The stat is true, but doesn't tell the whole story. Most of those deaths were from measles-related pneumonia, which we can treat better today. But even at that, measles still kills 1-2 people per 1000 cases (from the wiki), so at the rates of infections that occurred prior to the vaccine came out, we'd still be seeing thousands of deaths per year today if there were no vaccine.
Vaccine related autism study?
- Thread starter Magical Realist
- Start date
Bells
Staff member
The CDC provides a clearer picture. At a guess and looking at your graph MR, it's from an anti-vaccination site..
Here is what the CDC shows incidents of Measles in the US:
Again, gee, what a surprise. This is conclusive with non-vaccination and the current outbreak is further proof of that.
Why am I not surprised.
As Russ notes, the deaths from measles are from complications that measles causes, such as pneumonia.
Here is what the CDC shows incidents of Measles in the US:
Before 1963, approximately 500,000 cases and 500 deaths were reported annually, with epidemic cycles every 2–3 years. However, the actual number of cases was estimated at 3–4 million annually. More than 50% of persons had measles by age 6, and more than 90% had measles by age 15. The highest incidence was among 5–9-year-olds, who generally accounted for more than 50% of reported cases.
Following licensure of vaccine in 1963, the incidence of measles decreased by more than 98%, and 2–3-year epidemic cycles no longer occurred. Because of this success, a 1978 Measles Elimination Program set a goal to eliminate indigenous measles by October 1, 1982 (26,871 cases were reported in 1978). The 1982 elimination goal was not met, but in 1983, only 1,497 cases were reported (0.6 cases per 100,000 population), the lowest annual total ever reported up to that time.
During 1980–1988, a median of 57% of reported cases were among school-aged persons (5–19 years of age), and a median of 29% were among children younger than 5 years of age. A median of 8% of cases were among infants younger than 1 year of age.
From 1985 through 1988, 42% of cases occurred in persons who were vaccinated on or after their first birthday. During these years, 68% of cases in school-aged children (5–19 years) occurred among those who had been appropriately vaccinated. The occurrence of measles among previously vaccinated children (i.e., vaccine failure) led to the recommend at ion for a second dose in this age group.
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Measles Since 1993
Reported cases of measles declined rapidly after the 1989–1991 resurgence. This decline was due primarily to intensive efforts to vaccinate preschool-aged children. Measles vaccination levels among 2-year-old children increased from 70% in 1990 to 91% in 1997.
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In 2008 a total of 140 measles cases was reported, the largest annual total since 1996. Eighty nine percent of these cases were imported from or associated with importations from other countries, particularly countries in Europe where several outbreaks are ongoing. Persons younger than 20 years of age accounted for 76% of the cases; 91% were in persons who were unvaccinated (most because of personal or religious beliefs) or of unknown vaccination status. The increase in the number of cases of measles in 2008 was not a result of a greater number of imported measles cases. It was the result of more measles transmission after the virus was imported. The importation-associated cases occurred largely among school-aged children who were eligible for vaccination but whose parents chose not to have them vaccinated. Many of these children were home-schooled and not subject to school entry vaccination requirements.
Following licensure of vaccine in 1963, the incidence of measles decreased by more than 98%, and 2–3-year epidemic cycles no longer occurred. Because of this success, a 1978 Measles Elimination Program set a goal to eliminate indigenous measles by October 1, 1982 (26,871 cases were reported in 1978). The 1982 elimination goal was not met, but in 1983, only 1,497 cases were reported (0.6 cases per 100,000 population), the lowest annual total ever reported up to that time.
During 1980–1988, a median of 57% of reported cases were among school-aged persons (5–19 years of age), and a median of 29% were among children younger than 5 years of age. A median of 8% of cases were among infants younger than 1 year of age.
From 1985 through 1988, 42% of cases occurred in persons who were vaccinated on or after their first birthday. During these years, 68% of cases in school-aged children (5–19 years) occurred among those who had been appropriately vaccinated. The occurrence of measles among previously vaccinated children (i.e., vaccine failure) led to the recommend at ion for a second dose in this age group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Measles Since 1993
Reported cases of measles declined rapidly after the 1989–1991 resurgence. This decline was due primarily to intensive efforts to vaccinate preschool-aged children. Measles vaccination levels among 2-year-old children increased from 70% in 1990 to 91% in 1997.
