Vaccine related autism study?

You have "provided the evidence" much the same as you did for those made up statistics, hm? Like:



Also, where is your supporting evidence for:



These are just a small sampling of your unsubstantiated claims...

They were never unsubstantiated. I had already posted this whole article in the thread. Here's the final lines of it.

"But I digress, let’s compare measles death rates in 1963 to other death rates in 1963.

In 1963, there were about 450 deaths from measles. Meanwhile, about 12,000 people died from stomach ulcers and the likes. Just over 43,000 people died from car accidents in 1963. Over 700,000 people died from heart disease.

In 1963, you were more likely to be one of the 9200 people murdered that year than to die of measles. If you were born in 1963, you were more likely to die from a congenital disease than from measles. In 1963, it was about 46 times more likely for a child to die from a congenital malformation than for someone to die from the measles."

Frankly, in 1963, you were about 46 times more likely to kill yourself than you were to die from measles."====http://vaxtruth.org/2012/01/measles-perspective/

I also quoted a source showing the chances of dying from measles is closer to 1 in 10,000 now. You can go find that. I'm not going to repeat my whole thread here for you.



Interesting how your guilty conscience works... I was merely providing an example; you are the one who took it to apply to yourself *shrug*

You're the one making the insult. Do you really think that helps your case? It doesn't. It is immature and obnoxious and trollish. Take responsibility for your own words.
 
Babies too young to be vaccinated are protected by their vaccinated mother's antibodies. But even that fails sometimes. So your pathetic baby-killing accusation is exposed. Besides, the unvaccinated at Disneyland are believed to have been foreigners. NOT antivaxxers. I've already stated this. You really should read the whole thread.

What is wrong about this claim? Did you fail to notice the study I already posted showing antibody protection in babies from their mother's milk lasting for a long time? Did you fail to notice the NBC article I quoted showing the measles outbreak was likely caused by a foreigner visiting Disneyland. Once again, your claims are shown to be entirely bogus and contrived. Essentially this means I was infracted for no good reason at all. All the sources for these claims have already been posted. If you had read the thread you would have known this.
 

What is wrong about this claim? Did you fail to notice the study I already posted showing antibody protection in babies from their mother's milks lasting for a long time? Did you fail to notice the NBC article I quoted showing the measles outbreak was likely caused by a foreigner visiting Disneyland. Once again, your claims are shown to be entirely bogus and contrived. Essentially this means I was infracted for no good reason at all. All the sources for these claims have already been posted. If you had read the thread you would have known this.

You apparently don't know how to use Bold...

And you also forgot that I showed the issue with your statement:

During the last three months of pregnancy, antibodies from the mother are passed to her unborn baby through the placenta.

This type of immunity is called passive immunity because the baby has been given antibodies rather than making them itself. Antibodies are special proteins that the immune system produces to help protect the body against bacteria and viruses.

The amount and type of antibodies passed to the baby depends on the mother's immunity. For example, if the mother has had chickenpox, she will have developed immunity against the condition and some of the chickenpox antibodies will be passed to the baby. However, if the mother has not had chickenpox, the baby will not be protected.

Immunity in newborn babies is only temporary and starts to decrease after the first few weeks or months. Breast milk also contains antibodies, which means that babies who are breastfed have passive immunity for longer. The thick, yellowish milk (colostrum) produced for the first few days following birth is particularly rich in antibodies.

Premature babies are at higher risk of developing an illness because their immune systems are not as strong and they have not had as many antibodies passed to them.

As newborn immunity is only temporary, it is important to begin childhood immunisationswhen your baby is two months old. This applies to babies who are either premature or full-term.

The first immunisation, given when your baby is two months old, includes whooping coughand Hib (haemophilus influenza type b) because immunity to these conditions decreases the fastest. Passive immunity to measles, mumps and rubella usually lasts for about a year, which is why the MMR vaccine is given just after your baby's first birthday.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/939.aspx?CategoryID=54

You can think whatever you like MR... but the facts stand and speak for themselves.

You also haven't provided ANY backing for your made-up statistics that one is "more likely to die in a car crash than from measles" and other such bogus claims...

BTW - Tick Tock, you now have 7 hours remaining.
 
I'm glad he opened the thread.
It is worth discussing.

Companies opposing vaccination are often tied into providing alternative medicines.
There's nothing wrong with alternative medicine, but it is not a substitute for conventional medicine.
 
I'm glad he opened the thread.
It is worth discussing.

Companies opposing vaccination are often tied into providing alternative medicines.
There's nothing wrong with alternative medicine, but it is not a substitute for conventional medicine.

