US soldier kills puppy, the whole world gets upset

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I don't remember asking anybody if I was a barbarian. Please tell me where I did. I know I'm not a barbarian.
When you actually go over there, and can make assessments from something other than the media, then get back to me.

Perhaps I put it across wrong,
"American's call them hero's of peace and democracy yet they act like barbarians with little or no morals of life." Is prob' better.
I certainly did not mean to offend you in a personal way

Because we all know that the media is the be all end all for useful/truthful information.

Where do most people get their info on war on the middle east from, agreed media is mostly Bull but there is still some truth.Just look at history always the civilians who get it of the americans Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam forced civilians to pick up arms through fear, hell wasn't the first Atom bomb dropped during the 2nd day of peace talks, going back further wasn't there an incident where the main indian chiefs were called for peace talks and the sharing of land but it was a trap and they were all executed?
Where do you want me to get my facts from.
Admitedly I shouldn't have tarred all with the same brush and as you seem mighty pissed I hope you don't tak it personaly as obviously 'not all are the same'.

The Viet Cong would send a child holding a grenade into the midst of a group of American soldiers over there to kill them. Regardless of what we were doing, do you think what the VC was doing was anymore moral? I question your humanity if you do.

Hold on a minute, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN VIETNAM IN THE FIRST PLACE, you again attacked civillians who were forced to defend themselves, YOU INVADED VIETNAM, if that child was an orphan whose parents had been killed by Americans then ' so be it' they were soldiers they were paid to die.

You're calling American servicemembers Barbarians because of what you read in the media. How did you expect me to take it?

Again should have been 'some' not 'all', but the 'some' are becoming 'more'.(if it's any consolation I wish Ihad used another word now)

 

[John99]

Hold on a minute, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN VIETNAM IN THE FIRST PLACE, you again attacked civillians who were forced to defend themselves, YOU INVADED VIETNAM, if that child was an orphan whose parents had been killed by Americans then ' so be it' they were soldiers they were paid to die.

Animals are treated like shit all over the world, even wiping them out completely. Check out the endangered species ending up on dinner plates in Asia. How about WW2 perhaps you fell U.S should have stayed out of that also?

 

[S.A.M.]

Barbarian is a word based on a greek word for 'foreign, strange' and used to describe people not part of the so-called civilizations. In other words it is a word that has been used to justify the work of empires. And since empires, or civilizations, are responsible for the greatest mass killings and have justified these in ways not unlike the ways the Iraq war was justified, it might be better to find another word. May seem like nitpicking, but the last of the 'barbarians' are still being wiped out across the world as we speak, either culturally wiped out, or separated from their land, or literally wiped out, or all three.

Why, don't you consider US hegemony and its brainless troops that invade and occupy an apt analogy for the empiristic barbarians of old? Just look at the investment in lies, smoke, secrecy and stuff like the "Patriot" Act used to justify anything from "collateral damage" to Abu Ghraib.

 

[S.A.M.]

I don't remember asking anybody if I was a barbarian. Please tell me where I did. I know I'm not a barbarian.
When you actually go over there, and can make assessments from something other than the media, then get back to me.

You're calling American servicemembers Barbarians because of what you read in the media. How did you expect me to take it?

I just gave my opinion on your comment.

I used to be a servicemember, so you're essentially calling me a barbarian. F U.


They? Who are 'they'?

 

[John99]

So lets all pretend that no one has ever killed a puppy before.

 

[mikenostic]

Perhaps I put it across wrong,
"American's call them hero's of peace and democracy yet they act like barbarians with little or no morals of life." Is prob' better.
I certainly did not mean to offend you in a personal way

Fair enough.
A lot of Americans ARE arrogant pompous jackasses. They are the ones who give the U.S. a bad name.

Where do most people get their info on war on the middle east from, agreed media is mostly Bull but there is still some truth.Just look at history always the civilians who get it of the americans Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam forced civilians to pick up arms through fear, hell wasn't the first Atom bomb dropped during the 2nd day of peace talks

Don't bring up the a-bomb. AFAIC, Japan deserved both of them. Those MFs were the reason we got involved in WWII.
As far as peace talks goes, Japan 'led' the U.S. around with 'peace talks' for several months before Pearl Harbor, planning an attack on Pearl Harbor all along.

, going back further wasn't there an incident where the main indian chiefs were called for peace talks and the sharing of land but it was a trap and they were all executed?

I'll be the first to say that I do not approve in any way the way that we treated the Native Americans. I honestly wish they would have stood their ground against the European immigrants. But they didn't and what happened, happened and we're all here.

Where do you want me to get my facts from.
Admitedly I shouldn't have tarred all with the same brush and as you seem mighty pissed I hope you don't tak it personaly as obviously 'not all are the same'.