-------------------------------------------------------------
In 2008 a total of 140 measles cases was reported, the largest annual total since 1996. Eighty nine percent of these cases were imported from or associated with importations from other countries, particularly countries in Europe where several outbreaks are ongoing. Persons younger than 20 years of age accounted for 76% of the cases; 91% were in persons who were unvaccinated (most because of personal or religious beliefs) or of unknown vaccination status. The increase in the number of cases of measles in 2008 was not a result of a greater number of imported measles cases. It was the result of more measles transmission after the virus was imported. The importation-associated cases occurred largely among school-aged children who were eligible for vaccination but whose parents chose not to have them vaccinated. Many of these children were home-schooled and not subject to school entry vaccination requirements.
Again, gee, what a surprise. This is conclusive with non-vaccination and the current outbreak is further proof of that.
A site called "Vaccination Liberation"..
Why am I not surprised.
As Russ notes, the deaths from measles are from complications that measles causes, such as pneumonia.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
If you want me to keep responding to you, you need to grow up and quit flaming me.
As for blaming antivaxxers for the deaths from measles in Africa, I've already called you people on this. Its dishonest and frankly ridiculous. You want to blame antivaxxers for measles being deadly in third world countries where there is poor santitation, poor nutrition, and bad water, which is what is likely causing all the measles deaths to begin with. We know these are a big factors in measles deaths due to the rate of death in the first half of the 20th century. As these improved, measles deaths fell dramatically and prior to the introduction of the vaccine. So give that some thought would you please?
In fact the US 'Officially' eliminated measles at one point in the last ten years.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
The CDC provides a clearer picture. At a guess and looking at your graph MR, it's from an anti-vaccination site..
Here is what the CDC shows incidents of Measles in the US:
Before 1963, approximately 500,000 cases and 500 deaths were reported annually, with epidemic cycles every 2–3 years. However, the actual number of cases was estimated at 3–4 million annually. More than 50% of persons had measles by age 6, and more than 90% had measles by age 15. The highest incidence was among 5–9-year-olds, who generally accounted for more than 50% of reported cases.
Following licensure of vaccine in 1963, the incidence of measles decreased by more than 98%, and 2–3-year epidemic cycles no longer occurred. Because of this success, a 1978 Measles Elimination Program set a goal to eliminate indigenous measles by October 1, 1982 (26,871 cases were reported in 1978). The 1982 elimination goal was not met, but in 1983, only 1,497 cases were reported (0.6 cases per 100,000 population), the lowest annual total ever reported up to that time.
During 1980–1988, a median of 57% of reported cases were among school-aged persons (5–19 years of age), and a median of 29% were among children younger than 5 years of age. A median of 8% of cases were among infants younger than 1 year of age.
From 1985 through 1988, 42% of cases occurred in persons who were vaccinated on or after their first birthday. During these years, 68% of cases in school-aged children (5–19 years) occurred among those who had been appropriately vaccinated. The occurrence of measles among previously vaccinated children (i.e., vaccine failure) led to the recommend at ion for a second dose in this age group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Measles Since 1993
Reported cases of measles declined rapidly after the 1989–1991 resurgence. This decline was due primarily to intensive efforts to vaccinate preschool-aged children. Measles vaccination levels among 2-year-old children increased from 70% in 1990 to 91% in 1997.
-------------------------------------------------------------
In 2008 a total of 140 measles cases was reported, the largest annual total since 1996. Eighty nine percent of these cases were imported from or associated with importations from other countries, particularly countries in Europe where several outbreaks are ongoing. Persons younger than 20 years of age accounted for 76% of the cases; 91% were in persons who were unvaccinated (most because of personal or religious beliefs) or of unknown vaccination status. The increase in the number of cases of measles in 2008 was not a result of a greater number of imported measles cases. It was the result of more measles transmission after the virus was imported. The importation-associated cases occurred largely among school-aged children who were eligible for vaccination but whose parents chose not to have them vaccinated. Many of these children were home-schooled and not subject to school entry vaccination requirements.
