What are UFOs?
- Thread starter farell
- Start date
Uhuh, and how much (if even possible) would they cost?
The efficiency is built in - I[sub]sp[/sub] is a factor of velocity and mass - how do you get heavier ions? How do you get them out faster?
If it can't be engineered then it's not "possible".
Engineering is doing something to a set price.
I would have thought that you (going for aerospace engineering) would have understood that.
In other words it was decided before hand that the cost would be acceptable for the likely results: it was an engineering decision.
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electrafixtion
Registered Senior Member
"A fact is a simple statement that everyone believes. It is innocent, unless found guilty. A hypothesis is a novel suggestion that no one wants to believe. It is guilty, until found effective."
Edward Teller
Incidentally, to conclude that ANYTHING can only be one way, for any length of time, even hypothetically, is not only down right stupid, it's absolutely dangerous.
Well Lets see Draqon:
Firstly, the Historic UFO's that people saw tended to be Kites and even Balloons. It's known that both were actually used by Generals as observation platforms, to view over battlefields, albeit the Chinese Kites weren't just for war.
The number of UFO sightings tends to also mirror our own technological advances in aviation. Of course there are Prototypes made by Civilians, Corporations and Military alike. Incidentally the patent laws are a bit funny, where if you talk about something or show something in depth prior to patenting it can actually fail it's application. So if you create something new that flies and test it, you have to keep it secret or you might lose your "invention". (Incidentally there are people with prototype hovercars that they keep in their garages etc and occasionally take out, I doubt they inform the local airspace when they do so the only record of their joyride trip is the onlookers that claim they saw a UFO)
Satellites can actually be seen from earth if they have light sources on board, I've even seen them myself although the ones I've seen are usually weather satellites. Since they are moving pretty fast at a low enough orbit, incidentally they can change their direction pretty quickly with the firing of a thruster.
There is then obviously normal aircraft, these can be Civilian, Commercial and of course Military. There are also Airballoons and Airships. airballoons can come in a variety of shapes, they don't necessarily have beacons on board or necessarily communicate with Air Traffic Controllers. Obviously they don't have much control over what direction they go, however if they hit the right winds at the right height they can appear to accelerate to hundreds of miles per hour in seconds. (Incidentally one of the many things that people sighting UFOs tend to identify in the crafts change in direction or velocity)
There is of course Weather balloons which are near enough obsolete now and RCV's (Radio Controlled Vehicles) along with the Amateur Rocket enthusiasts that often send rockets up into the sky.
In fact there are some documents in the Declassified section of the FBI library on a number of Balloons fitted with hazardous components that were launch during the 1940-50's. (For instance balloons with Circular saw blades attached) The FBI made it important to investigate UFO claims because of the potential loss of life should one of these "prank" balloons cause death or dismemberment.
Also during the end of the Second world war the Japanese launch a "balloon Bombing" method of attacking the US. Not many of the balloons made it, however there were a few causalities on US soil. (In fact historically it was the only mainland bombing that occurred on US soil during that period)
That covers pretty much the man made and it ranges from craft built to do a job, through entertainment, right down to full on pranks.
Then we have "natural phenomena" this can range anything from raining fish after a tornado, to ball lightening. These are not common occurrences, they only occur every so often.
Then we have the "Doesn't fit into any of these" Category, which for the most part nothing has ever reached that category. (Incidentally when something doesn't fit into any of them, it doesn't have to be alien in origin. It could be a natural phenomena not yet seen by human eyes, a prank not yet pulled, time travel, the universe taking a dump or any other number of possibilities.)
This is why I don't see little green men fixing their Z-rays to obliterate everyone or anything equally as daft.
Firstly, the Historic UFO's that people saw tended to be Kites and even Balloons. It's known that both were actually used by Generals as observation platforms, to view over battlefields, albeit the Chinese Kites weren't just for war.
The number of UFO sightings tends to also mirror our own technological advances in aviation. Of course there are Prototypes made by Civilians, Corporations and Military alike. Incidentally the patent laws are a bit funny, where if you talk about something or show something in depth prior to patenting it can actually fail it's application. So if you create something new that flies and test it, you have to keep it secret or you might lose your "invention". (Incidentally there are people with prototype hovercars that they keep in their garages etc and occasionally take out, I doubt they inform the local airspace when they do so the only record of their joyride trip is the onlookers that claim they saw a UFO)
Satellites can actually be seen from earth if they have light sources on board, I've even seen them myself although the ones I've seen are usually weather satellites. Since they are moving pretty fast at a low enough orbit, incidentally they can change their direction pretty quickly with the firing of a thruster.
There is then obviously normal aircraft, these can be Civilian, Commercial and of course Military. There are also Airballoons and Airships. airballoons can come in a variety of shapes, they don't necessarily have beacons on board or necessarily communicate with Air Traffic Controllers. Obviously they don't have much control over what direction they go, however if they hit the right winds at the right height they can appear to accelerate to hundreds of miles per hour in seconds. (Incidentally one of the many things that people sighting UFOs tend to identify in the crafts change in direction or velocity)
There is of course Weather balloons which are near enough obsolete now and RCV's (Radio Controlled Vehicles) along with the Amateur Rocket enthusiasts that often send rockets up into the sky.
