Exactly. And thanks to the ignorance of a few we now have a mumps outbreak to deal with. Rubella next perhaps?
Vaccine related autism study?
- Thread starter Magical Realist
- Start date
That's offensive. I'm self-diagnosed and I've never ever been rude or annoying.
Magical Realist... all I can say to this... well, whatever perversion of logic that you are trying to employ... all I can say is stuff it.
The studies have been proven to be either flawed or, in the case of your apparent "ace in the hole", utterly falsified and deceitful. Your "evidence" is coming from websites that intentionally cherry-pick their data from statistical anomalies in order to try to and put up SOME sort of argument.
You want statistics? Here's a statistic for you MR -
100% of people who die have been in contact with muriatic acid, and 100% of people who are exposed to muriatic acid die.
The studies have been proven to be either flawed or, in the case of your apparent "ace in the hole", utterly falsified and deceitful. Your "evidence" is coming from websites that intentionally cherry-pick their data from statistical anomalies in order to try to and put up SOME sort of argument.
You want statistics? Here's a statistic for you MR -
100% of people who die have been in contact with muriatic acid, and 100% of people who are exposed to muriatic acid die.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Go ahead then and show me where these studies are flawed or deceitful. That's a pretty bold claim. Now support it per Sci Forum rules.
Good piece from the Daily Beast.
========================================
MIRROR MIRROR
02.09.15
What Psychologists Say About Anti-Vaxxers: They’re Raging Narcissists
“Who cares if a kid dies from measles, as long as I got to make my choice!”
With the measles outbreak bringing vaccination back into the spotlight, one question is rarely answered: Why do more people now choose not to vaccinate their children? In a word: Narcissism.
When the measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, American culture was very different. Children were not told they were special (at least not in a good way). The current mantras of “believe in yourself” and “just be yourself”—much less “I love me”—barely existed. College students were less likely to think they were superior to their peers than they are now. In short, individualism had yet to dominate American culture.
It does now, and individualism has crossed over into narcissism in many pockets of our culture. Narcissism is the perfect formula for choosing not to vaccinate your kids. No, not everyone who makes this choice is narcissistic, but the pervasive cultural narcissism in the U.S. makes these ideas possible and accepted even without individuals displaying the personality trait. Either way, it’s remarkable how many characteristics of narcissism map on to anti-vaccine ideas.
1. Narcissistic people believe they should be able to do what they want, no matter how it affects others. Parents sometimes state their belief that vaccines “are not the right choice for my child.” Because, apparently, their child is special, and should be able to opt out of something everyone else does. It’s the classic commons dilemma: We need everyone to do their part. If just a few people freeload, they can get the benefits without the risks. When too many people freeload, the system falls apart. That’s exactly what is happening right now with the measles outbreak.
2. Narcissistic people have less empathy. Those too young or medically vulnerable to be vaccinated are only protected if the vast majority of people get the vaccine, known as herd immunity. Because some parents exercise their “choice,” other people’s children can get sick or even die. But who cares, because I got to make a choice!
3. Narcissistic people have a hard time believing anyone knows better than they do. So unless they’ve done the vaccine testing themselves, why should they believe anyone who tells them vaccines are safe and effective? It doesn’t matter to them that study after study shows this and doctors and other authorities continuously say this.
Basically, the modern, narcissistic ideal is not to trust anyone except yourself. In previous decades, Americans were more trusting, both of each other and of authorities such as doctors and the government. Recently, however, trust in others and in institutions have reached all-time lows. Apparently, Americans only trust themselves; everyone else is an idiot.
4. Narcissistic people are overconfident. In stock-market simulations, they take too many risks because they don’t expect to lose money. They’re special, so bad things won’t happen to them. Until they do—like children getting the measles because they weren’t vaccinated. This is also at the root of the argument that we should “let nature take its course,” that works until it’s you or your kid who gets sick and dies. But narcissism lets people believe it will never be them.
