was mohammed a paedophile!!!!!
- Thread starter vincent
- Start date
- Status
nightwing darknight
Registered Member
first of all there is nothing called the book of hadith period
there are a numoreous number of books that each collect a different number of hadith
so you must mention which book that is youre quoting
second hadith are not all right meaning that some of them are really not said by mohhamed and didnt really happen it was in later periods than the first era of islam were added by people with bad intenions and the examples are very well known
there somithing for every hadith called the chain
it is like it was reported by **** who heared it from *** who hered it from *** so on until it reaches mohammed
now there are some hadith that have in the middle of this chain some peopel who are known to be lairs
and some other hadith that we dont have its complete chain so we dont know who really reported them
that why again you must mention in what hadith book this hadith is reported so we can make sure
third of all iran is not actually mus,im main stream thoughts they are a country not a relegion
and you have an example of one muslim country which belong to a minority of muslims "shi'a" what about the other 30 muslim countries!!!!
doctor no
the same notation
name of hadith book and hadith number so we can check i mean we wont take your word fo it!!!
oh doctor no so you know tons of muslims that marry nowadays a 9 years old girl
well how would you say that all sunnah muslim countries have laws agnaist that!!!!
there are a numoreous number of books that each collect a different number of hadith
so you must mention which book that is youre quoting
second hadith are not all right meaning that some of them are really not said by mohhamed and didnt really happen it was in later periods than the first era of islam were added by people with bad intenions and the examples are very well known
there somithing for every hadith called the chain
it is like it was reported by **** who heared it from *** who hered it from *** so on until it reaches mohammed
now there are some hadith that have in the middle of this chain some peopel who are known to be lairs
and some other hadith that we dont have its complete chain so we dont know who really reported them
that why again you must mention in what hadith book this hadith is reported so we can make sure
third of all iran is not actually mus,im main stream thoughts they are a country not a relegion
and you have an example of one muslim country which belong to a minority of muslims "shi'a" what about the other 30 muslim countries!!!!
doctor no
the same notation
name of hadith book and hadith number so we can check i mean we wont take your word fo it!!!
oh doctor no so you know tons of muslims that marry nowadays a 9 years old girl
well how would you say that all sunnah muslim countries have laws agnaist that!!!!
vincent,
why are you disdaining muslims, and why do you refer to the qu'uran as "the devils book".
if you want to be a christian that is fine but dont go saying that someone who worshidps another god is evil.
until any of you can prove the existence of any of your gods you dont need to worry about other people praising theirs
why are you disdaining muslims, and why do you refer to the qu'uran as "the devils book".
if you want to be a christian that is fine but dont go saying that someone who worshidps another god is evil.
until any of you can prove the existence of any of your gods you dont need to worry about other people praising theirs
i am not rubishing muslims there are some muslims i like
but the actions of the few thousand loonies out there are making islam a joke religion
maybe its about time the good muslims, started to hold a rally against terroism
funny i have never seen a muslim rally against terroism
yet i have seen many other faiths holding rallies against terroism and war
example the irish over 1 million irish held a rally against irish terroism after the omagh bombing
so i throw this question at you why do not muslims rally against terroism?
but the actions of the few thousand loonies out there are making islam a joke religion
maybe its about time the good muslims, started to hold a rally against terroism
funny i have never seen a muslim rally against terroism
yet i have seen many other faiths holding rallies against terroism and war
example the irish over 1 million irish held a rally against irish terroism after the omagh bombing
so i throw this question at you why do not muslims rally against terroism?
Bells
Staff member
I'd advise you to read this article, titled 'Child Marriage in Ancient India. It gives a historical account of the practice of child brides in India over a 4000 year period. Here is an extract:DoctorNO said:
Hmmmm
Shame you left our the rest of that quote:DoctorNo said:
And while you are right, it was acceptable for a 12 year old girl to be married off, that should not be stated with pride at how Romans were more civilised because of that 3 year difference. But prior to the age of consent being set at 12 years of age for girls, a child could marry once they reached puberty. So if the girl reached puberty when she was 8 or 9, as does happen occasionally, she could be made to marry by her parents.
