understanding delusion

(Q) said:
Adstar

I am interested in the salvation of individuals not this world.

Yes, adstar, that is exactly the problem, that is EXACTLY the problem.

The defeatist theist would rather look forward to death than face the problems and issues they themselves helped to create.

They are Nero's playing while Rome burns.
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:) Well well well i hear all the time people in here blasting "christians" for trying to impost biblical laws on the wider community by influencing government law makers. I hear people blasting "christians" for crusades and such. But now i get this. :D See no matter what i say your irrational hatred for Christianity will twist it around to show it in a bad light. To you the Christian cup is always half empty no matter what i say Q.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar

It has nothing to do with Christianity specifically - it concerns ALL religions, especially those with a promise of an afterlife.
 
Adstar,

A bad Christian? Thing is i do not believe george bush is a Christian. He is a skull and bones, masonic , lucifarian cobalist, illuminist, babylonian whatever you want to call it plant. I don't believe any Christian would ever make it to your oval office. I don't even think a true Christian would ever try to obtain political office.

But i suppose people do not want to hear that. Many "christians" do not want to believe that because they want so much to believe that he is a Christian and many athiest do not want to believe that because they also want to believe george is a Christian.
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He is a Christian - he says so, Billy Graham says so, Pat Robertson says so, and Jerry Falwell says so - so it must be true.

But primarily he is a moron - which is what galls you the most - that a Christian could be a moron.
 
bush actually said that god wanted him to invade iraq and get saddam.

I would like to see more well known christians publicly outing bush as being NOT "a christian", and pointing out how he violates christianity.

There were definately some christians though who voiced their opinions that the invasion of iraq was wrong, and opposed the invasion from day 1.
I really respect them for saying that.
 
here's some thigs i have gleaned explorin about tis. Lucifer is seen by Luciferians to be the liberator of te intellect. which includes occultic knowledge....
for te Christians Lucifer is Satan

For Luciferians Jesu is a complete no-no, and 'God' is a bad god/'Adonay', yet they accept there has to be light and dark, but THIS is the clue about teir mindset

unlike say Tapist philosophical insight about light and dark being complimentary, for the Luciferians they are in constant conflicyt wid each other. now, isn't that te ame minset of the Christins also....?that they be;ieve they can eventually defeat their 'Devfil'?...what?

shoulda read....kowing that---ie., looking at the two myths, Luciferian and Christrian belonging to patriarchal mindset 'let's me trust myself'

shit. my typos
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ummm i am not to sure i have your thoughts right duendy. especaly the end part?

But i will comment on beliefs.

lucifarians come in many different shades but most see satan (lucifer) as a God and they also see The God of abraham (Adonay) as God. Yes they see satan as the good God and Yahweh as the bad God. There are some satanists who believe that Jesus and satan are brothers, mormons believe this also.

But anyway lucifarianism traps all existence into an eternal conflict because God cannot be destroyed for them satan and Yahweh will be fighting forever to control creation.

But for Christians luclfer/satan is a created being just like all the other angels. There is only One God Yahweh who can not be defeated but allows limited resistance as a necessary part of His eternal plan. Yahweh desires something and He is willing to put up with darkness until He gets it.

While satan seeks to block Gods plan God uses satan as a filter to remove those not apart of Gods eternal plan.


One more thing Christians do not believe we can defeat the devil as in destroy Him but we can take part in Gods victory by belief in Jesus. We will not overcome our sinful nature by our own efforts or deeds. God will remove our sinful nature when He deems it to be the right time.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Cris said:
Adstar,

He is a Christian - he says so, Billy Graham says so, Pat Robertson says so, and Jerry Falwell says so - so it must be true.

But primarily he is a moron - which is what galls you the most - that a Christian could be a moron.
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And who says that these 3 men are Christians?????


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Nobody has adressed my concern about the irony of religion. Most christians have historically and to the presant day scoffed at the idea of evolution which can to our best devices be observed.

Aren't theists concerned about the fact the 2,000 year old man-made God has become so outdated that science has already dis-proven the God they believe in?

I wonder if they should turn to science to find out about the God that created us and our universe.
 
Huwy said:
bush actually said that god wanted him to invade iraq and get saddam.

I would like to see more well known christians publicly outing bush as being NOT "a christian", and pointing out how he violates christianity.

There were definately some christians though who voiced their opinions that the invasion of iraq was wrong, and opposed the invasion from day 1.
I really respect them for saying that.
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george bushes "god" probably did want him to invade iraq. but who is geroge bushes "god" ? is it Yahweh or is it lucifer/satan?

You know what i believe.

And as for "well known christians" why do you think they are well known? Who do you think controls the media that allows them to be well known? Come on now think a bit. In a world run by satanists who gets to control the loud speakers?


All Praise The Ancient of Days
 
""And who says that these 3 men are Christians????? """
They do!!

Just like terrorists disgrace islam but claim to be muslim!!

So it is the responsibility of the sensible majority to out these extremists, but do they?

""george bushes "god" probably did want him to invade iraq. but who is geroge bushes "god" ? is it Yahweh or is it lucifer/satan?""

Adstar, Obviously I prefer your non war-mongering "god" over his, but
You say his god isnt real, and he says your god isnt real.
The Question is, who's to say whose god is more real?


KennyJC "thank god" for people like you. :)
 
And who says that these 3 men are Christians?????

