Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
You're not making sense now..Maybe your childhood vaccine is finally kicking in. lol!
Vaccine related autism study?
- Thread starter Magical Realist
- Start date
You're not making sense now..Maybe your childhood vaccine is finally kicking in. lol!
Bells
Staff member
You really need to stop getting your sources from the anti-vaccination brigade and their websites. You are literally quote mining - much like evolution denial people quote mine and link to spurious studies.
For example, this so called study by Singh.. I read up on Singh. He even has a wiki page..
In 1998, Singh, while affiliated with the University of Michigan, coauthored a paper in Clinical Immunology and Immunopathology reporting the presence of antibodies to myelin basic protein in autistic children and arguing that a virally triggered autoimmune response might cause autism.[6] In 2002, Singh et al. published a paper in the Journal of Biomedical Science in which it was reported that 75 of 125 autistic children had an abnormal measles antibody, whereas none of the non-autistic children did. In addition, the study concluded that "...an inappropriate antibody response to MMR, specifically the measles component thereof, might be related to pathogenesis of autism."[7] The results were reported on by the Daily Mail,[8] as well as the Daily Telegraph, which noted that the study did not prove that the MMR vaccine caused autism; rather, "autism may be responsible for the unusual response to the MMR antibodies."[9]
Singh's findings on autism have been criticized by other scientists as flawed, unreproducible, or dubious. Mary Ramsay of the Health Protection Agency wrote that the evidence for the "specific" MMR-type antibody Singh claims to have detected was "not credible."[10]Paul Offit wrote in Autism's False Prophets that "...a closer look at Singh's science revealed two critical flaws: children with autism didn't have evidence of nerve cell damage, and, according to measles experts, the test that Singh had used to detect measles antibodies didn't actually detect them."[11] A 2006 review of literature on vaccines and autism found that Singh's results "have been called into question due to issues of cross-contamination, as well as the use of unsubstantiated and un-validated biochemical techniques", citing a report by the World Health Organization,[12] and a number of other studies have failed to find a difference in immune response to the measles virus between autistic and neurotypical children.[13][14][15][16] Peter Lachmann, the president of theAcademy of Medical Sciences, United Kingdom, stated: "Singh's work in these papers is not particularly reproducible or good... There are many diseases which show raised antibodies to measles, for example chronic active hepatitis or multiple sclerosis, yet there is nothing to associate these with MMR. There is no persuasive evidence that autism is caused by autoimmunity."[17]
Singh's findings on autism have been criticized by other scientists as flawed, unreproducible, or dubious. Mary Ramsay of the Health Protection Agency wrote that the evidence for the "specific" MMR-type antibody Singh claims to have detected was "not credible."[10]Paul Offit wrote in Autism's False Prophets that "...a closer look at Singh's science revealed two critical flaws: children with autism didn't have evidence of nerve cell damage, and, according to measles experts, the test that Singh had used to detect measles antibodies didn't actually detect them."[11] A 2006 review of literature on vaccines and autism found that Singh's results "have been called into question due to issues of cross-contamination, as well as the use of unsubstantiated and un-validated biochemical techniques", citing a report by the World Health Organization,[12] and a number of other studies have failed to find a difference in immune response to the measles virus between autistic and neurotypical children.[13][14][15][16] Peter Lachmann, the president of theAcademy of Medical Sciences, United Kingdom, stated: "Singh's work in these papers is not particularly reproducible or good... There are many diseases which show raised antibodies to measles, for example chronic active hepatitis or multiple sclerosis, yet there is nothing to associate these with MMR. There is no persuasive evidence that autism is caused by autoimmunity."[17]
Hilarious does not even cover it.
Want me to go on?
Due to word constraints, I've snipped the bulk of the abstract and kept the links. Your next study:
Influenza vaccine during pregnancy has what to do with MMR and autism?