I found this little article that might be useful in regards to this topic, which discusses the marriage practices of the ancient Isrealites and girls were of marriable age at the point of puberty or when they reached 13 years of age.DoctorNO said:
And here's another on the fact that girls became women at the age of puberty:
Doc, I would dearly suggest that you read The Young Marriage of Aishah which discusses the marriage rights and customs in ancient Arabia before and during the time of Mohammed. One of the articles I quoted above is also mentioned in there. It's a quick read and if I was to post quotes from it, my post would be too long (it's long enough as it is now), so it's easier for you to just read through it.
Who? You claim not to know any, and you claim that Muslim parents today are trying to prevent their children from marrying young. So who are they? Ah, here, I'll give you a hand:DoctorNo said:
Mmm hmmm, so why aren't you protesting about these actions as they happen today? We live in an enlightened world, where we supposedly know better than the ancients did. Yet, instead of trying to stamp out the problem in our own time, people such as you continue to harp on about the practices from the 6th century, all because you hate their religion. Maybe it's time you concentrated your hate on other things. But then again, I forgot this little statement from you:DoctorNo said:
DoctorNo said:
esmerelda the bells
For no man is an island.***
And in the midst of life the death bell tolls.
And you and I and the whole of humanity –
we all participate in the economy of death –
allowing it, precipitating it, suffering from it, experiencing it.
*
*
So the bell tolls for you and mw
you are at one in death.
Don't ask for
whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee bells
For no man is an island.***
And in the midst of life the death bell tolls.
And you and I and the whole of humanity –
we all participate in the economy of death –
allowing it, precipitating it, suffering from it, experiencing it.
*
*
So the bell tolls for you and mw
you are at one in death.
Don't ask for
whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee bells
Bells
Staff member
vincent28uk said:
What's your point Quasimodo?
I see you are a fan of John Donne.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions
However Vincent, if you're going to post sermons, at least have the decency to not plagiarise it and give the source of the sermon. But here, I shall provide it for you:
Hmm astounding, you didn't even bother changing the punctuation. Tsk Tsk.
Now as to that little sermon. You do realise that it applies to you don't you? I'd suggest that you look at your hatred of Islam and apply that sermon to yourself.
Last edited:
LOL! A common mistake when dealing with this issue is the immediate assumption that Aisha at age 9 had already entered puberty.
However there are strong evidences that such assumptions are wrong.
However there are strong evidences that such assumptions are wrong.
"Aisha was still playing with dolls at the time of the battle of Khaibar when she was at least 14 years old. Your great Islamic scholars all maintain that according to the strict interpretation of Islamic laws and the hadiths, and in particular in Muhammad's time, ONLY PRE-PUBESCENT GIRLS were permitted to play with or own dolls, thus proving that when Aisha owned/played with dolls she was pre-pubescent.
Aisha was still playing with dolls at the time of her nikah, the same day that Muhammad first had sex with her (according to Tabari). "
-by Hector
bells
hells bells
a small poem i wrote and dedicate to you
Hear the loud alarum bells ---
Brazen bells!
What tale of terror, now, their turbulency tells!
In the startled ear of night
How they scream out their affright!
Too much horrified to speak,
They can only shriek, shriek,
Out of tune,
In a clamorous appealing to the mercy of the fire,
In a mad expostulation with the deaf and frantic fire,
Leaping higher, higher, higher,
With a desperate desire,
And a resolute endeavor
Now --- now to sit or never,
By the side of the pale-faced moon.
Oh, the bells, bells, bells!
What a tale their terror tells
Of Despair!
How they clang, and clash, and roar!
What a horror they outpour
On the bosom of the palpitating air!
Yet the ear, it fully knows,
By the twanging,
And the clanging,
How the danger ebbs and flows ;
Yet, the ear distinctly tells,
In the jangling,
And the wrangling,
How the danger sinks and swells,
By the sinking or the swelling in the anger of the bells ---
Of the bells ---
Of the bells, bells, bells, bells,
Bells, bells, bells ---
In the clamor and the clangor of the bells!
Hear the tolling of the bells ---
Iron bells!
What a world of solemn thought their monody compels!
In the silence of the night,
How we shiver with affright
At the melancholy meaning of their tone!
For every sound that floats
From the rust within their throats
Is a groan.
And the people --- ah, the people ---
They that dwell up in the steeple,
All alone,
And who, tolling, tolling, tolling,
In that muffled monotone,
Feel a glory in so rolling
On the human heart a stone ---
They are neither man nor woman ---
They are neither brute nor human ---
They are Ghouls:
And their king it is who tolls;
And he rolls, rolls, rolls, rolls,
Rolls
A pæan from the bells!