Again, gee, what a surprise. This is conclusive with non-vaccination and the current outbreak is further proof of that.
A site called "Vaccination Liberation"..
Why am I not surprised.
As Russ notes, the deaths from measles are from complications that measles causes, such as pneumonia.
Nice switch there. I was talking actual measles deaths, and now you go to measles cases. Big difference there.
Funny joke given that you are the one who switched-it to be about deaths instead of cases in the first place!
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
So you are admitting measles itself doesn't kill, it is the pneumonia that kills. Well that's a bacterial infection of the lungs isn't it? It's not really connected to the measles virus itself.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
...
Bells
Staff member
Are you for real?
Measles kills and its complications that arise from having measles kills.
Jesus christ dude, you should be ashamed of yourself. This is as pathetic of a display I have seen on this site in my time here.
Your argument is akin to saying that Hepatitis C is not a killer because it's really the liver failure that kills you, so it's safe to get. In short, you are heading down the short track to a dumbarse argument.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
You can get pneumonia just from lying down too much. That's why it is usually brought on by some prior sickness. Lying down causes the phlegm to back up in the lungs. Reduced immunity contributes too. But that is a separate illness from measles. It's not etiologically linked to it beyond this.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Last edited:
Vaccination is one less way of contracting any prior sickness. That's the point.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
If you wanna take the risk of it causing autism in your kid.
And you can get HIV from blood transfusions, so anyone who supports condom-education programs is a lying stooge of big pharma. In fact, condoms cause cancer. I saw a study!
http://www.dw.de/german-study-says-condoms-contain-cancer-causing-chemical/a-1220847
Bells
Staff member
Measles complications:
This is why vaccination is important.
Conditions
Diarrhea - 8% reported
Otitis media - 7% reported
Pneumonia - 6% reported
Encephalitis - 0.1% reported
Seizures - 0.6-0.7% reported
Death - 0.2% reported
Approximately 30% of reported measles cases have one or more complications. Complications of measles are more common among children younger than 5 years of age and adults 20 years of age and older.
From 1985 through 1992, diarrhea was reported in 8% of measles cases, making this the most commonly reported complication of measles. Otitis media was reported in 7% of cases and occurs almost exclusively in children. Pneumonia (in 6% of reported cases) may be viral or superimposed bacterial, and is the most common cause of death.
Acute encephalitis occurs in approximately 0.1% of reported cases. Onset generally occurs 6 days after rash onset (range 1–15 days) and is characterized by fever, headache, vomiting, stiff neck, meningeal irritation, drowsiness, convulsions, and coma. Cerebrospinal fluid shows pleocytosis and elevated protein. The case-fatality rate is approximately 15%. Some form of residual neurologic damage occurs in as many as 25% of cases. Seizures (with or without fever) are reported in 0.6%–0.7% of cases.
Death from measles was reported in approximately 0.2% of the cases in the United States from 1985 through 1992. As with other complications of measles, the risk of death is higher among young children and adults. Pneumonia accounts for about 60% of deaths. The most common causes of death are pneumonia in children and acute encephalitis in adults. Since 1995, an average of 1 measles-related death per year has been reported.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a rare degenerative central nervous system disease believed to be due to persistent measles virus infection of the brain. Onset occurs an average of 7 years after measles (range 1 month–27 years), and occurs in five to ten cases per million reported measles cases. The onset is insidious, with progressive deterioration of behavior and intellect, followed by ataxia (awkwardness), myoclonic seizures, and eventually death. SSPE has been extremely rare since the early 1980s.
Measles illness during pregnancy results in a higher risk of premature labor, spontaneous abortion, and low-birthweight infants. Birth defects (with no definable pattern of malformation) have been reported rarely, without confirmation that measles was the cause.