Thanks. Where else can you get your info from? Don't you know anyone that has been over there? My unit went to Iraq in 2004. I didn't get to go because I wasn't with the deployable section. One of my buddies was on the Iraqi Survey Group* over there. When the unit came back, I asked him; Do you think we're right for being over there? Do you think they appreciate us being over there? He said yes on both counts. He said that the media tends to report all the bad shit going on over there and fails miserably to show footage of servicemembers helping communities over there exponentially more than they are causing any destruction. That's one reason I don't trust the media to report the right stuff anymore. They like to report shit that has 'stir the pot' potential. It's all about ratings with them.
Anyway, while I starkly disagree with the false pretenses under which we went to Iraq (Afghanistan is a different story, though), I feel that we are doing the right thing while we're there. It is a big mess though.

Hold on a minute, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN VIETNAM IN THE FIRST PLACE, you again attacked civillians who were forced to defend themselves, YOU INVADED VIETNAM, if that child was an orphan whose parents had been killed by Americans then ' so be it' they were soldiers they were paid to die.

Yes, I know we shouldn't have been in Vietnam in the first place. But guess what? The blame should go on a crooked president (remember, the one who resigned because they were going to impeach him??), not the U.S. servicemembers. And as far as orders go, the draft was in effect back then. Soldiers were forced to go over there, or else they either had to go to jail, or pull a Bill Clinton.
And those fuckin hippies who spit on and threw shit at our servicemembers when they arrived home, showed a lack of class and maturity that I've never seen before.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Survey_Group

Again should have been 'some' not 'all', but the 'some' are becoming 'more'.(if it's any consolation I wish Ihad used another word now)

Thanks for taking the time to clarify. I'll have to apologize as well for reacting so harshly.

I wish Sam had the ability to see things from others' perspectives like you. But I guess I can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. LOL

 

[S.A.M.]

Fair enough.
A lot of Americans ARE arrogant pompous jackasses. They are the ones who give the U.S. a bad name.

Exhibit A:

Don't bring up the a-bomb. AFAIC, Japan deserved both of them. Those MFs were the reason we got involved in WWII.
As far as peace talks goes, Japan 'led' the U.S. around with 'peace talks' for several months before Pearl Harbor, planning an attack on Pearl Harbor all along.

Anyway, while I starkly disagree with the false pretenses under which we went to Iraq (Afghanistan is a different story, though), I feel that we are doing the right thing while we're there. It is a big mess though.

And those fuckin hippies who spit on and threw shit at our servicemembers when they arrived home, showed a lack of class and maturity that I've never seen before.

http://structureoflies.blogspot.com/2004/08/who-spit-on-vietnam-vets-not-anti-war.html

http://www.amazon.com/Spitting-Image-Memory-Legacy-Vietnam/dp/0814751474

Gee!

If only we could be as blind and oblivious as you.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

Fair enough.
A lot of Americans ARE arrogant pompous jackasses. They are the ones who give the U.S. a bad name.

Agreed
.

AFAIC,

what does this stand for?

Yes, I know we shouldn't have been in Vietnam in the first place. But guess what? The blame should go on a crooked president (remember, the one who resigned because they were going to impeach him??), not the U.S. servicemembers.

I completely agree.And take into account your current president to.

And those fuckin hippies who spit on and threw shit at our servicemembers when they arrived home, showed a lack of class and maturity that I've never seen before.

It is hardly and intelligent way to get a point across

But I guess I can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. LOL

LOL

 

[dsdsds]

Perhaps people see it as a symbol of the loss of humanity.

I agree. And the video breaks my heart.

 

[wsionynw]

In the following video an US soldier in Iraq throws a puppy off the cliffs:

http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=463231

This got almost 7000 diggs, which is a lot and by reading the comments, one can see that the readers are all upset. Of course killing an innocent puppy this way is wrong, but US soldiers also killed about 100K Iraqis and probably a decent % of them innocent. Not many people got upset about that.

So I figure, if we want to make the US leave Iraq, we just have to make them accidentally bomb an animal shelter....

Edit: Can a moderator correct the threadtitle? Thanks...

I doesn't matter that it's a soldier or that it was in Iraq. It's disgusting that any person should harm an animal.

 

[John99]

I doesn't matter that it's a soldier or that it was in Iraq. It's disgusting that any person should harm an animal.

EXACTLY.

I didnt nor will i even watch the video, what is the point?:shrug:

 

[mikenostic]

Exhibit A:

http://structureoflies.blogspot.com/2004/08/who-spit-on-vietnam-vets-not-anti-war.html

http://www.amazon.com/Spitting-Image-Memory-Legacy-Vietnam/dp/0814751474

Gee!

If only we could be as blind and oblivious as you.

You just don't get it. Even after it's explained to you. My dogs need things explained to them less repeatedly than you do.

It is hardly and intelligent way to get a point across

Do you mean what I said, or what the hippies were doing?

what does this stand for?

As Far As I'm Concerned.

 

[Pandaemoni]

I don't understand the hang wringing. First, it's a dog. There are too many of them in the world already. Dog catchers kille them every day, and it's no like there's a dog shortage over in Iraq. If the soldier did the same thing to a rat, no one would give that rat's ass.