The science on vaccination is extremely clear: Vaccines save lives and are exceedingly safe. Characterizing the discussion around vaccines as a “debate” is misleading. It’s not a debate any more than evolution vs. creationism is a “debate.” There is no debate. Let’s move on to figuring out why people endanger their kids—and, more infuriatingly, ours—by not vaccinating their children.
You could do your own research, Magical Realist. This has been debated all over the place. But I'm not sure I trust in your ability to discern what is and is not proper science.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Ok now you're just lying. All those papers are legit scientific studies. They all deal with the vaccine-related causes of autism. Either you're too ignorant to actually understand what they're saying, or you're being deliberately obtuse. These papers are here for anyone to peruse and examine themselves. And you're now also reported for insulting me as a pathetic human being. You really should see a therapist about your rage issues.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Wow. If obnoxious ad homs were valid forms of argumentation, that would definitely win the debate. Unfortunately they're not and only reflect the fact that you have nothing left to back up your position. Pity really. I was SO hoping someone here could prove all this wrong.
Bells
Staff member
You clearly have not read a single link we provided. I provided one that went through in detail that showed how those studies are flawed. I also provided you with another link that showed how and why another one of your study was flawed and false and had to also be retracted. I even provided you with a study, where the MMR vaccine was removed from circulation, which meant that children were not receiving it. And the autism rate still continued to climb, among children who never received the MMR vaccine. This study went on for years. And their findings clearly showed that MMR vaccine had absolutely nothing to do with autism. Because children not being vaccinated did not result in less autism diagnosis. Instead, autism continued to rise at the same rate as prior to when the MMR vaccine had been administered.
I will show you just how successful the anti-vaccine movement you have been spouting has been.
By 2000, the CDC declared measles eradicated in the United States. By 2011, the Pan American Health Organization announced that measles had been eliminated from Latin America.
"Talk about stunning," Schaffner says. "We have no measles upriver on the Amazon. None in Chile, Nicaragua, Mexico. The only country that now has measles transmission in the Western Hemisphere is the U.S.
"Talk about stunning," Schaffner says. "We have no measles upriver on the Amazon. None in Chile, Nicaragua, Mexico. The only country that now has measles transmission in the Western Hemisphere is the U.S.
Well done. What an achievement.
To put it into some perspective with an analogy.. While everyone is driving cars, flying planes and going into space infectious disease control wise, the US has gone backwards to the point where the wheel has just been invented. No, really, well done MR.
How is this an ad-hom? It's an article talking about the narcissistic aspects of anti-vaxxers, which seems fairly on-target. Did it hit close to home for some reason?
My position is backed up by modern medical science, so I'm not too worried.
Bells
Staff member
You have provided so many misleading studies, and tried to pass off retracted studies as proof of your claims.. studies that were retracted when they were found to be falsified and the results were wrong.. Then you spammed us with studies about the influenza vaccine from scientific sites, which had nothing to do with autism or MMR and mixed those with the hack job so called studies from anti-vaccination sites.
You ignore scientific fact and instead, rely on bogus science and made up studies by anti-vaxxers. Frankly, you are all a menace to society and the most vulnerable in society at that.
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
More vicious smart ass personal attacks on antivaxxers and scientists showing vaccine/autism links. It only damages your own credibility when you have to be so snivelingly condescending and prickish.
Here's one you listed. Please identify any relationship to vaccine-related causes of autism or any relationship to measles.
