Unbelievable velocity mass variation!

I know what you will say now: "Self deluded wishfull thinking..."
Well I'd spell it correctly, but yes. Your entire attitude is that you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong or "not thinking out of the box" or whatever. But the reality is that any discussion with you is one-sided. You want to talk but not listen. I can easily look at and evaluate what's on your website, but you can't do the same with mainstream physics. I can easily understand your perspectives and opinions, but because you never bothered to learn mainstream physics, you have no way of understanding my perspectives on anything.

If you want to keep telling yourself that you can replace all of modern physics based on ignorance of it, then I can't stop you. But no-one in physics will ever take you seriously, and you'll have crippled yourself from being able to understand the real reason why.
 
We have already seen. Your website has been up for at least six or seven years now. You have tried to draw attention to yourself many times on online forums. Nobody is taking you seriously.
 
And even ignoring these issues, you still have the problem that we're not just measuring any large energy for collisions, but we're measuring energies that are consistent with the theoretically expected collision energy. In every accelerator ever built. What's your explanation for that? Coincidence?


Hi guys. :)

Just out of curiosity about the instrument/analysis setup....


Is the calibration of the detector/measurement equipment etc for the 'events' constrained to a certain range of 'detectability' to begin with? Or is the detector/measurement equipment capable of measuring any unusuallly high energy particle formation/decay 'event' as martillo posits?


And if such extremely high energy particle/events were to be capable of detection by the detector/equipment, would the post-event analysis process automatically 'reject' extreme highs and lows as spurios 'artifact' data points because the modling/analysis is constrained by upper/lower bounds by initial premises/assumptions when designing the detector/experiment/analysis?

I ask this because I am aware that some analyticl techniques automatically 'discard' unexpectedly low or high data values and concentrate on the 'rich middle' for the post analysis/interpretations etc. to avoid 'spurious equipment/measurement artifacts' from 'skewing' the data set obtained. :)

I just want to eliminate this possibility from my own observation of this discussion so far. Thanks.



Oh, by the way, experiments have shown that where there is enough energy density present at an event centre of sufficient localisation to allow the incoming energy to concentrate and interact for long enough and strongly enough, the result is particle 'pair creation'. Bearing this in mind, I am wondering whether the concentration of particle/energy in the dense/powerful 'pulses' being accelerated in those machines will be 'creating' new particle pairs from the energy being pumped into the beam constituents/concentrations even as they are being accelerated and even before they collide/intersect?

I know that charged particles like electrons and positrons emit synchrotron type radiation as they are accelerated around the 'track', but is it possible that the energy inherent in the pulses of electrons/positrons are creating particle pairs which immediately mutually annihilate a short distance from the beam/pulse and so may be 'later' detected further away by the surrounding detectors/instruments as synchrotron radiation, but which radiation may have started out as particle pairs created by the energy densities being pumped into the bunhes' by the superconducting electromagnets, which great input energy is continually present/moving along with the 'changing location' of the accelerating 'bunches' of particles/antiparticles in the beams?

Please note: No claims made. Just curiousity stemming from other background/associated observations/info. Cheers! :)

.
 
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We have already seen. Your website has been up for at least six or seven years now. You have tried to draw attention to yourself many times on online forums. Nobody is taking you seriously.
And it worthed. You know, correcting things, developing new things, verifying, improving...
Who knows next.
 
Now I understand. The maximum energy of a proton is something less than 1Gev (E=mc2). Then the problem is how particles of about 90 Gev could be generated with protons of 1 Gev?. The point is that those particles are generated with beams of protons and so in principle (just a theoreticall example) you can collide a beam of 45 protons of say 1Gev with other beam of 45 protons of 1Gev to generate a unique particle of 90Gev energy. And you can have beams of a lot of more quantity of particles.
The same could be applied to beams of electrons. In principle you can have a beam of 45Gev of electrons with 90x10exp6 (90 millons) electrons. This could be accomplished with dense beams.


Sensical possible justifications to all the features you have throwed to me were found. The unique exception is that of the "rough" changes you say would exist in the labs something I don't understand well enough. May be this could also be explained with the considerations above and considering for example that at LHC much more dense or thick beams could be produced. But you know, since the LHC begun operating nothing really surprising found in it was commented in Physics forums. May be only the FTL neutrinos were commented but now it is said that they actually are not FTL.

