Veil issue
- Thread starter thedevilsreject
- Start date
if he wants.
Sorry; I don't respond well to orders. Conflict issues; I'm sure you understand.
Read Sura 9. Not too difficult to locate, really. Q 9:5 would be a good start, I think - also Q 9: 29.
Geoff
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
It has nothing to do with bigotry and misunderstanding and you people know damn well that it isn't. You throw that in our faces because it's an easy way to avoid having a meaningful dialog about something that is very important and will not go away.
We do not tolerate and will never tolerate people walking among us with their faces hidden behind masks. It doesn't matter if they're Muslims, Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians or Eskimos. We will not tolerate this behavior from anyone. Seventy-five percent of human communication is non-verbal. Most of that is facial expression, but some of it is body language, which is also concealed by a hijab.
No one can communicate effectively with 75 percent of the bandwidth blocked. We're only willing to transact business of modest value and low risk over the telephone, and even less so by correspondence or e-mail, where we can't even hear the tone of voice and cadence. There is a good reason that all important business deals are conducted in person until the parties involved are very well acquainted and trust each other. It is the same reason that internet dating has so many tragic surprise endings. Internet commerce is a joke and will never be fully accepted until every computer has video so we can see each other's faces.
People who hide their faces are refusing to communicate effectively and they can never earn our trust. We will not tolerate a large number of people living among us who cannot be trusted.
It has nothing to do with religion. It's about communication. Wise up and stop hiding behind your religion. This may come as a shock to you but not everything is about religion.
It has everything to do with bigotry and misunderstanding .
you people?? who?
1) you know nothing of what my religion is/isn't.
2) I'm not hiding behind anything.
how many women wearing the burqah do you actually have to interact with on a daily basis?
why?
how many women wearing the burqah or hijab have you had to interact with personally?
really? you and I are communicating perfectly well.
so how much business of high value and high risk have you personally had to conduct with women wearing the burqah?
no they're not. the refusal lies on your part, and besides how do you know? again have you had to communicate with a woman wearing the burqah?
tell that to kiwi123, vinnie, geofp who relentlessly vilify islam on this forum, i'm just offering a counter to their tirade.
I'm not the one with the bee in my bonnet about religion.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
The Abrahamic religions are all the same.
- This earthly life doesn't matter. Nothing important happens until after you die.
- Men rule. Women are shit.
- Anyone who doesn't agree with my definition of religion is subhuman.
No we aren't. This is a pathetic substitute for a real conversation. It takes two days to make a point. And you and I are pretty good writers. SciForums is full of discussions that go nowhere because people can't understand each other.
Some damn fool woman actually tried to go to court wearing one of those stupid things. She could be smirking, she could be weeping, she could be giving every telltale sign of lying or of telling the truth, and no one in the court would be able to tell.
Every time the subway stops I look carefully at all the people who get on and size them up, to see if I think they might cause trouble. If someone looks risky I move to another car or just get off and wait for the next train. If some damn fool woman gets on my car hiding her face behind a mask like a robber, I am getting off and I know a lot of other people will too. If it happens twice the city will be overwhelmed with complaints and they will have to make the stupid things illegal on public transportation. As I've said, how the hell do we even know for sure that it's a woman under there? It could be anybody doing anything. It is a DISGUISE. People are not allowed to wear DISGUISES in public. They are a universal sign of being UNTRUSTWORTHY.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/10/061018-orchid-photos.html
do we fit in or are we an aberration?
do we fit in or are we an aberration?
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Don't criminals in western cultures use face masks to hide their identity when they commit crimes? And what do we, the western culture, think when we see someone masking their face, their identity? If a person walked into a bank wearing a face mask, what's the first reaction?
Baron Max
Baron Max
dEAR baron
thank you for your comments
This is a good point, Viels should be banned in banks and other such institutions...If the woman who wears a burka/viel wants to do her baning she should either do it over the internet or if she has to go into the bank to pay in her cheques she should aks someone else to do it for her..
However the policy would ahve to be set-out by each individual bank. Rather like in the Uk where Hooded tops are not alow to be worn in Blue Water Shopping centre.
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Zak
thank you for your comments
This is a good point, Viels should be banned in banks and other such institutions...If the woman who wears a burka/viel wants to do her baning she should either do it over the internet or if she has to go into the bank to pay in her cheques she should aks someone else to do it for her..
However the policy would ahve to be set-out by each individual bank. Rather like in the Uk where Hooded tops are not alow to be worn in Blue Water Shopping centre.
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Zak
Sure; and stink-breath.
1) again you know nothing of what my religion may or may not be. You assume my religion is abrahamic, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups
2)no relevance to this topic.
you have no idea on cognitive level how any muslim community behaves, you have no personal experience of how any muslim community behaves. Don't mistake the distorted information you absorb from an inherently biassed media as knowledge on an actual level.
Don't pontificate on a matter of which you have no knowledge of or a community of whom you know nothing about.
1)again this doesn't concern you or your life on an actual tangible level.
2)Where you in that court? Let the court decide on how to deal with that matter.
3) again as I have mentioned earlier women wearing the burqah equate to less than 5% of the muslim women in england, the stats would be even less in america, so why are you getting so riled over:
i)something which doesn't affect you tangibly
ii) is statistically insignificant anyway.
1) irrelevant to this topic
2) your opinions on people you meet in the street are purely subjective and equate to nothhing within the context of actuality.
1) just because a woman decides to wear a burqah doesn't make her a "damn fool" this is pure conjecture and subjective, biassed opinion. Your prejudice is palpable.
2)if: you're so clouded by emotion, you have a hard distinguishing a hypothetical situaiton with reality.
The qualifiers to your so-called argument are typical to Muslims here, who refuse to objectively see themselves in any other position other than what Islamic indoctrination would place them.
Yet, you are as innocent as a puppy sitting next to a pile of pooh.
And so, the usual refrain: you aren't muslim, you cannot understand, you may not comment. No response; merely a refrain to refrain.
Par for the course.
And since when is islam not an "Abrahamic" religion?
And if the court decides to order her to remove the burkha: what then? Will they, too, have no right to 'comment on islamic issues'? Will no one, in extremis? And where or when could the morality or desirability of such issues then be debated, if not here? You seem eager to stop such debate. Why?
This smacks of regression to individualism.
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And so, because Saudi Arabia doesn't allow crosses, Britain should retaliate and adopt those backward measures by not allowing veils?
Are you serious?
You really wish to stoop down low to the same level as Saudi Arabia?
What makes Western nations great is that they are nations of tolerance and acceptance. If you take away the tolerance and acceptance aspect of Western nations, well...
That's all nice and fun. But as I said before, if the WOMAN CHOOSES to wear it, then she should. If she is FORCED to against her will, that's an entirely different matter and then I'd agree with you.