And his merry bosom swells
With the pæan of the bells!
And he dances, and he yells;
Keeping time, time, time,
In a sort of Runic rhyme,
To the pæan of the bells ---
Of the bells :
Keeping time, time, time,
In a sort of Runic rhyme,
To the throbbing of the bells ---
Of the bells, bells, bells ---
To the sobbing of the bells ;
Keeping time, time, time,
As he knells, knells, knells,
In a happy Runic rhyme,
To the rolling of the bells ---
Of the bells, bells, bells ---
To the tolling of the bells,
Of the bells, bells, bells, bells ---
Bells, bells, bells ---
To the moaning and the groaning of the bells.
*
hells bells
a small poem i wrote and dedicate to you
Hear the loud alarum bells ---
Brazen bells!
What tale of terror, now, their turbulency tells!
In the startled ear of night
How they scream out their affright!
Too much horrified to speak,
They can only shriek, shriek,
Out of tune,
In a clamorous appealing to the mercy of the fire,
In a mad expostulation with the deaf and frantic fire,
Leaping higher, higher, higher,
With a desperate desire,
And a resolute endeavor
Now --- now to sit or never,
By the side of the pale-faced moon.
Oh, the bells, bells, bells!
What a tale their terror tells
Of Despair!
How they clang, and clash, and roar!
What a horror they outpour
On the bosom of the palpitating air!
Yet the ear, it fully knows,
By the twanging,
And the clanging,
How the danger ebbs and flows ;
Yet, the ear distinctly tells,
In the jangling,
And the wrangling,
How the danger sinks and swells,
By the sinking or the swelling in the anger of the bells ---
Of the bells ---
Of the bells, bells, bells, bells,
Bells, bells, bells ---
In the clamor and the clangor of the bells!
Hear the tolling of the bells ---
Iron bells!
What a world of solemn thought their monody compels!
In the silence of the night,
How we shiver with affright
At the melancholy meaning of their tone!
For every sound that floats
From the rust within their throats
Is a groan.
And the people --- ah, the people ---
They that dwell up in the steeple,
All alone,
And who, tolling, tolling, tolling,
In that muffled monotone,
Feel a glory in so rolling
On the human heart a stone ---
They are neither man nor woman ---
They are neither brute nor human ---
They are Ghouls:
And their king it is who tolls;
And he rolls, rolls, rolls, rolls,
Rolls
A pæan from the bells!
And his merry bosom swells
With the pæan of the bells!
And he dances, and he yells;
Keeping time, time, time,
In a sort of Runic rhyme,
To the pæan of the bells ---
Of the bells :
Keeping time, time, time,
In a sort of Runic rhyme,
To the throbbing of the bells ---
Of the bells, bells, bells ---
To the sobbing of the bells ;
Keeping time, time, time,
As he knells, knells, knells,
In a happy Runic rhyme,
To the rolling of the bells ---
Of the bells, bells, bells ---
To the tolling of the bells,
Of the bells, bells, bells, bells ---
Bells, bells, bells ---
To the moaning and the groaning of the bells.
*
Bells
Staff member
What? You're now assuming that her playing with dolls meant that she had not had her period? Grasping at straws now aren't you?DoctorNO said:
DoctorNo, in no way do I approve of any man marrying a child. However, I do acknowledge that it was a common cultural practice in history. You're applying modern morals to ancient history and saying that he was wrong to do something that is so morally reprehensible by today's society. Yet in the 6th century, it was allowed. Should the rules change to suit today's society? Yes. Hence why the laws have changed to adapt to the changing morals and values of society. Even in Iran today the age of female consent is 14, the same as Canada. One could look at any religious text and see some practices as being morally disgusting by today's standards. Ask any Muslim on the street today if they'd allow their 9 year old daughter to have sex with an old man if she'd reached puberty like Mohammed did with Aisha, and I'm betting the answer will be no. Why? Because of the way that our morals and values have evolved. And laws today reflect that change.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Vincent:
Are you now claiming to be Edgar Allan Poe?