In fact there are some documents in the Declassified section of the FBI library on a number of Balloons fitted with hazardous components that were launch during the 1940-50's. (For instance balloons with Circular saw blades attached) The FBI made it important to investigate UFO claims because of the potential loss of life should one of these "prank" balloons cause death or dismemberment.
Also during the end of the Second world war the Japanese launch a "balloon Bombing" method of attacking the US. Not many of the balloons made it, however there were a few causalities on US soil. (In fact historically it was the only mainland bombing that occurred on US soil during that period)
That covers pretty much the man made and it ranges from craft built to do a job, through entertainment, right down to full on pranks.
Then we have "natural phenomena" this can range anything from raining fish after a tornado, to ball lightening. These are not common occurrences, they only occur every so often.
Then we have the "Doesn't fit into any of these" Category, which for the most part nothing has ever reached that category. (Incidentally when something doesn't fit into any of them, it doesn't have to be alien in origin. It could be a natural phenomena not yet seen by human eyes, a prank not yet pulled, time travel, the universe taking a dump or any other number of possibilities.)
This is why I don't see little green men fixing their Z-rays to obliterate everyone or anything equally as daft.
If you understand that, then you also understand why those people you see as skeptic's are harsh on people. Not all of those skeptic's just poke fun and laugh at what they might see as idiots, some are just not articulate enough to point out that they should perhaps look at more than one angle.
Unfortunately belief doesn't actually make things real.
but actions from the belief does make things real.
For example, believing in God is useless you say? but acting upon the bible commandments' words of God is useful for sure.
For example, believing in UFO is useless you and Stryder say...but acting to make it reality by shaping an engineering concept of what UFO can be might provide useful after all.
Oh....Earth is flat so I not dare dream in a belief that it is a sphere, but when Earth was proven to be a sphere (well close to it) what than? were did the critics go?
Draqon making a flying craft and calling it a UFO doesn't make it one. after all you've identified that you made it, it's obviously not an object and it only flys when you make it. So "belief does not make it so".
Depending upon circumstances.
Only if the words are carefully selected before being acted upon...
Arrant nonsense: if that were the case then by your logic all aircraft are UFOs (or were conceptually).
BELIEVING in something does nothing - working on it is what brings thhings about.
You do not need a belief in UFOs to investigate exotic powerplants/ vehicle shapes or modes of flight - they will be done by the aerospace industry anyway.
And one some half-wit will shout "Look a real UFO!" and the designer will shrug and say "It was a logical progression... but it ain't a UFO"
Where did the critics go?
They were still around but either now educated or proven to be deluded.
well Mr. Atheist, as you wish. I made a UFO an IFO. I made a GOD my own concept of a belief. I found an unknown purpose of life to be known by creating new life from my seed.
Let the undefined be defined. Science does precisely just that.
Utter nonsense: all you need is the paycheck at the end of each month.
You don't need a belief in the way people believe in god: all you need is the (afvourable) cost/ benefit analysis and approval from the accounts department.
electrafixtion
Registered Senior Member
Stryder/Oli
This is the "thing" about skeptics that grates me. It's when they take a tone with "believers" that somehow they are "above" them in some pseudo authoritative fashion.
You see, whether a skeptic's belief is perhaps a more or less healthy belief, it's still a belief nonetheless. With respect for the mechanics of cognitive thought, a belief is a belief. Because science is for ever changing what is "accepted fact", beliefs are most assuredly the precursor to the absolute uncertainty of reality itself.
That's precisely what Teller was referring to in the quote I provided. It's about the scientific social mind set. Einstein had perhaps the greatest grasp of the philosophical application of relativity in all things. This knowledge in practice is completely missing with respect to the predictable empirical mind set.
Let me elucidate via Einstein's own words:
"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."
Albert Einstein
I provide this not as some lazy "appeal to authority" because the subjective nature of the application precludes authority. Rather, it is my hope that such a perspective can possibly serve as an exemplification of a healthy alternative to empirical predisposition.
Nothing is constant but change.
Someday UFOs will be understood. Until then we should retain an open and healthy even perspective for that which is hypothetically possible. The ardent skeptic's notion for that which is possible is most assuredly a moot point. Although no consideration is complete without a vast amount of healthy skepticism.
From this I can gather that in and of itself, skepticism is a crucial quality for discerning hypothesis. Whereas being a skeptic is a boundary waiting to predictably limit the ever expanding context of reality.
I believe this renders the skeptic a rebellious and foolish student, and the quality of skepticism the staff of a wise teacher.
DwayneD.L.Rabon
Registered Senior Member
This is an alien that was found not long ago.
Well this picture could only be of a earth life form, or a life form from our solar system, or a life form from the Alpha Centuari System.
The choices are limited.
DwayneD.L.Rabon