Indeed. There is no doubt that Vaccines could be made better, and the less than ideal components reduced or removed... but the suggestion of not having them done is, at best, foolish... not to mention dangerous.
 
You apparently don't know how to use Bold...

And you also forgot that I showed the issue with your statement:



http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/939.aspx?CategoryID=54

You can think whatever you like MR... but the facts stand and speak for themselves.

You also haven't provided ANY backing for your made-up statistics that one is "more likely to die in a car crash than from measles" and other such bogus claims...

BTW - Tick Tock, you now have 7 hours remaining.

Your odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 100. That's way higher than the odds of dying from measles. Here's my source:

http://www.livescience.com/3780-odds-dying.html

What "other such bogus claims" are you referring to? What claim are you waiting to ban me for now? Have you PM'd me a warning on this?
 
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Your odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 100. That's way higher than the odds of dying from measles. Here's my source:

http://www.livescience.com/3780-odds-dying.html

What "other such bogus claims" are you referring to?

Ah, my apologies - you simply misrepresented it then. "motor vehicle accident" and "car crash" are two very different things.

Though it is interesting the difference between your statistics:

http://www.livescience.com/3780-odds-dying.html

Cause of DeathLifetime Odds
Heart Disease

1-in-5

Cancer

1-in-7

Stroke

1-in-23

Accidental Injury

1-in-36

Motor Vehicle Accident*

1-in-100

Intentional Self-harm (suicide)

1-in-121

Falling Down

1-in-246

Assault by Firearm

1-in-325

Fire or Smoke

1-in-1,116

Natural Forces (heat, cold, storms, quakes, etc.)

1-in-3,357

Electrocution*

1-in-5,000

Drowning

1-in-8,942

Air Travel Accident*

1-in-20,000

Flood* (included also in Natural Forces above)

1-in-30,000

Legal Execution

1-in-58,618

Tornado* (included also in Natural Forces above)

1-in-60,000

Lightning Strike (included also in Natural Forces above)

1-in-83,930

Snake, Bee or other Venomous Bite or Sting*

1-in-100,000

Earthquake (included also in Natural Forces above)

1-in-131,890

Dog Attack

1-in-147,717

Asteroid Impact*

1-in-200,000**

Tsunami*1-in-500,000
Fireworks Discharge

1-in-615,488

and the ones from the NSC directly:

http://www.riskcomm.com/visualaids/riskscale/datasources.php

It makes sense though - yours are statistics over a persons lifetime, as opposed to per-year (as mine are). We are not comparing apples to apples here. How did your statistics determine the risk of dying from measles and/or its complications?

Also of interest:

Chronic Lower Respiratory Disease1:29
Intentional Self-harm1:103
Motor Vehicle Crashes1:112

http://www.nsc.org/learn/safety-knowledge/Pages/injury-facts-chart.aspx

Seems one is almost four times as likely to die from a Lower Respiratory Disease than from a Motor Vehicle Accident. Scary shit

I guess now you just have to show actual fact-based evidence that vaccines cause autism.
 
Ah, my apologies - you simply misrepresented it then. "motor vehicle accident" and "car crash" are two very different things.

Though it is interesting the difference between your statistics:

http://www.livescience.com/3780-odds-dying.html



and the ones from the NSC directly:

http://www.riskcomm.com/visualaids/riskscale/datasources.php

It makes sense though - yours are statistics over a persons lifetime, as opposed to per-year (as mine are). We are not comparing apples to apples here. How did your statistics determine the risk of dying from measles and/or its complications?

Also of interest:



http://www.nsc.org/learn/safety-knowledge/Pages/injury-facts-chart.aspx

Seems one is almost four times as likely to die from a Lower Respiratory Disease than from a Motor Vehicle Accident. Scary shit

I guess now you just have to show actual fact-based evidence that vaccines cause autism.

The often quoted stat on dying from measles is 1 or 2 out of 1000. That's from the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html. As for fact-based evidence that vaccines cause autism, see my 40 papers on this link. See also the quoted case of Hannah Polling, who won her court case for being afflicted with autism from being giving 9 vaccines. She was determined to have had a mitochrondrial condition, something that afflicts 1 out 600 babies. That in itself proves overvaccination can cause autism. Who has their baby checked for a mitochrondrial condition before vaccination? Nobody..
 
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The often quoted stat on dying from measles is 1 or 2 out of 1000. That's from the CDC. As for fact-based evidence that vaccines cause autism, see my 40 papers on this link. See also the quoted case of Hannah Polling, who won her court case for being afflicted with autism from being giving 9 vaccines. She was determined to have had a mitochrondrial condition, something that afflicts 1 out 600 babies. That in itself proves overvaccination can cause autism. Who has their baby checked for a mitochrondrial before vaccination? Nobody..