I think my chances are good...
Your chances aren't good. It's literally a homework problem for people learning field theory 101 to work out the density of particles in accelerator beams and compute scattering cross sections.

It's extremely rare to get just 2 particles to collide head on, which is why billions of them are in each beam and why accelerators run for most of a decade. It's extremely rare to get 3 or more particles to interact. You're talking about 90 particles!!

Standard QFT methods account for this by the fact each interaction involves a coupling constant and in things like QED this is small so more itneractions are less likely. Photons don't interact with one another directly but they can do so, according to QED, if they convert into electrons and positrons (or any matter/antimatter pairing), which then exchange photons and convert back into photons themselves. This involves lots of interactions, making it less likely (the simplest contribution is the box diagram in QED). It's so rare the LHC is the first accelerator to be able to see the signal. The only other way to measure the effect is using petawatt lasers!

As has been said to you, you're having to rely on the argument "Since it's possible to come up with some other interpretation of the data it's reasonable to think the current interpretation is wrong.". No, you have to factor in how reasonable alternative explanations are. It's the "When you hear hoof steps think horses, not zebras". QFT may not be perfect but it's a fact it's made predictions which have later been tested and found to be accurate to parts per trillion. You're asking us to throw that out and all the machinery we have to understand other phenomena, based on the notion it could all be a massive coincidence, in every experiment by every group with every accelerator for the whole of particle physics history, all because you don't buy it.

Don't get me wrong, if someone handed me absolutely sound experimental evidence which showed relativity or QFT wrong and asked "Do you want to publish this" I'd cut off a finger to get my name on the author list! You'd be immortal in the domain of science. But it would need to be actual evidence, not "I've got my own interpretation" or "I don't like the mainstream".

You fail to provide that. You fail to show the level of competency in science I'd expect of students. Hell, it's not even a matter of thinking you couldn't pass an undergrad exam but rather you're not even getting the ethos of science. Conjecture and intuition have their place but not in the way you're applying them. And this whole "Oh we'll see!" attitude is laughable. You've admitted to spamming research groups with your work, just like Sylwester did (he emailed 1600 scientists!!), just like Farsight with his adverts in physics magazines, just like Magneto writing 'textbooks' on stuff he doesn't understand.

You've all been at it for years and none of you have advanced at all. In the time since your "A New Light in Physics" website went online some people have done entire degrees, masters, PhDs, published numerous papers and gotten recognition for their research! The people you try to deride move on with their work, you seem to be stuck in neutral. It's not hard to pick up the basics of many areas of physics, especially if you have a sound grounding in other areas. For example, I've never been much of a fan of probability but some of its applications are to do with quantum mechanics, which I do like. Or if you know the basics of gauge theory you can get into general relativity much faster. So why haven't you managed to pick up, just via osmosis on forums like this, something?
 
Your chances aren't good. It's literally a homework problem for people learning field theory 101 to work out the density of particles in accelerator beams and compute scattering cross sections.

It's extremely rare to get just 2 particles to collide head on, which is why billions of them are in each beam and why accelerators run for most of a decade. It's extremely rare to get 3 or more particles to interact. You're talking about 90 particles!!

Standard QFT methods account for this by the fact each interaction involves a coupling constant and in things like QED this is small so more itneractions are less likely. Photons don't interact with one another directly but they can do so, according to QED, if they convert into electrons and positrons (or any matter/antimatter pairing), which then exchange photons and convert back into photons themselves. This involves lots of interactions, making it less likely (the simplest contribution is the box diagram in QED). It's so rare the LHC is the first accelerator to be able to see the signal. The only other way to measure the effect is using petawatt lasers!

As has been said to you, you're having to rely on the argument "Since it's possible to come up with some other interpretation of the data it's reasonable to think the current interpretation is wrong.". No, you have to factor in how reasonable alternative explanations are. It's the "When you hear hoof steps think horses, not zebras". QFT may not be perfect but it's a fact it's made predictions which have later been tested and found to be accurate to parts per trillion. You're asking us to throw that out and all the machinery we have to understand other phenomena, based on the notion it could all be a massive coincidence, in every experiment by every group with every accelerator for the whole of particle physics history, all because you don't buy it.