From the CDC, the influenza vaccine is classified as a category C. You may not be aware of this, but many medications are not safe during pregnancy and while breastfeeding. So to gauge the safety of medications, they are categorised. Category C is this:
Pregnancy Category C indicates that animal reproduction studies have shown an adverse effect on the fetus and there are no adequate and well-controlled studies in humans, but potential benefits may warrant use of the drug in pregnant women despite potential risks. Additional information about pregnancy categories is available athttp://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/DevelopmentResources/Labeling/ucm093307.htm
For example, Prednisone is a category C drug in the US. But say a woman suffers a severe asthma attack. They would more than likely treat her with a cortisoid like prednisone, simply because lack of oxygen and the risk to her health and thus, the foetus' health are greater than if they do not give her the medication.
So listing the influenza vaccine as a category C drug makes sense. While it could affect the developing foetus, if the pregnant mother will gain more benefit having the vaccination than not having it, then she will have to have it.
End Part 1 - stupid word limit.
Bells
Staff member
Part 2
So you are including this because of...?
This one was my favourite.
I felt like I was reading a sci-fi novel.
Deisher argues that vaccines created from harvesting stem cells from aborted babies (insert evil music here) and that these are literally invading the DNA of the children they are supposedly being injected into and altering their DNA to cause autism..
Oh my..
Was that a serious inclusion?
Because Theresa Deisher's organisation, AVM Biotechnology, one based on the religious pro-life dogma that often appear in religious sites, is going into the vaccine making business..
Chortle!
Ermm.. The study does not actually demonstrate that MMR causes autism.Magical Realist said:
So you are including this because of...?
Magical Realist said:
This one was my favourite.
I felt like I was reading a sci-fi novel.
Deisher argues that vaccines created from harvesting stem cells from aborted babies (insert evil music here) and that these are literally invading the DNA of the children they are supposedly being injected into and altering their DNA to cause autism..
Oh my..
Was that a serious inclusion?
Because Theresa Deisher's organisation, AVM Biotechnology, one based on the religious pro-life dogma that often appear in religious sites, is going into the vaccine making business..
AVM stands for, by the way, Ave Maria, although the surgeon in me can’t help but think “arteriovenous malformation” when I see those initials.
In any case, there’s nothing like having a competing set of vaccine products to motivate one to find reasons to tear down the existing vaccines by any means necessary. Moreover, lest anyone doubt that the motivations for this are purely religious rather than scientific, get a load of what Dr. Deisher has said about “tainted knowledge“:
Where’s the Hitler Zombie when you need him?
One thing that’s very clear, it’s that Dr. Deisher is working from a religious viewpoint rather than a scientific one. Indeed, check out this interview with her in Celebrate Life! magazine. In it, she describes falling away from Catholicism in college because of an unnamed “traumatic experience” and then having another traumatic experience while in graduate school that brought her back to the faith. She clearly has the zeal of the “reconverted,” so to speak and lambastes embryonic stem cell research while touting adult stem cell research and lamenting the evil of using those human cell lines to make vaccines.
In any case, there’s nothing like having a competing set of vaccine products to motivate one to find reasons to tear down the existing vaccines by any means necessary. Moreover, lest anyone doubt that the motivations for this are purely religious rather than scientific, get a load of what Dr. Deisher has said about “tainted knowledge“:
Deisher hopes to avoid even treatments developed with tainted knowledge — knowledge derived from research using aborted fetal material, such as embryonic stem cells.
“It would be like using the research results on hypothermia from Nazi Germany that involved murdering people,” she said.
“It would be like using the research results on hypothermia from Nazi Germany that involved murdering people,” she said.
One thing that’s very clear, it’s that Dr. Deisher is working from a religious viewpoint rather than a scientific one. Indeed, check out this interview with her in Celebrate Life! magazine. In it, she describes falling away from Catholicism in college because of an unnamed “traumatic experience” and then having another traumatic experience while in graduate school that brought her back to the faith. She clearly has the zeal of the “reconverted,” so to speak and lambastes embryonic stem cell research while touting adult stem cell research and lamenting the evil of using those human cell lines to make vaccines.
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That's true.
I did an Aspergers test, and I got an unusually low score.