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904

On April 11, 2008, the National Vaccine Advisory Committee took an unusual step: in the name of transparency, trust, and collaboration, it asked members of the public to help set its vaccine-safety research agenda for the next 5 years. Several parents, given this opportunity, expressed concern that vaccines might cause autism — a fear that had recently been fueled by extensive media coverage of a press conference involving a 9-year-old girl named Hannah Poling.

When she was 19 months old, Hannah, the daughter of Jon and Terry Poling, received five vaccines — diphtheria–tetanus–acellular pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), measles–mumps–rubella (MMR), varicella, and inactivated polio. At the time, Hannah was interactive, playful, and communicative. Two days later, she was lethargic, irritable, and febrile. Ten days after vaccination, she developed a rash consistent with vaccine-induced varicella.

Months later, with delays in neurologic and psychological development, Hannah was diagnosed with encephalopathy caused by a mitochondrial enzyme deficit. Hannah's signs included problems with language, communication, and behavior — all features of autism spectrum disorder. Although it is not unusual for children with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies to develop neurologic signs between their first and second years of life, Hannah's parents believed that vaccines had triggered her encephalopathy. They sued the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) for compensation under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) and won.

On March 6, 2008, the Polings took their case to the public. Standing before a bank of microphones from several major news organizations, Jon Poling said that “the results in this case may well signify a landmark decision with children developing autism following vaccinations.”1 For years, federal health agencies and professional organizations had reassured the public that vaccines didn't cause autism. Now, with DHHS making this concession in a federal claims court, the government appeared to be saying exactly the opposite. Caught in the middle, clinicians were at a loss to explain the reasoning behind the VICP's decision.

The Poling case is best understood in the context of the decision-making process of this unusual vaccine court. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, American lawyers successfully sued pharmaceutical companies claiming that vaccines caused a variety of illnesses, including unexplained coma, sudden infant death syndrome, Reye's syndrome, transverse myelitis, mental retardation, and epilepsy. By 1986, all but one manufacturer of the diphtheria–tetanus–pertussis vaccine had left the market. The federal government stepped in, passing the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, which included the creation of the VICP. Funded by a federal excise tax on each dose of vaccine, the VICP compiled a list of compensable injuries. If scientific studies supported the notion that vaccines caused an adverse event — such as thrombocytopenia after receipt of measles-containing vaccine or paralysis after receipt of oral polio vaccine — children and their families were compensated quickly, generously, and fairly. The number of lawsuits against vaccine makers decreased dramatically.

Like the Werderitsh decision, the VICP's concession to Hannah Poling was poorly reasoned. First, whereas it is clear that natural infections can exacerbate symptoms of encephalopathy in patients with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies, no clear evidence exists that vaccines cause similar exacerbations. Indeed, because children with such deficiencies are particularly susceptible to infections, it is recommended that they receive all vaccines.

Second, the belief that the administration of multiple vaccines can overwhelm or weaken the immune system of a susceptible child is at variance with the number of immunologic components contained in modern vaccines. A century ago, children received one vaccine, smallpox, which contained about 200 structural and nonstructural viral proteins. Today, thanks to advances in protein purification and recombinant DNA technology, the 14 vaccines given to young children contain a total of about 150 immunologic components.3

Third, although experts testifying on behalf of the Polings could reasonably argue that development of fever and a varicella-vaccine rash after the administration of nine vaccines was enough to stress a child with mitochondrial enzyme deficiency, Hannah had other immunologic challenges that were not related to vaccines. She had frequent episodes of fever and otitis media, eventually necessitating placement of bilateral polyethylene tubes. Nor is such a medical history unusual. Children typically have four to six febrile illnesses each year during their first few years of life4; vaccines are a minuscule contributor to this antigenic challenge.

Fourth, without data that clearly exonerate vaccines, it could be argued that children with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies might have a lower risk of exacerbations if vaccines were withheld, delayed, or separated. But such changes would come at a price. Even spacing out vaccinations would increase the period during which children were susceptible to natural infections, giving a theoretical risk from vaccines priority over a known risk from vaccine-preventable diseases. These diseases aren't merely historical: pneumococcus, varicella, and pertussis are still common in the United States. Recent measles outbreaks in California, Arizona, and Wisconsin among children whose parents had chosen not to vaccinate them show the real risks of public distrust of immunization.

Your argument here is hinging on a case that the medical and scientific community at large has stated is poorly reasoned...