Don't get me wrong, if someone handed me absolutely sound experimental evidence which showed relativity or QFT wrong and asked "Do you want to publish this" I'd cut off a finger to get my name on the author list! You'd be immortal in the domain of science. But it would need to be actual evidence, not "I've got my own interpretation" or "I don't like the mainstream".

You fail to provide that. You fail to show the level of competency in science I'd expect of students. Hell, it's not even a matter of thinking you couldn't pass an undergrad exam but rather you're not even getting the ethos of science. Conjecture and intuition have their place but not in the way you're applying them. And this whole "Oh we'll see!" attitude is laughable. You've admitted to spamming research groups with your work, just like Sylwester did (he emailed 1600 scientists!!), just like Farsight with his adverts in physics magazines, just like Magneto writing 'textbooks' on stuff he doesn't understand.

You've all been at it for years and none of you have advanced at all. In the time since your "A New Light in Physics" website went online some people have done entire degrees, masters, PhDs, published numerous papers and gotten recognition for their research! The people you try to deride move on with their work, you seem to be stuck in neutral. It's not hard to pick up the basics of many areas of physics, especially if you have a sound grounding in other areas. For example, I've never been much of a fan of probability but some of its applications are to do with quantum mechanics, which I do like. Or if you know the basics of gauge theory you can get into general relativity much faster. So why haven't you managed to pick up, just via osmosis on forums like this, something?
What can I say? This is politics. Politics of Science not actually Science.
May be you are a good politician for the mainstream.

You asked for experimental evidence, well, the real purpose of this thread was the claim for a direct verification of De Broglie law (which theoretically would have the Lorentz factor 1/root(1-v2/c2) present in it) at some relativistic speeds what hasn't been done or nothing have been specifically published about it yet who knows why. May be it was tried but "strange" things could have appeared and nothing could have been concluded. It's something missing in Physics. Davisson-Germer experiment accounted for low velocities electrons only (0.2% of c) where the classical formulas apply and were applied.
And I propose a little modification for the Davisson-Germer apparatus to overcome some possible problems I think could appear. Is just the addition of a velocity selector after the acceleration stage to determine me directly the velocity of the electrons and not deduce them from the voltage of the accelerating plates.
In the original experiment electrons were accelerated by just about 50 volts obtained velocities about 0.2% of c. It would have been very easy to accelerate them more to reach some higher velocities (say 10% or 20% of c) to verify the relativistic effects in the law.
More details about how my point of view for the proposed experiment can be found at:
The experiment at high velocities: http://www.geocities.ws/anewlightinphysics/sections/Section6-3_The_experiment_at_high_velocities.htm
The experiment as a proof:http://www.geocities.ws/anewlightinphysics/sections/Section6-4_The_experiment_as_a_proof.htm
My basic point is the possibility that unexpectedly the Lorentz's factor 1/root(1-v2/c2) could actually be present in the Electric and Magnetic Fields what could be the cause for "strange" results that could appear in the Davisson-Germer experiment but at some relativistic speeds. The experiment would reveal that among the verification of the De Broglie formula.

As I said it's something missing in Physics at least to just verify the De Broglie law in relativistic conditions. I'm looking for someone that could be interested in it.
The experiment is very feasible and it would be a strong test of Relativity Theory whatever the results would be.
What do you have to say about? Just not interested as przyk argumenting that people at CERN, LHC, etc would have already been detected if there were some problem with De Broglie law at relativistic velocities?

Not anyone else interested?
 
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What can I say? This is politics. Politics of Science not actually Science.
May be you are a good politician for the mainstream.
Politics (particularly American politics) is all too often based on who can make the flashiest presentation, who can spin the most BS, who has the nicest hair cut and the whitest smile and the perfect family. Much like law, it can come down to how well you argue, not how right you are. Yes, there's plenty of politics in science in the sense of how funding is obtained and handed out and who gets put forward for some jobs but ultimately it's all down to results. You can be the most charming person with tons of connections but if you can't do and write work people want to read and build upon then you're not going to manage to get far in the research community.

Your work fails to live up to your claims. You clutch at straws based on the fact nothing is ever absolutely known for certain. You ignore or are ignorant of experimental facts and current models. None of these things endear you to people like myself or przyk. We're the sort of people you're trying to convince, actual researchers who could, if we thought it was good enough, research things in your work. If you can't convince us in direct conversation then you're not going to get far with journals, who only have the write ups you've done, they can't have a back and fore with you like this forum allows us.