============
The Safety Profile of Varicella Vaccine: A 10-Year Review
Abstract
Varivax (varicella virus vaccine live [Oka/Merck]; Merck), a live attenuated varicella vaccine, is indicated for vaccination against varicella in appropriate individuals ⩾12 months of age. The 10-year safety profile for Varivax is described using data submitted to Merck from routine global postmarketing surveillance, combined with information from a Varicella Zoster Virus Identification Program, which uses polymerase chain reaction (PCR) analysis to identify the presence and strain of VZV in selected specimens. There were 16,683 reports worldwide voluntarily submitted to Merck, for an overall reporting rate of 3.4 reports/10,000 doses of vaccine distributed. PCR analysis of vesicular rashes that occurred within the first 2 weeks after vaccination was more likely to identify wild-type varicella-zoster virus (VZV), whereas the presence of Oka VZV was generally associated with vesicular rashes that occurred 15–42 days after vaccination. Reports of breakthrough varicella that occurred >42 days after vaccination were associated with wild-type VZV. Among 697 herpes zoster reports, PCR analysis identified Oka VZV in 57 reports and wild-type VZV in 38 reports. There were no primary neurologic adverse events associated with Oka VZV. Secondary transmission of Oka VZV from vaccine recipients with postvaccination vesicular rashes was identified in 3 susceptible household contacts. Disseminated Oka VZV was identified in 6 immunocompromised patients and 1 patient with Down syndrome. This review has shown that the vaccine is generally safe and well tolerated.
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
LOL! OMG, we're on the top of the list of Western Hemisphere measles-infected countries. However shall I get thru my day now. Those damn antivaxxers screwing up our rating up like that! lol!
- In the Region of the Americas (North, Central and South America and the Caribbean), measles has been eliminated; however, outbreaks continue to occur when the virus is imported into this region from other countries.
- The United States is currently reporting a sudden increase in the number of cases of measles in California, which started in December 2014. Related cases have since been reported in other states and in Mexico.
- Brazil: In 2014, health authorities reported a significant increase in the number of cases as compared to the same time period in 2013.
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
You sure think YOU can. But heck, it's not your job to tell us, is it?
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I thought vaccinated kids had nothing to worry about? And babies who are too young to vaccinate are protected by their mother's own antibodies. So what are you worried about?
Once again, the chances of dying from measles is 1 in a few 1000. If that's a risk parents are willing to take, so what? People die from falls more often.
Not all kids can handle vaccinations because they are immunocompromised. They rely on herd immunity to keep them from deadly infections.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Wow..I guess you found one. Now look at this:
https://vaccinexchange.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/tomljenovic_shaw-cmc-published2.pdf
Conclusion:
"Aluminum in various forms can be toxic to the nervous system. The widespread presence in the human environment may underlie a number of CNS disorders. The continued use of aluminum adjuvants in various vaccines for children as well as the general public may be of significant concern. In particular, aluminum presented in this form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. The widely accepted notion of aluminum adjuvant safety does not appear to be firmly established in the scientific literature and, as such, this absence may have lead to an erroneous conclusions regarding the significance of these compounds in the etiologies of many common neurological disorders. Furthermore, the continued use of aluminum-containing placebos in vaccine clinical trials may have lead to an underestimation of the true rate of adverse outcomes associated with aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines. In our opinion, a comprehensive evaluation of the overall impact of aluminum on human health is overdue. Such an evaluation should include studies designed to determine the short and long-term impacts of dietary aluminum as well as the potential impacts in different age groups of exposure to adjuvant aluminum alone and in combination with other potentially toxic vaccine constituents (e.g., formaldehyde, formalin, mercury, phenoxyethanol, phenol, sodium borate, polysorbate 80, glutaraldehyde). For the latter, until vaccine safety can be comprehensively demonstrated by controlled independent longterm studies that examine the impact on the nervous system in detail, many of those already vaccinated as well as those currently receiving injections may be at risk for health complications that exceed the potential benefits that vaccine prophylaxis may provide. The issue of aluminum adjuvanted vaccine safety is especially pertinent in light of the legislation which might mandate vaccination regimes for civilian populations (e.g., the Biodefense and Pandemic Vaccine and Drug Development Act of 2005). Whether the risk of protection from a dreaded disease outweighs the risk of toxicity from its presumed prophylactic agent is a question that demands far more rigorous scrutiny than has been provided to date."
Already done - have you watched the video yet that shows how Wakefield doctored his PCR results?