Grow up you little troll.Look closely. The rest of that quote proves nothing. For all we know it could be referring to a Donald Trump scenario.Bells said:
You only quoted the Kama Sutra, a sex manual. Aside from the fact that such literatures are mostly confined to the upper caste, nothing in the article is suggesting that what is written here reflects the common practice in ancient India. On the other hand the article said these:Bells said:
(1) Religious dictates:
“The Vedic mantras, such as the Rigveda mentioned that a girl could be married only when she was fully developed both physically and mentally and that she was to be fully developed physically before leaving her father’s home”
(2)
“After the sixth century the marriageable age of girls went down lower and lower. The stoppage of participation of girls in Vedic education, Upanayana rituals and the insistence of purity in yajna (sacrificial) ritual contributed to the lowering of the marriage age for girls. ”
That is a biased Islamist web site.Bells said:
Thank you.Bells said:
Because the most effective way of dealing with a problem is by attacking the root of the problem – their idolized bogus prophet. Right?Bells said:
Bells said:
Bells, please remember this. For the common man who had lived in that culture, he had done no wrong.
HOWEVER,
For a Prophet who claimed to be a prime example FOR ALL TIME, then he falls under our standards as well.
So tell me, bells, as a prophet & example for all time, was he guilty of pedophilia or not?
james bond
Registered Member
bells sounds very deranged
i may have too pay her a visit dr no
i may have too pay her a visit dr no
Bells
Staff member
Had you read that article closely Doc, you'd see that it was referring to it having been written in 300AD, before Islam. And as to the Vedic mantras, it states that a girl could be married after she had reached puberty. Again, puberty plays a large role in the girls physical development at that time. If you read on, it states the importance of the girl having reached puberty prior to marriage. Therefore, if the girl reached puberty when she was, say 8 or 9 for example, then she would be of marriable age. And Doc, read up on your history. Islam didn't really begin to have any influence in India until the 7th century. Islam's birth in the 6th century would not have been felt in India at that point. So, the sinking of the marrying age in the 6th century could not really be connected now could it? Hmmm? Especially when one realises that the first Islamic kingdom was not established until the 12th century. Why do you persist in arguing this point Doc? That's how it was in history. It was not only Mohammed who did it. Accept it and move on.DoctorNO said:
In that case, shouldn't your attack be based against ancient arabian culture? After all, that is the root of the problem is it not? After all, it was that culture that allowed the marriage to take place. Had it been seen as being morally reprehensible back then, do you think it would have occured? If they thought of it back then as we do today, do you seriously think that he wouldn't have been stoned to death for marrying her? Think about it Doc.
Bells
Staff member
I believe I have already answered that question above. If I were looking at it through modern western eyes, yes he is guilty of paedophilia. But I shall say this again. When looking at history, cultural relativity is essential. It is imperative to look at the cultural development and practices of societies and social groups on their own terms. It is essential that we look at history and ancient cultures without trying to impose our own moral values. Nor should we try to measure different cultural variations in terms of our own cultural standard. This is what I've been trying to say to you all along in this and what you continually fail to see.DoctorNO said:
are you alone bells you sound like a very lonley person
i have wrote another poem for you my love its called
Alone
From childhood's hour I have not been
As others were; I have not seen
As others saw; I could not bring
My passions from a common spring.
From the same source I have not taken
My sorrow; I could not awaken
My heart to joy at the same tone;
And all I loved, I loved alone.
Then --- in my childhood, in the dawn
Of a most stormy life --- was drawn
From every depth of good and ill
The mystery which binds me still:
From the torrent, or the fountain,
From the red cliff of the mountain,
From the sun that round me rolled
In its autumn tint of gold,
From the lightning in the sky
As it passed me flying by,
From the thunder and the storm,
And the cloud that took the form
(When the rest of Heaven was blue)
Of a demon in my view.
the church bells are ringing bells feel free to join us bells in singing praises to the lord
we welcome all even the dark children
i have wrote another poem for you my love its called
Alone
From childhood's hour I have not been
As others were; I have not seen
As others saw; I could not bring
My passions from a common spring.
From the same source I have not taken
My sorrow; I could not awaken
My heart to joy at the same tone;
And all I loved, I loved alone.
Then --- in my childhood, in the dawn
Of a most stormy life --- was drawn
From every depth of good and ill
The mystery which binds me still:
From the torrent, or the fountain,
From the red cliff of the mountain,
From the sun that round me rolled
In its autumn tint of gold,
From the lightning in the sky
As it passed me flying by,
From the thunder and the storm,
And the cloud that took the form
(When the rest of Heaven was blue)
Of a demon in my view.
the church bells are ringing bells feel free to join us bells in singing praises to the lord
we welcome all even the dark children
- Status