We're not holding you to an unfair standard, we're holding you to a standard we are held to. There's nothing wrong with being mistaken, if you can learn from it and move on. Hacks online all too often cannot accept any correction and thus they never move on. I've binned months of work after someone pointing out a mistake. I've spent weeks banging my head against the same problem and eventually moving on to something else. I've asked questions to professors which were (in hindsight) cringe worthy in their stupidity. Those are the times reasonable people learn greatly.

You asked for experimental evidence, well, the real purpose of this thread was the claim for a direct verification of De Broglie law (which theoretically would have the Lorentz factor 1/root(1-v2/c2) present in it) at some relativistic speeds what hasn't been done or nothing have been specifically published about it yet who knows why.
So you've checked the entire 100 years of publications have you? Really? I find that hard to believe, as you obviously aren't familiar enough with relativity and quantum mechanics to be able to read research level publications, never mind exhaust all of the literature looking for something.

Besides, the results of de Broglie are used all over quantum mechanics, when people rearrange formulae, so if it were wrong in a significant way experiments would disagree with prediction, unless you're claiming multiple errors would magically conspire to cancel one another out?

An example involving $$\gamma$$ is precisely the sort of thing we're talking about. Beam density and energy is frame dependence, since a Lorentz boost will length contract a packet of (lets say) electrons, upping the density and thus altering probabilities of particle collisions. But often you don't want to work in the frame of reference of a particular particle, you do it in the centre of mass frame for the colliding particles, which requires a Lorentz transform to get to. Thus the way in which physical processes alter under Lorentz transforms is explicitly a factor in the predictions of particle models. If the description were off by even 1 in a billion we'd know about it.

Likewise with de Broglie's work. Swapping momentum for frequency is standard practice in scattering calculations. Like I said, this is homework for students doing QFT 1! Thus every experiment testing QFT in an accelerator is implicitly testing all the assumptions/principles/formulae in the corresponding models, including de Broglie. If de Broglie were massively wrong it would cascade through to the things we do measure directly.

This is pretty basic logic so I don't see why you're struggling with it. If an experiment produced something different from prediction all possible reasonable explanations would be considered, the assumptions of the model broken down and reconsidered and then altered, tested, altered, tested, until something new and accurate is devised.

What do you have to say about? Just not interested as przyk argumenting that people at CERN, LHC, etc would have already been detected if there were some problem with De Broglie law at relativistic velocities?
And he's right. Saying "but strange things might have happened" is not enough of an argument. That reasoning could apply for EVERYTHING because absolute truth is unobtainable in science.
 
So you've checked the entire 100 years of publications have you? Really? I find that hard to believe, as you obviously aren't familiar enough with relativity and quantum mechanics to be able to read research level publications, never mind exhaust all of the literature looking for something.
Well I google the web for something about and found nothing at all, not any comment, what is , I think, some good evidence. But If I were wrong you yes could provide me now some reference about experimental tests on the relativistic effects in the De Broglie law isn't it?

“ Originally Posted by martillo
What can I say? This is politics. Politics of Science not actually Science.
May be you are a good politician for the mainstream. ”

Politics (particularly American politics) is all too often based on who can make the flashiest presentation, who can spin the most BS, who has the nicest hair cut and the whitest smile and the perfect family. Much like law, it can come down to how well you argue, not how right you are. Yes, there's plenty of politics in science in the sense of how funding is obtained and handed out and who gets put forward for some jobs but ultimately it's all down to results. You can be the most charming person with tons of connections but if you can't do and write work people want to read and build upon then you're not going to manage to get far in the research community.

Your work fails to live up to your claims. You clutch at straws based on the fact nothing is ever absolutely known for certain. You ignore or are ignorant of experimental facts and current models. None of these things endear you to people like myself or przyk. We're the sort of people you're trying to convince, actual researchers who could, if we thought it was good enough, research things in your work. If you can't convince us in direct conversation then you're not going to get far with journals, who only have the write ups you've done, they can't have a back and fore with you like this forum allows us.

