
a) A higher power (or God) has always existed and created the universe.
b) The universe has always existed.
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How do you know that (a) and (b) aren't the same thing?

;)
 
Originally posted by Bebelina
What is the particular function of questioning existance?
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Perhaps we are part of an experiment concerning a question the answer to which not even God knows...


:D
 
Could it be that when the big bang just where a ball of mass, it held such high speed (in some way) that time would actually stood still.... if so, there wouldn't exist any past or future at that moment... i know that it would mean that the mass would have been incredibly large (if not infinite) but hey look at black holes... they have incredibly large mass though some are as big as peas.
 
Originally posted by fadingCaptain
But at some point you have to assume that something has always existed.

But that's just an assumption too. What's to prevent existence coming from non-existence? Maybe outside this time-space continuum stuff just pops in and out of existence at random.

Or maybe everything that's in existence in here because it wants to be. Each individual aspect of existence has the will and the power to come into being on its own.

;)

Just thought I'd confuse the issue further.

~Raithere
 
Originally posted by Bebelina
but why are we designed that way?
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First of all, we are not designed. Just wanted to get that one out of the way...

As for questioning, it's again quite simple. If we were not able to question, we would not be able to learn. If we could not learn, we could not use our brains to adapt. If we did not have such an adaptive advantage, our species would have been long since extinct since on physical attributes alone we are quite inferior and ill-suited for survival.

Intelligence (and the big brain to go with it) is our species' special ability. It raises our fitness to somewhere above 0, and increased intelligence confers further adaptability, survivability and thus a selective advantage. Hence, evolution tends to select for higher intelligence (at least in lifeforms that possess any intelligence to begin with -- i.e. lifeforms with brains) -- when such an advantage happens to be conferred by chance mutations in the first place, that is.
 
Batm,
How do you know that (a) and (b) aren't the same thing?
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You mean the universe and God? I used the term God in the deist sense there. If one were to use the terms 'God' and 'worship' in the loosest form possible I would be a Pantheist. However, I have found telling people I am a Pantheist only confusing things so now I just say I am an Atheist.

Jez,
You a swervie? ;)
Could it be that when the big bang just where a ball of mass, it held such high speed (in some way) that time would actually stood still
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I have thought this is a possibility, but what would cause the big bang to happen? Was there ever any state of the universe before the initial state of the big bang?

Raithere,
But that's just an assumption too. What's to prevent existence coming from non-existence? Maybe outside this time-space continuum stuff just pops in and out of existence at random.
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I know we are dealing with abstract, heavy stuff...but once it goes to stuff 'outside this time-space continuum' popping in and out and multiverses and such...I just have to throw my hands up and say too much. Sure these are possiblities but until we see more evidence of such there are simpler possiblities.
 
Originally posted by fadingCaptain
Batm,

You mean the universe and God? I used the term God in the deist sense there. If one were to use the terms 'God' and 'worship' in the loosest form possible I would be a Pantheist. However, I have found telling people I am a Pantheist only confusing things so now I just say I am an Atheist.
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Ah, so that's what a Pantheist is.

From a TV show long ago (called "UFO"), I remember a point about infinite and how, if you were to look at a picture, you might see the craters on the surface of the moon, but, if you pulled back, you'd realize it was the leg of a pretty lady. :D

As they put it (paraphrasing), "when you kick the sand on the beach, remember that we might be part of a grain of sand on an even larger beach in some other Universe and there might be another person on a still smaller beach inside that grain of sand you kicked". When looked at this way, asking the question "what could encompass all this?" leads to only one answer -- God.
 
Originally posted by static76


Interesting answer, But then how has the universe always existed? How can something exist without a starting point?
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Hi there stat,

It's all a matter of scale.

If you only travel at slow speeds (less than 10,000km per hour, say) you would say that distance is constant, and time is constant. Only if you can up your speed to 180,000 per second, can you begin to see that time and distance are both relative.

At the small scales that we can effectively observe, we come to the conclusion that a "starting point" is necessary. If we were able to observe 15 billion years, and billions of light years distance, then we start to see that our earlier conclusion was faulty.

People from 400 years ago used to ask the same question of "starting points". They also used to ask another question - "What does the earth rest on?" (turtles? atlas?)

From their everyday observation, they saw that everything rests on something else. Even the lightest feather eventually comes to rest on something else. So naturally, they assumed that the earth would also rest on something! They could not visualise that the earth just "floats" there unsupported. (Like you cannot visualise the universe has no "starting point". :) )

You are suffering from a similar assumption right now - and the roots of your mistake are the same. You are trying to scale up your observations from a individual's scale to a cosmic one.


PS: excuse the terrible login in name. :( Haven't got around to getting a proper one yet.
 
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