After the Polings' press conference, Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, responded to their claims that vaccines had caused their daughter's autism. “Let me be very clear that the government has made absolutely no statement . . . indicating that vaccines are a cause of autism,” she said.5 Gerberding's biggest challenge was defining the term “autism.” Because autism is a clinical diagnosis, children are labeled as autistic on the basis of a collection of clinical features. Hannah Poling clearly had difficulties with language, speech, and communication. But those features of her condition considered autistic were part of a global encephalopathy caused by a mitochondrial enzyme deficit. Rett's syndrome, tuberous sclerosis, fragile X syndrome, and Down's syndrome in children can also have autistic features. Indeed, features reminiscent of autism are evident in all children with profound impairments in cognition; but these similarities are superficial, and their causal mechanisms and genetic influences are different from those of classic autism.

Going forward, the VICP should more rigorously define the criteria by which it determines that a vaccine has caused harm. Otherwise, the message that the program inadvertently sends to the public will further erode confidence in vaccines and hurt those whom it is charged with protecting.


And who, in their right mind, suggests getting 9 vaccinations at the same time? Certainly not the CDC!
 
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http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904





Your argument here is hinging on a case that the medical and scientific community at large has stated is poorly reasoned...


And who, in their right mind, suggests getting 9 vaccinations at the same time? Certainly not the CDC!

From 12 to 15 months is the window for as many as 9 vaccines. If a doctor isn't aware of the dangers of overvaccination, it would be very easy to give them all in one multidose. Apparently that's what happened.
 
Companies opposing vaccination are often tied into providing alternative medicines.
There's nothing wrong with alternative medicine, but it is not a substitute for conventional medicine.
"By definition,"
I began,
"Alternative medicine,"
I continue,
"Is medicine that's either not yet been proved to work, or been proved not to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine."

-Tim Minchin, Storm
 
Graph debunked.
Here

measles-canada.jpg

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...us-intellectual-dishonesty-at-its-most-naked/

We already went over this. Your graph shows measles cases. My graph shows measles deaths. It's the dying from measles that we're so worried about isn't it?
 
What is wrong about this claim? Did you fail to notice the study I already posted showing antibody protection in babies from their mother's milk lasting for a long time?
Another fact-free post by MR.

Antibody protection from mother's milk protects against GI infections and a few upper respiratory infections - not measles.
 
Another fact-free post by MR.

Antibody protection from mother's milk protects against GI infections and a few upper respiratory infections - not measles.

"Passive immunity can also be acquired naturally by the fetus due to the transfer of antibodies by the maternal circulation in utero through the placenta around the third month of gestation. Immunity in newborn babies is only temporary and starts to decrease after the first few weeks, or months. Breast milk also contains antibodies, which means that babies who are breastfed have passive immunity for longer periods of time. The thick, yellowish milk (colostrum) that is produced during the first few days after birth is particularly rich in antibodies. For the newborn to have lasting protection, active immunity must be received. The first immunisation, given when a baby is two months old, includes whooping cough and Hib (haemophilus influenza type b) because immunity to these diseases decreases the fastest. Passive immunity to measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) usually lasts for about a year, which is why the MMR is given just after the baby's first birthday."

Source: Boundless. “Passive Immunization.” Boundless Microbiology. Boundless, 30 Dec. 2014. Retrieved 16 Feb. 2015 from https://www.boundless.com/microbiol...munization-147/passive-immunization-736-5429/
 
Passive immunity to measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) usually lasts for about a year, which is why the MMR is given just after the baby's first birthday.
Right. But BREAST MILK does not provide the infant with antibodies or immunity to measles. (And to remind you, you claimed " . . . .showing antibody protection in babies from their mother's milk lasting for a long time.")

===========================
Breast milk is not a substitute for vaccination

It is not uncommon to find folks promoting breastfeeding as a way to boost their children’s immune systems as an alternative rather than an adjunct to vaccination. On the West Coast this philosophy is hindering the regions efforts in achieving high enough vaccine coverage to prevent disease as noted in the Herald this week.

When it comes to prevention of infectious diseases breastfeeding is certainly not a universal elixir.