We're not holding you to an unfair standard, we're holding you to a standard we are held to. There's nothing wrong with being mistaken, if you can learn from it and move on. Hacks online all too often cannot accept any correction and thus they never move on. I've binned months of work after someone pointing out a mistake. I've spent weeks banging my head against the same problem and eventually moving on to something else. I've asked questions to professors which were (in hindsight) cringe worthy in their stupidity. Those are the times reasonable people learn greatly.


“ Originally Posted by martillo
You asked for experimental evidence, well, the real purpose of this thread was the claim for a direct verification of De Broglie law (which theoretically would have the Lorentz factor 1/root(1-v2/c2) present in it) at some relativistic speeds what hasn't been done or nothing have been specifically published about it yet who knows why. ”

So you've checked the entire 100 years of publications have you? Really? I find that hard to believe, as you obviously aren't familiar enough with relativity and quantum mechanics to be able to read research level publications, never mind exhaust all of the literature looking for something.

Besides, the results of de Broglie are used all over quantum mechanics, when people rearrange formulae, so if it were wrong in a significant way experiments would disagree with prediction, unless you're claiming multiple errors would magically conspire to cancel one another out?

An example involving is precisely the sort of thing we're talking about. Beam density and energy is frame dependence, since a Lorentz boost will length contract a packet of (lets say) electrons, upping the density and thus altering probabilities of particle collisions. But often you don't want to work in the frame of reference of a particular particle, you do it in the centre of mass frame for the colliding particles, which requires a Lorentz transform to get to. Thus the way in which physical processes alter under Lorentz transforms is explicitly a factor in the predictions of particle models. If the description were off by even 1 in a billion we'd know about it.

Likewise with de Broglie's work. Swapping momentum for frequency is standard practice in scattering calculations. Like I said, this is homework for students doing QFT 1! Thus every experiment testing QFT in an accelerator is implicitly testing all the assumptions/principles/formulae in the corresponding models, including de Broglie. If de Broglie were massively wrong it would cascade through to the things we do measure directly.

This is pretty basic logic so I don't see why you're struggling with it. If an experiment produced something different from prediction all possible reasonable explanations would be considered, the assumptions of the model broken down and reconsidered and then altered, tested, altered, tested, until something new and accurate is devised.
“ Originally Posted by martillo
What do you have to say about? Just not interested as przyk argumenting that people at CERN, LHC, etc would have already been detected if there were some problem with De Broglie law at relativistic velocities? ”

And he's right. Saying "but strange things might have happened" is not enough of an argument. That reasoning could apply for EVERYTHING because absolute truth is unobtainable in science.
Exactly the same argumentation as przyk. I didn't expect something different.

I will wait for the references I asked to you.
 
Exactly the same argumentation as przyk. I didn't expect something different.
Of course. This is exactly what I told you: every real scientist will have the same problem not just with the ideas on your website, but with your general attitude. As I said earlier, you just don't understand science.
 
Martillo, do you think if you just ignore what people say then it'll stop being accurate? Do you think if you ignore the fact de Broglie's models have been incorporated into quantum field theory and thus every test of QFT is an implicit test of de Broglie then magically your whining will become valid?

The reason przyk and I agree is that our argument is sound. The fact multiple people say the same thing doesn't make it less valid.

You're being deliberately dishonest. You obviously haven't checked the literature yourself because you are too ignorant of physics and maths to understand the literature. Now you're demanding we jump through hoops for you because you're unable and unwilling to do the leg work yourself, as well as ignoring the fact we don't need to do anything as tests of QFT test de Broglie.

I would hazard a guess you're trying to convince yourself you've got a case. You're ignoring all arguments against you and demanding a specific thing so when someone provides you with some other argument why you're wrong you can convince yourself it is okay to ignore it.

This is why no one takes hacks like you seriously. You're demonstrably dishonest and wilfully ignorant. Sorry but the fact you are unable or unwilling to understand physics isn't my problem (or anyone else's). I (and I'm sure przyk too) have my own research to do, my own literature reviews to engage in. The onus is on you to justify your claim it isn't in the literature and to justify why you can ignore all the experiments which implicitly test de Broglie's work. You have utterly failed to do that. This is why you haven't accomplished anything in the last 5~10 years, you aren't willing to put in the effort.
 
Well I google the web for something about and found nothing at all, not any comment, what is , I think, some good evidence. But If I were wrong you yes could provide me now some reference about experimental tests on the relativistic effects in the De Broglie law isn't it?

