Veil issue

people who go on about personal choice really fuck me off. so should the choice of an individual go against what the vast majority want. and you use personal choice like its an excuse..i mean cmon if everything was down to personal choice there would be problems wouldnt there i mean you would get rapists in court going it was my choice or maybe prostitutes whoring themselves in the middle of a high street as its there choice

As long as it doesn't violate a person's human rights and doesn't break any law, then it should be allowed.

Does a veil break any law? Does it threaten you personally? I don't think so. What makes veils threatening to people is that they automatically co-relate a veil with Islamic extremist terrorism, which is totally off-base.

That's like equating a mullet haircut with backward, unintelligent rural, hick/hillbilly culture. Is it right to do that? No. It's just our own insecurities and fears that are fanning the flames.
 
Do you suppost people that want to wear nothing? Or, say similar to men, women should be able to walk around topless :)

Fair enough?

Does wearing nothing go against the law? Yes. Does wearing a veil go against the law? No.

Fair enough?
 
Does wearing nothing go against the law? Yes. Does wearing a veil go against the law? No.

Fair enough?
yes thats' true.

Common law is based on common value - society determines what is acceptable. That's basically the way its always worked. I think it's fine to wear a veil, I used to tease a Muslim girl back when we were in Undergrad about spending time "alone" studying with a boy :) she always wore a head scarf - so what? I didn't even notice. As a matter of fact my grandma still wears one, and she's Catholic!

But I thought the question was about a full burka and integration? A full body covering probably inhibits integration. Westerners are not happy to see people covered from head to toe except for the eyes. So they will probably regard such a dressed person negatively and hence less integration into the community. I think some nudists would have a hard (no pun there :) time integrating into a non-nudest neighborhood? Don’t you think?
 

like equating a mullet haircut with backward, unintelligent rural, hick/hillbilly culture. Is it right to do that? No.


I agree - it is wrong to equate a mullet haircut with backward, unintelligent rural, hick/hillbilly culture




It's just our own insecurities and fears that are fanning the flames


Yeah right :rolleyes:

I suppose you think Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with it
 
Whats all the fuss about, a muslim teacher, teaching english with a veil on?

A pair of eyebrows & eyelashes can say so much right?

The fact that most humans dont understand what the other person is saying 100% of the time, & that most of us lip read to fill in the blanks has nothing to do with it?

The fact that they are children & they need to observe facial mannerisms of a teacher as they expess themselves in english also has nothing to do with it right?

Also if the teacher is reading a book to class, i am sure this muslim woman can say alot more with her eyebrows & eyelashes, than a standard human teacher could, who would only be able to put a face to the various characters in the book with her change of voices & different facial expressions.

I mean come on here, roger moor & spock from star trek have made millions from arching there eyebrows.

Only yeaterday i saw hundreds of adds in the english newspaper in bangkok, the bangkok post, they all said, eyebrows & eyelashes wanted to teach english to children with little attention span.The fact that most people find looking at a person with a burka on very boring, i am sure that wont effect children with a short attention span.
 
you know what Vince - I wonder what values kids in English schools are picking up on those so called "teachers" who refuse to remove the veils and integrate into western society.

No one has considered what the kids think.

If they wont remove the veils for the sake of the children then I would sack them, no problem.
 
you know what Vince - I wonder what values kids in English schools are picking up on those so called "teachers" who refuse to remove the veils and integrate into western society.

No one has considered what the kids think.

If they wont remove the veils for the sake of the children then I would sack them, no problem.


I think you know the answer to that stu, your a intelligent guy who can look at the big picture, unlike most here.

There learning isolation, there learning the ugly side of humanity as women are degraded to look like darth vader from star wars, there learning nothing from facial mannerisms as children need to do.

There learning to use there eyes more, because if they cant see her lips, the only chance of understanding her is to have your ears totally charged up to her voice.

There learning that it is normal for a woman to look like a burka leper in a a leper colony, when the reality is this is it belongs in backward muslim countries.

In the UK the veil will be banned in the next 1 or 3 years like it will be banned in all western countries as is the norm in some now, belgium & holland & many more.
 
If one wishes to remain wearing veils, why do you come to countries where such is not the cultural norm? If you have no intent to live in a country and become a citizen/subject of said country and become culturally united with said country, then why come to it at all? If you want to keep your culture, remain in your country.


If one wishes to remain wearing veils, why do you come to countries where such is not the cultural norm?
1)the burqah issue is irrlevant both i)qualitatively and ii)quantitatively
i) i don't need to go into this as it's irrelevant (within the context of islam)
ii) the women who choose to wear the burqah are statistically insignificant, less than 5% of the muslim women in Britain wear the burqah, yet attract a disproporionate amount of media attention, most of it negative further perpetuating negative stereotypes of islam/muslims.

2) many of these women were born in England so didn't come from abroad.

3) the fact that the burqah doesn't constitute what is "the cultural norm" doesn't equate to valid critisism of the burqah.

these women who choose to wear the burqah are in no way infringing on your beloved culture (whatever the hell that may be)
these woman are not undermining, subverting, or compromising your culture by choosing to wear a burqah.
These women are breaking no laws by wearing the burqah.