Anyone can say they are of any religious denomination and there is nothing you can say otherwise, just as you can say what you are. I can claim to be Muslim, and there is nothing you or anyone else can say or do that would disprove my claim.

That's the 'beauty' of religion. No previous qualifications are required.
 
Huwy said:
Why didn't he intervene on September 11?

Oh thats right, because the (Christian) project for a new american century http://www.newamericancentury.org/

...planned and executed those hijackings and attacks, the defense standdown, the demolitions, and the lie that men from CAVES were behind it all.
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You make a great case for nameless' point about creative license for reality. Will you be as blindly dogmatic defending your belief in this regard as adstar is in defending his? Are you 100% sure you're correct? Adstar obviously is.

If you are so sure, then you and he are alike.
 
Except theres a shitload of evidence that 9/11 does NOT fit the story we are told to believe, and no evidence of "god"
 
(Q) said:
And who says that these 3 men are Christians?????

Anyone can say they are of any religious denomination and there is nothing you can say otherwise, just as you can say what you are. I can claim to be Muslim, and there is nothing you or anyone else can say or do that would disprove my claim.

That's the 'beauty' of religion. No previous qualifications are required.
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Those who claim they are islamic have the koran to be tested by, those who claim to follow Jesus have the Gospels to be tested by. Those who claim to be buddhists have the teachings of the buddha to be tested by.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Huwy said:
Except theres a shitload of evidence that 9/11 does NOT fit the story we are told to believe, and no evidence of "god"
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Well at least we agree on the first point.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
Those who claim they are islamic have the koran to be tested by, those who claim to follow Jesus have the Gospels to be tested by. Those who claim to be buddhists have the teachings of the buddha to be tested by.
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Just out of curiosity - what do you do with all the contradictions within the Gospels - the supposed facts that are disputed even between the writers of the Gospels?
There are even contradictions WITHIN the same Gospel:

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

With regard to doing good deeds:
Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV)
Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secert. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV)

So should a Christian do good deeds in secret, or openly?


With respect to Jesus' last words:
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."


How can someone be "tested" against Gospels that have so many inconsistencies?
Or is this merely so the tester can use whichever interpretation suits their needs better and claim to be a Christian.

And as for inconsistencies outside of the 4 main Gospels!!!!
 
Adstar said:
ummm i am not to sure i have your thoughts right duendy. especaly the end part?

But i will comment on beliefs.

lucifarians come in many different shades but most see satan (lucifer) as a God and they also see The God of abraham (Adonay) as God. Yes they see satan as the good God and Yahweh as the bad God. There are some satanists who believe that Jesus and satan are brothers, mormons believe this also.

me[[[[[[[Yes. the Idea of the Brothers 'DArk' and 'Light' is quite an ancient idea/metaphor to explin nifght and day, sunrise sunset moon phases etc. Have about this in my notes, i'll try find

But anyway lucifarianism traps all existence into an eternal conflict because God cannot be destroyed for them satan and Yahweh will be fighting forever to control creation.

me))And as you know tis is mainly from Zoroastrian infuence where there was the good god versus the bad god eternally in conflict. and di you know the Hebrews were very influenced by all that?...so it seems. wit Cristianity is the idea that the 'bad god'. their 'Devil' can be defeated, whih has been called--ie., this mythological idea--'Ultimate Dualism'. the idea that you can lock away 'evil',and have all goodness and light. can you not see the danger of THIS belief too?

But for Christians luclfer/satan is a created being just like all the other angels. There is only One God Yahweh who can not be defeated but allows limited resistance as a necessary part of His eternal plan. Yahweh desires something and He is willing to put up with darkness until He gets it.

me)))tell me in as much detail as you can what that is 'he' wants?

While satan seeks to block Gods plan God uses satan as a filter to remove those not apart of Gods eternal plan.

me::::::well apparently, in Judaic mythology, the character Satan was just that--a kind ofTrickster for 'God'....only wit Christian interpretaions does 'Satan' become the 'Devil'


One more thing Christians do not believe we can defeat the devil as in destroy Him but we can take part in Gods victory by belief in Jesus. We will not overcome our sinful nature by our own efforts or deeds. God will remove our sinful nature when He deems it to be the right time.

me))))and meanwhile...? ypou are caught in time?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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)))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 
Going back to the topic title - Anyone in the UK see the news? They featured a creationist museum in America, and had interviews with creationists. The look on the reporters face at the end spoke a thousand words.

Understanding delusion? No, 75% of Americans do not understand. Only 25% in fact understand the basic scientific concept of evolution.
 
It is disturbing this forcing of schools to teach ID theory in science class.
A lot of science/biology teachers have had no choice but to quit their jobs - I can't imagine how hard it would be to be forced to teach ID and evolution side by side, but I still think they should try.

Its obviously what any group of unbiased young people would decide on by the end of the semester.

except of course for "mah daddy tol me that women folk did come from one of Adams ribs!!!"
Isnt adam supposed to have lived for like 900 years? Must have had the best multivitamin supplements available! Its all those eden fresh fruits and veg!

Still leaves the question though, if Cain killed Abel, who did Cain have sex with to make more children? Eve?
 
From this Amerikkkan growing Xtian religious insanity (like a frikkin' virus) I think that the only 'second coming' will be of............... Torquemada!
 
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