It is well accepted that infants receive specific immunity in the form of antibodies from their mother through the placenta before birth and in breast milk if they are being breast fed against a range of infections. These antibodies are temporary and wane within weeks to months. Whether a baby receives any antibodies against a particular disease and whether these antibodies are actually protective are dependent on a range of variables. Here are two examples which are of particular concern to communities who do not vaccinate. The two most infectious diseases known to man.
. . . .
Measles

While infants may receive protective levels of antibody against measles from their mother, this rapidly wanes leaving them vulnerable. There is little or no measles antibody passed through breast milk. A study in Belgium found even when mothers had experienced clinical measles disease the antibodies passed to their babies only endured for a median of up to 3.78 months. Breastfeeding did not impact on the decay time of antibody. There is certainly some evidence that breastfeeding can reduce the severity of measles infection. A large British study investigated if breast feeding modified clinical measles and also the effect of immunisation. Breastfeeding was associated with a modest reduction in measles diagnosis but in contrast measles vaccination was highly associated with a low risk for measles. In other words, breast feeding helps a bit but vaccination is very effective.

http://sciblogs.co.nz/diplomaticimmunity/2013/07/02/breast-milk-is-not-a-substitute-for-vaccination/
 
From the BMJ:

==================
The starting concentrations of maternal antibodies in infants in this study depended highly on the concentration of antibodies in the mother and on her vaccination status. Infants of vaccinated women started with significantly fewer antibodies than did infants of naturally immune women. The rate of decay of maternal antibodies was slightly steeper in infants of naturally immune women (fig 2). The median time to loss of immunity was 2.61 months: 0.97 months for infants of vaccinated women and 3.78 months for infants of naturally immune women. We prefer to use the median rather than the mean time to loss of immunity because a quarter of the infants of vaccinated women started at birth with antibody titres below the threshold we used, which influences the mean. We found no significant impact of breast feeding, parity, birth weight, educational level, caesarean section, or day care attendance on the duration of maternal antibodies.
===================


http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c1626
 
From the BMJ:

==================
The starting concentrations of maternal antibodies in infants in this study depended highly on the concentration of antibodies in the mother and on her vaccination status. Infants of vaccinated women started with significantly fewer antibodies than did infants of naturally immune women. The rate of decay of maternal antibodies was slightly steeper in infants of naturally immune women (fig 2). The median time to loss of immunity was 2.61 months: 0.97 months for infants of vaccinated women and 3.78 months for infants of naturally immune women. We prefer to use the median rather than the mean time to loss of immunity because a quarter of the infants of vaccinated women started at birth with antibody titres below the threshold we used, which influences the mean. We found no significant impact of breast feeding, parity, birth weight, educational level, caesarean section, or day care attendance on the duration of maternal antibodies.
===================


http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c1626

There is certainly some evidence that breastfeeding can reduce the severity of measles infection. A large British study investigated if breast feeding modified clinical measles and also the effect of immunisation. Breastfeeding was associated with a modest reduction in measles diagnosis
 
There is certainly some evidence that breastfeeding can reduce the severity of measles infection. A large British study investigated if breast feeding modified clinical measles and also the effect of immunisation. Breastfeeding was associated with a modest reduction in measles diagnosis

Changing your story now? You originally claimed that nursing provided immunity by ". . . .showing antibody protection in babies from their mother's milk lasting for a long time." That is false. There is no antibody protection, and breastfeeding is no substitute for vaccination.

You are now claiming that breast feeding helps overall in reducing the severity of diseases and helps keep infants healthy. That is definitely true - and a completely different topic.

As a suggestion, perhaps you could post such misinformation in the thread you already started, rather than posting it in a thread in Open Government. It would be nice to keep all the BS in one thread.
 
Yes, you are right, that analysis debunks a different graph.
But death is not the only consideration.

By the late 1950s, even before the introduction of measles vaccine, measles-related deaths and case fatality rates in the United States had decreased markedly, presumably as a result of improvement in health care and nutrition. From 1956 to 1960, an average of 450 measles-related deaths were reported each year (∼1 death/ 1000 reported cases), compared with an average of 5300 measles-related deaths during 1912–1916 (26 deaths/ 1000 reported cases) [2]. Nevertheless, in the late 1950s, serious complications due to measles remained frequent and costly. As a result of measles virus infections, an average of 150,000 patients had respiratory complications and 4000 patients had encephalitis each year; the latter was associated with a high risk of neurological sequelae and death. These complications and others resulted in an estimated 48,000 persons with measles being hospitalized every year

see http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S1.long

In addition to serious complications, there is a cost factor.

The measles resurgence also demonstrated the high financial cost of measles in a developed country. Mason et al. [8]. found that the average expense for a measles hospitalization at Los Angeles Children's Hospital during the resurgence was $9264 [8]. Hatziandreu et al. [9].estimated that the average cost (direct and indirect) of a measles case in 1994 was $1000. The same study estimated total annual costs of measles in the absence of a vaccination program of $3.8 billion with 1859 deaths. The United States spends ∼$45 million annually for the measles component of measles-mumps-rubella vaccine, to avoid this burden [9].

See http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S1.long
 
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