The real question is what's it to you, why does it bother you so much?

how many women have you physically come accross in you every day life who wear the burqah??

do you actually live in England.
 
people who go on about personal choice really fuck me off. so should the choice of an individual go against what the vast majority want. and you use personal choice like its an excuse..i mean cmon if everything was down to personal choice there would be problems wouldnt there i mean you would get rapists in court going it was my choice or maybe prostitutes whoring themselves in the middle of a high street as its there choice

so should the choice of an individual go against what the vast majority want
we're not talkikng about a legitimate want based on valid arguments, we're talking about opposition to something which is of no relevance based on ignorance.

and you use personal choice like its an excuse..i mean cmon if everything was down to personal choice there would be problems wouldnt there i mean you would get rapists in court going it was my choice
prime example of ignorance and ill thought out reasoning:
how does a woman's choice to wear the burqah compare to a someone who is on trial for a crime?

maybe prostitutes whoring themselves in the middle of a high street as its there choice
again, no valid comparison, no valid argument.

I repeat as in my previous post:

-These women who choose to wear the burqah are in no way infringing on your beloved culture (whatever the hell that may be)

-These woman are not undermining, subverting, or compromising your culture by choosing to wear a burqah.

-These women are breaking no laws by wearing the burqah.

The real question is what's it to you, why does it bother you so much?

how many women have you physically come accross in you every day life who wear the burqah?? do you really care if they choose to cover their faces?

I'm guessing no, just another excuse to vent anti muslim prejudices, just like every other idiot on this topic.
 
I live in England - and if you cant respect our laws - then sod off elsewhere - period!

the burqah doesn't break any law.

If you can't handle it, then the problem lies with you and not muslims/islam.

and again what's it to you? some woman wishing to wear a burqah has no tangible effect on your life.

Get over it.
 
the burqah doesn't break any law.

If you can't handle it, then the problem lies with you and not muslims/islam.

and again what's it to you? some woman wishing to wear a burqah has no tangible effect on your life.

Get over it.


Its only a matter of time old chap, England isn't a muslim land and its about time you understood that.

Soon most of Europe will have banned the burqah, and that is great news!

And about time too.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1829416,00050003.htm

Debate over Islamic veil in UK
 
Its only a matter of time old chap, England isn't a muslim land and its about time you understood that.

Soon most of Europe will have banned the burqah, and that is great news!

And about time too.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1829416,00050003.htm

Debate over Islamic veil in UK

Soon most of Europe will have banned the burqah
I very much doubt it.

England isn't a muslim land

1) no relevance to this topic.
2) same applied to arabia pre mohammed.
3) Its only a matter of time old chap.


Debate over Islamic veil in UK
there is no debate over islamic veil (which isnt even islamic) only irrational fear and paranoia fuelled by prejudice and bigotry caused by ignorance.

again:

If you can't handle it, then the problem lies with you and not muslims/islam.
and again what's it to you? some woman wishing to wear a burqah has no tangible effect on your life.

Get over it old chap
 
Last edited:
Its only a matter of time old chap, England isn't a muslim land and its about time you understood that.

Soon most of Europe will have banned the burqah, and that is great news!

And about time too.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1829416,00050003.htm

Debate over Islamic veil in UK

Hi Stu,

i hope all is well with you,

even-though i dont personally like the niqab/viel if the girl wants to wear it there is not much we can do apart from take away her freedom to do so by banning it...


however i think the there is no issue if it is banned in businesses if the directors chose this as part of the dress code. I myself would ban it from my company if i ever faced this issue as i dont think it is good for team equostics.

however most of the staff i employ are women over 40 and usually white, i do have one lady from persia and another from Thailand. Basically i need to read the expressions on their faces when i issue instructions to see whether they totally understand the task in front of them...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~

take care
zak
 
zak stu's objection to the veil is not based on any valid argument. He is simply using the veil as an excuse to vent his deep seeded prejudices and bigotry against islam.

The real issue isn't with the veil, but with his ignorance and lack of understanding and lack of willingness to understand islam.
 
Hi Outlandish
Thank you for your post

well we have to educate him then, and try to make him understand that Islam is a progressive religion etc..

Unfortunately the actions and words of some muslims are detremental to this espicially as the media picks up on these things in a flash!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

take care
zak
 
Hi Outlandish
Thank you for your post

well we have to educate him then, and try to make him understand that Islam is a progressive religion etc..

Unfortunately the actions and words of some muslims are detremental to this espicially as the media picks up on these things in a flash!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

take care
zak

well we have to educate him then, and try to make him understand that Islam is a progressive religion etc..

yes educate them, but you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

I have heard from a Muslim friend of mine that the prophet (sallahhu-alaihi-wa-aaliwasalam) was so desperately anxious about whether the ummah would accept the message he had given to them that he would be consumed with worry and a surah was revealed basically saying you were only to deliver the message to the people, whether they accept it or not is their problem.

Also there is I believe a surah inwhich it states that a veil has been placed over the hearts of many non believers and they will never believe hence trying to make them believe is futile, they just have to be left to their own ignorance.
 
Also there is I believe a surah inwhich it states that a veil has been placed over the hearts of many non believers and they will never believe hence trying to make them believe is futile, they just have to be left to their own ignorance.

Interestingly, there is also a sura (9) which states that non-believers are to be given only three choices: death, dhimmitude or conversion.

Geoff
 
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