Maybe I have the opposite.
I think I've got Sregrepsa.
What part do you not understand? You are fully on board with vaccinating children. You admitted that. Did you forget, or was that a lie?
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I'm citing real medical papers from a medical paper website. It doesn't matter where I found the links for these. The papers are real studies with scientifically performed results. If you can't see that then that's your problem.
You bet he does. Just about every scientist who has shown a link between vaccines and autism has websites devoted to smearing them in some way or complaining about their results. The provaccine campaign is powerful and well-funded, much more so than the antivaccine movement is.
In 1998, Singh, while affiliated with the University of Michigan, coauthored a paper in Clinical Immunology and Immunopathology reporting the presence of antibodies to myelin basic protein in autistic children and arguing that a virally triggered autoimmune response might cause autism.[6] In 2002, Singh et al. published a paper in the Journal of Biomedical Science in which it was reported that 75 of 125 autistic children had an abnormal measles antibody, whereas none of the non-autistic children did. In addition, the study concluded that "...an inappropriate antibody response to MMR, specifically the measles component thereof, might be related to pathogenesis of autism."[7] The results were reported on by the Daily Mail,[8] as well as the Daily Telegraph, which noted that the study did not prove that the MMR vaccine caused autism; rather, "autism may be responsible for the unusual response to the MMR antibodies."[9]
Singh's findings on autism have been criticized by other scientists as flawed, unreproducible, or dubious. Mary Ramsay of the Health Protection Agency wrote that the evidence for the "specific" MMR-type antibody Singh claims to have detected was "not credible."[10]Paul Offit wrote in Autism's False Prophets that "...a closer look at Singh's science revealed two critical flaws: children with autism didn't have evidence of nerve cell damage, and, according to measles experts, the test that Singh had used to detect measles antibodies didn't actually detect them."[11] A 2006 review of literature on vaccines and autism found that Singh's results "have been called into question due to issues of cross-contamination, as well as the use of unsubstantiated and un-validated biochemical techniques", citing a report by the World Health Organization,[12] and a number of other studies have failed to find a difference in immune response to the measles virus between autistic and neurotypical children.[13][14][15][16] Peter Lachmann, the president of theAcademy of Medical Sciences, United Kingdom, stated: "Singh's work in these papers is not particularly reproducible or good... There are many diseases which show raised antibodies to measles, for example chronic active hepatitis or multiple sclerosis, yet there is nothing to associate these with MMR. There is no persuasive evidence that autism is caused by autoimmunity."[17]
Singh's findings on autism have been criticized by other scientists as flawed, unreproducible, or dubious. Mary Ramsay of the Health Protection Agency wrote that the evidence for the "specific" MMR-type antibody Singh claims to have detected was "not credible."[10]Paul Offit wrote in Autism's False Prophets that "...a closer look at Singh's science revealed two critical flaws: children with autism didn't have evidence of nerve cell damage, and, according to measles experts, the test that Singh had used to detect measles antibodies didn't actually detect them."[11] A 2006 review of literature on vaccines and autism found that Singh's results "have been called into question due to issues of cross-contamination, as well as the use of unsubstantiated and un-validated biochemical techniques", citing a report by the World Health Organization,[12] and a number of other studies have failed to find a difference in immune response to the measles virus between autistic and neurotypical children.[13][14][15][16] Peter Lachmann, the president of theAcademy of Medical Sciences, United Kingdom, stated: "Singh's work in these papers is not particularly reproducible or good... There are many diseases which show raised antibodies to measles, for example chronic active hepatitis or multiple sclerosis, yet there is nothing to associate these with MMR. There is no persuasive evidence that autism is caused by autoimmunity."[17]
Wow..so how many of those who don't agree with Singh get fat paychecks from the vaccine manufacturers?
The argument is that vaccines can cause autism among other debilitating conditions. In 1998 the U.S. Public Health Dept and the National Pediatric Association recommended the removal of mercury containing Thimerasol from vaccines. Now why did they do that? Because studies showed a link between high mercury levels from vaccines and neurological damage. While many vaccines switched over to aluminum adjuvants instead of Thimerasol, the influenza vaccine still used Thimerasol. Hence the reports on influenza vaccines causing neurological disorders.