That's just stupid. Not ignorant, for an ignorant person would ask, but stupid to assert that minor historical events never happened in the face of a history that only makes sense if those event actually happened. It's akin to bashing down the door of a 14th story hotel room and demanding that the hotel guests proof that there is no elephant in their room. But you don't even apologize for staving in the door.

Obviously* most such reports of experiments would be done circa 1930-1950 and not much from then is on the web. You need to go to a physics library of a university with a long history of being good at physics if you want to find these. Something like "An introduction to high-voltage electron microscopy" by Makin and Sharp (1968) http://www.springerlink.com/content/r62572704v44066g/

* I guess it's only obvious to someone with a history of high-voltage electrical circuits and particle accelerators.

First of all, relativistic length contraction of de Broglie wavelength is built into equipment like colliders and commercial equipment like electron microscopes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_diffraction#Wavelength_of_electrons

$$\Delta E = e U = E - E_0 \\ E_0 = m_0 c^2 \\ p_{\tiny \textrm{relativity}} = \frac{1}{c}\, sqrt{E^2 - E_0^2} = \frac{1}{c}\, \sqrt{E - E_0} \sqrt{E + E_0} = \frac{1}{c}\, \sqrt{eU} \sqrt{2 m_0 c^2 + eU} = \frac{1}{c}\, \sqrt{2 m_0 c^2 e U + e^2 U^2} = \frac{1}{c}\, \sqrt{2 m_0 c^2 e U } \sqrt{1 + \frac{e U}{2 m_0 c^2}} = \sqrt{2 m_0 e U } \sqrt{1 + \frac{e U}{2 m_0 c^2}} \\ \lambda = \frac{h}{\sqrt{2m_0eU}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+\frac{eU}{2m_0c^2}}} = \frac{h}{p_{\tiny \textrm{relativity}}}$$

Below 60 kV, this formula is difficult to distinguish from the non-relativistic approximation. Above 212 kV, the electron has a shorter wavelength than the Compton wavelength. The success of deep elastic scattering depends on such very short wavelength electrons.

Second of all, de Broglie himself, in his Nobel lecture both affirms his expectation that it is relativistic momentum that is to be used in the relationship. In the same lecture, he talks about the experimental verification of electron interference from crystals.
http://eml.masc.udel.edu/broglie-lecture.pdf

Thirdly, even in the late 1920's articles by George P. Thomson, wavelength relates to relativistic momentum, but relativistic effects were on the order of the precision of these experiments.
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/117/778/600.full.pdf (some calibration errors)
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/119/783/651.full.pdf
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/125/797/352.full.pdf

So by 1938 a precision experimental repeat did allow confirmation of relativistic de Broglie relationship. http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v54/i12/p1085_1
 
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rpenner:

In my way out you come with some real experimental data...
Good...

First of all, relativistic length contraction of de Broglie wavelength is built into equipment like colliders and commercial equipment like electron microscopes.
This doen't mean they verify De Broglie formula, just that they use it, for example just to have some value for lattices. Also I guess commercial equipments do not work with electrons at relativistic velocities.

Second of all, de Broglie himself, in his Nobel lecture both affirms his expectation that it is relativistic momentum that is to be used in the relationship.
Of course to be compatible with Realtivity Theory.

Thirdly, even in the late 1920's articles by George P. Thomson, wavelength relates to relativistic momentum, but relativistic effects were on the order of the precision of these experiments.
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.o...8/600.full.pdf (some calibration errors)
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.o...3/651.full.pdf
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.o...7/352.full.pdf
Really good references but you stated about your De Broglie wavelength contration formula that: "Below 60 kV, this formula is difficult to distinguish from the non-relativistic approximation" and in my first look on them I could see that the voltages used in those experiments were all below that.
Even your third reference talks of voltages quite below those 60 Kvolts.

So none of the experiments you presented actually verify De Broglie in relativistic conditions as I'm asking.
This confirm my asseveration that De Broglie formula hasn't been really tested experimentally in relativistic conditions yet.
I still have chance...:)

What I have found very important is your statement: "Below 60 kV, this formula is difficult to distinguish from the non-relativistic approximation".
I thought it was much easier to make electrons travel at relativistic velocities but it has sense for me. May be in the experiment I claim to be done an acceleration stage made by just parallel plates would not be enough. May be another way to accelerate the electrons would be needed.
I wonder now if the experiment I propose actually could have to be done at large particles' accelerators like CERN, LHC, etc only.
I thought that about 20% of c would be enough...
That's important.