Second, and more fundamentally (as we can all agree that there is no good reason for killing living things inhumanely) there is some discussion on this video that seems to imply that Americans "care more" about a dog than they do about Iraqis. Thats silly. If this video had shown the soldier holding an Iraqi by the neck (a) I doubt the soldier would have killed an actual human being is he or she (like the puppy) were non-threatening and (b) the world and Americaqns would be in a *far* greater uproar if the video DID show the death of a human.

The outrage engendered by the video comes because we get to see the treatment inflicted on the dog, not as a result of our caring more simply because it *is* a dog. If there were videos of Iraqis dying in American bombing campaigns, that would be very hard top watch. It would not make the bombing any more or any less justified, but it would move the bombings out of the the abstract realm and make the costs of them more concrete. Some will feel that making them concrete in that manner would be a good thing, believing that Americans underestimate the costs of the war, others would view it as a bad thing, believing that such videos would simply be used tro make inherently fallacious, but far more effective "appeals to emotion" in connection with arguments against the war.

The soldier killed a dog. Bad soldier! He should be administratively punished and then sent back to work.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I don't understand the hang wringing. First, it's a dog. .

Its Sadistic an act purely for his own pleasure to inflict suffering, to make him feel big, If this had not been a soldier he would probably be forced to have Pshyciatric therapy.
would you be happy for him to be a caretaker at your kids school when he comes home............?
Do you think there is a place in society for people like that...........?
When children do it a percentage end up commiting similar crimes on humans, how will he GET HIS KICK'S when he get's home, how long till he kill's for pleasure.................?
It's not definatly but it's a poss.

 

[Syzygys]

So lets all pretend that no one has ever killed a puppy before.

A valid argument could be made, that they had to kill the puppy because it was an orphan, they didn't have the means for careing for it,etc. But a bullet to the head would have been a better way to do so, then LAUGHING their ASS off and having fun videoing it while thowing it down.

Capisce???

 

[draqon]

So I figure, if we want to make the US leave Iraq, we just have to make them accidentally bomb an animal shelter....

thats a great idea

 

[Syzygys]

Update on the story, the Marine Corps is investigating the incident and the dude is being harrased:

http://heraldnet.com/article/20080303/NEWS01/367822819

 

[Asguard]

Syzygys

one comment that might or might not be helpful, cruelity to animals is a sign of sociopathic tendancies. Now if i was out fighting for my life i DEFINITLY wouldnt want to be standing next to a guy would would be quite willing to shoot the enermie or turn around and shoot ME in the balls (or where ever) for fun.

So even in the millarty sociopaths are a BAD idea

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated"--Mahatama Gandhi

Thank you! But more than that, dogs have a special place in our hearts. They were the first domesticated animal, and it was voluntary because it happened in the Mesolithic Era before we knew enough to be able to tame animals. Dogs decided to join us. We learned to live in peace and harmony with "folks" of another species that we couldn't even talk to, at a time when we considered the people in the tribe in the next valley competitors and enemies. I have spoken at great length elsewhere of my hypothesis that this experience with dogs gave us the idea that we might be able to learn to get along with other people. It's suspicious that after being nomadic hunter-gatherers for eons, merely a couple of thousand years after we joined with dogs we started building permanent farming villages and then civilization. We might owe absolutely everything we have to dogs. I think that deep down inside we know that. Abusing a dog goes against something very deep.

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN VIETNAM IN THE FIRST PLACE

A now-forgotten outrage from the Vietnam war: Our military forces had to leave in such a hurry that they could not take their trained dogs with them. The soldiers who handled those dogs were just sick over this.

Our troops in Iraq are not allowed to have pets, but that doesn't stop them from clandestinely adopting stray dogs that come around. There is an organization that quietly makes the arrangements to bring these dogs to America when the soldiers come home.

Humans love dogs. We've loved dogs longer than we've loved other people! Anybody who tries to fuck with that is in really deep shit.

Exhibit A: [Torture]

In a recent episode of the comic strip "Prickly City," One character was saying, "We have to do water-boarding." The other guy said, "We can't. We're the good guys.

Then she says, "They commit torture. Why can't we?" He says, "Because we're the good guys."

"But they cut people's heads off!" "It doesn't matter. We're the good guys."

She gives up and says, "Geeze, it's really tough being the good guys."

He says, "Of course it is. If it was easy, everybody would be one."

 

[Asguard]

.A now-forgotten outrage from the Vietnam war: Our military forces had to leave in such a hurry that they could not take their trained dogs with them. The soldiers who handled those dogs were just sick over this.

FR have you ever herd about the charge of the light brigade? (sorry if you were Australian i wouldnt even ask the question but im not sure how much millatry history you know)

At the end of the war when our solders were coming home they couldnt bring the horses back so they had to shoot them. It was devistating for them because the horses had saved there lives more than once