So you are admitting possible adverse affects from a vaccine? Now we're getting somewhere.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I changed my mind after looking into the evidence.
What is your problem? Every medicine can potentially have adverse side effects. The beneficial effects of vaccines so tremondously out weigh any possible adverse effects that only a complete idiot would advocate not getting vaccines.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Spoken like a mindless corporate tool. The studies speak for themselves..
That's a lie: you even posted a quote that shows its a lie.
Magical Realist, I would highly recommend you choose your next post carefully, as further insults WILL result in additional moderation being taken.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
You seem to have problems remembering the point of this thread. If you still think it was to be limited to MMR, then check the OP. I specifically said "VACCINES" not MMR. The study stands.
Oh my. Big anti-abortion conspiracy ploy is all ya got here? So what? The study stands on its own merits, and research supports the effect injected human DNA on the brain.
"So it should come as no surprise that the FDA has known for decades about the dangers of insertional mutagenesis by using the human fetal cell lines and yet, they chose to ignore it. Instead of conducting safety studies they regulated the amount of human DNA that could be present in a vaccine to no greater than 10ng. (www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/05/slides/5-4188S1_4draft.ppt)
Unfortunately, Dr. Deisher’s team discovered that the fetal DNA levels ranged anywhere from 142ng – 2000ng per dose, way beyond the so-called “safe” level.
“There are a large number of publications about the presence of HERV (human endogenous retrovirus – the only re-activatable endogenous retrovirus) and its association with childhood lymphoma,” noted Dr Deisher. “The MMR II and chickenpox vaccines and indeed all vaccines that were propagated or manufactured using the fetal cell line WI-38 are contaminated with this retrovirus. And both parents and physicians have a right to know this!”
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Once again using the mod hat to win a debate. Is that what its come to? I have been called an idiot, stupid, a pathetic human being, and a troll for presenting this evidence. If you are so intent on enforcing the insult rules, start there.
So, your argument is that Thimerosal is dangerous... okay...
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Seems to me like Thimerosal is being eliminated...
So, what's your next attempt?
If you are being insulted, then hit the report button and be done with it. Respond in kind, and you get moderated as well. Seems simple enough... though your moderation history also rather speaks for itself.
The fact that you are trying to cry wolf and claim that we are "using the mod hat to win debates" is rather telling - you are quite aware that this theory (and your supposed "evidence") is so much bunk, and are looking for any excuse to explain away your failure to sway anybody with it.
Let's hope you never look into the "evidence" for all the deadly diseases you can get by washing your hands after you use the bathroom. (I hear people get autism from handwashing.)
I am the opposite of a mindless corporate tool, my young fellow. I agree the studies speak for themselves and the OVERWHELMING inescapable conclusion is that vaccines are a wonderful thing. Vaccines are an absolutely wonderful thing to keep children healthy and alive. Not vaccinating your children is ignorant, irresponsible and frankly insane.
If it weren't for the fact that "herd immunity" is so important to how vaccinations work, especially for those children who are too young and those with compromised immune systems... I would say to simply let the anti-vaxxers alone and allow Natural Selection to run its course...
Unfortunately, as we have seen, it's innocent bystanders that end up sick and dead because of the ignorance of the few.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I already said it was. Don't you keep up with the thread? But it's still being used in flu vaccines. Hence the paper showing the effect of flu vaccine thimerasol on fetus brains.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I've cited over 40 studies showing links between vaccines and autism. TWICE in fact. Now I'm forced to post the studies directly because people here refuse to consider them. So instead of floating along with the majority like you always do, why don't actually look at all these studies and decide for yourself?
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Who are all these innocent bystanders who are dying of measles? This is a typical scare tactic used to manipulate the public into demonizing the unvaccinated.
Total number of deaths due to measles in the U.S. from 2004-2015? ZERO!
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