Diarrhea - 8% reported
Otitis media - 7% reported
Pneumonia - 6% reported
Encephalitis - 0.1% reported
Seizures - 0.6-0.7% reported
Death - 0.2% reported
Approximately 30% of reported measles cases have one or more complications. Complications of measles are more common among children younger than 5 years of age and adults 20 years of age and older.
From 1985 through 1992, diarrhea was reported in 8% of measles cases, making this the most commonly reported complication of measles. Otitis media was reported in 7% of cases and occurs almost exclusively in children. Pneumonia (in 6% of reported cases) may be viral or superimposed bacterial, and is the most common cause of death.
Acute encephalitis occurs in approximately 0.1% of reported cases. Onset generally occurs 6 days after rash onset (range 1–15 days) and is characterized by fever, headache, vomiting, stiff neck, meningeal irritation, drowsiness, convulsions, and coma. Cerebrospinal fluid shows pleocytosis and elevated protein. The case-fatality rate is approximately 15%. Some form of residual neurologic damage occurs in as many as 25% of cases. Seizures (with or without fever) are reported in 0.6%–0.7% of cases.
Death from measles was reported in approximately 0.2% of the cases in the United States from 1985 through 1992. As with other complications of measles, the risk of death is higher among young children and adults. Pneumonia accounts for about 60% of deaths. The most common causes of death are pneumonia in children and acute encephalitis in adults. Since 1995, an average of 1 measles-related death per year has been reported.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a rare degenerative central nervous system disease believed to be due to persistent measles virus infection of the brain. Onset occurs an average of 7 years after measles (range 1 month–27 years), and occurs in five to ten cases per million reported measles cases. The onset is insidious, with progressive deterioration of behavior and intellect, followed by ataxia (awkwardness), myoclonic seizures, and eventually death. SSPE has been extremely rare since the early 1980s.
Measles illness during pregnancy results in a higher risk of premature labor, spontaneous abortion, and low-birthweight infants. Birth defects (with no definable pattern of malformation) have been reported rarely, without confirmation that measles was the cause.
This is why vaccination is important.
No scientific evidence to support that claim.
Since I know vaccines don't cause autism, I support making vaccines completely mandatory. For certain things that don't harm others or don't cause much harm, I am ok with allowing people to put themselves at risk (see: Steve Jobs), but this isn't such a case because it puts others at risk.
I'd rather risk autism than measles.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
So did Hannah Polling's parents:
"Hannah Poling was considered normal, happy and precocious until 19 months of age when she was vaccinated against nine diseases in one doctor’s visit: measles, mumps, rubella, polio, varicella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae. Afterward, she developed high fevers, had screaming fits, stopped eating, didn’t respond when spoken to and began showing signs of autism.
As vaccination has grown into a multi-billion dollar industry, children have gone from being inoculated against four diseases in 1953 to today’s recommended schedule of shots for 16 diseases requiring 49 doses by age 6. The government and pharmaceutical industry have said evidence shows babies’ systems can easily handle the immune boost.
In 2002, Hannah’s parents—her father a neurologist, her mother a nurse and attorney—filed a claim in a specially-created federal vaccine court in which the U.S. Department of Justice defends vaccine interests. Hannah was to serve as a test case to help decide the outcome of thousands of vaccine-autism claims.
The case was strong. In 2007, contemplating Hannah would win her claim, sources say the vaccine court analyzed what the broader financial impact might be. It found that a flood of similar vaccine-autism claims would quickly deplete the government’s vaccine injury compensation fund, which is supported by a small fee patients pay on each dose of vaccine.
But instead of allowing Hannah’s case to publicly serve as a precedent for other possible victims, the government took another course: it quietly settled the case and sealed the results. Other families with autistic children were never to know. Hannah’s family petitioned the court to be allowed to reveal the findings but the government fought to keep the case sealed—and prevailed."====http://sharylattkisson.com/cdc-possibility-that-vaccines-rarely-trigger-autism/
Any proof that the two are related? Or is this just another wild guess?
If she had been injured by being in a car crash shortly after she got vaccinated, you would now be claiming that vaccines caused car crashes.