Thanks for your post. At the end a really one related to the main topic of the thread and with very useful data really related to the topic.
Thanks.
 
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Obviously* most such reports of experiments would be done circa 1930-1950 and not much from then is on the web. You need to go to a physics library of a university with a long history of being good at physics if you want to find [most such reports of experiments, circa 1930-1950].

...

So by 1938 a precision experimental repeat did allow confirmation of relativistic de Broglie relationship. http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v54/i12/p1085_1
Any reply you make without getting a copy of the 1938 paper is without merit.
That you would reply without mentioning this paper shows that you are victim of confirmation bias.

The whole point of doing science is to have an empirical basis for our claims about the universe. By ignoring evidence you do nothing to strengthen your claims.
This doen't mean they verify De Broglie formula, just that they use it, for example just to have some value for lattices. Also I guess commercial equipments do not work with electrons at relativistic velocities.
Commercial equipment works from 0.2 keV to 30 keV for a SEM, 80 keV to 300 keV for a TEM, depending on application. Nearly all of commercial equipment covers a wide range so that the same instrument can do multiple jobs. Specifically, the TEMs allow you to analysis the same crystal with the machine at several voltages and work out that wavelength-momentum relationship is wholly relativistic.

Really good references but you stated about your De Broglie wavelength contration formula that: "Below 60 kV, this formula is difficult to distinguish from the non-relativistic approximation" and in my first look on them I could see that the voltages used in those experiments were all below that.
Even your third reference talks of voltages quite below those 60 Kvolts.
I said difficult, not impossible. And you are specifically ignoring the last link and deep elastic scattering.

I thought that about 20% of c would be enough...
How did you come up with that number? It doesn't appear to be a relevant figure.

v = 20% of c, E = 521.5 keV, U = 10.537 kV, p = 104.307 keV/c
U = 60 kV, p = 255 keV/c, E = 571 keV, v = 0.45% of c
U = 80 kV, p = 297 keV/c, E = 591 keV, v = 0.50% of c
U = 100 kV, p = 335 keV/c, E = 611 keV, v = 0.55% of c
U = 200 kV, p = 494 keV/c, E = 711 keV, v = 0.70% of c
U = 212 kV, p = 511 keV/c, E = 723 keV, v = 0.71% of c
U = 300 kV, p = 630 keV/c, E = 811 keV, v = 0.78% of c
 
Any reply you make without getting a copy of the 1938 paper is without merit.
That you would reply without mentioning this paper shows that you are victim of confirmation bias.
I don't think so. Already in the abstract of the paper it is said just at the start: "The validity of de Broglie's equation is checked experimentally for electrons of 24 to 64 electron-kilovolts energy."
I don't need more.

Commercial equipment works from 0.2 keV to 30 keV for a SEM, 80 keV to 300 keV for a TEM, depending on application. Nearly all of commercial equipment covers a wide range so that the same instrument can do multiple jobs. Specifically, the TEMs allow you to analysis the same crystal with the machine at several voltages and work out that wavelength-momentum relationship is wholly relativistic.
Later in your post you present:
U = 60 kV, p = 255 keV/c, E = 571 keV, v = 0.45% of c
U = 80 kV, p = 297 keV/c, E = 591 keV, v = 0.50% of c
U = 100 kV, p = 335 keV/c, E = 611 keV, v = 0.55% of c
U = 200 kV, p = 494 keV/c, E = 711 keV, v = 0.70% of c
U = 212 kV, p = 511 keV/c, E = 723 keV, v = 0.71% of c
U = 300 kV, p = 630 keV/c, E = 811 keV, v = 0.78% of c
All velocities below1% of c. I don't consider that really relativistic.
So none of the equipment you listed works with relativistic electrons as I argued.

You contradict yourself.

I still have chance...:)
 
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All velocities below1% of c. I don't consider that really relativistic.
rpenner misreported the velocities. The correct values are the ones he gave but without the % symbol. So 60 keV electrons move at just under 0.45c or 45% of the speed of light.
 
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