Turn the other cheek

[Nasor]

It's an word picture of a forgiving attitude Wisdom Seeker, remember, theft is a transgression in the eyes of the Lord, as is striking someone for no good reason.

What's your reason for believing this? The fact that it makes your life easier? I didn’t know that you could get out of following Jesus’s explicit commands by calling them “word pictures”.

Of course theft and assault are transgressions in the eyes of the lord, but that doesn't change the fact that the Bible very clearly commands Christians to
1) Allow people to assault them
2) Not object when people steal from them

According to your reincarnation ideology, Wisdom Seeker, criminals should be allowed to run amok because their karma will catch up to them for "their next incarnation" as a toad or a goat or whatever.

And according to your own holy book, criminals should be allowed to run free because Christians aren't supposed to physically oppose people who wrong them. What’s your point?

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Why did at least one of Jesus' disciples bear a sword?

Christians are to influence government, to be the salt, and all people know that there are some bad eggs who must be dealt with, and Jesus never said abolish the pursuit of criminals, so you're trying to equate being a Christian with being a total doormat. Jesus was no doormat, until He allowed them to get Him, remember the number he did on the money changers in the Temple?

 

[spidergoat]

That wasn't the government, that was the temple. The whole incident seems pretty mild, like a hippy sit-in.

In the end, he let the Romans kill him. I could imagine no greater example of pacifism.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Jesus said to the Pharisees "your father is Satan," so what's up with that?

Ego = Satan

So we just let murderers carrying on murdering?

To be afraid of murderers is to be afraid of death. And to be afraid of death, is not only useless, but is your main obstacle to really live.

You can kill a body, but you cannot kill the soul. The murderers will pay for what they have done, when you interfere with this, when you send a killer to jail, then you are causing your very own karma.

 

[Oli]

To be afraid of murderers is to be afraid of death. And to be afraid of death, is not only useless, but is your main obstacle to really live.

Specious unsubstantiated crap. And even if it were true you're advocating letting those who want to go around killing whenever they want to.

You can kill a body, but you cannot kill the soul. The murderers will pay for what they have done, when you interfere with this, when you send a killer to jail, then you are causing your very own karma.

Providing, of course, you actually believe in souls and believe in karma. Neither of which are proven or even demonstrated to exist.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Why did at least one of Jesus' disciples bear a sword?

Christians are to influence government, to be the salt, and all people know that there are some bad eggs who must be dealt with, and Jesus never said abolish the pursuit of criminals, so you're trying to equate being a Christian with being a total doormat. Jesus was no doormat, until He allowed them to get Him, remember the number he did on the money changers in the Temple?

It may have happened that some Jesus disciples bear a sword, a sword is usefull for many things, but I have never heard of an anecdote of Jesus judging or killing others. Judging others is not in Jesus, nor Buddha, nor any other enlightened person in history.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

The Temple was allowed under the Roman occupation, in other words, it was part of their apparatus to keep the Jews pacified, and Jesus went in there and overturned all the tables, and ran the money changers out of the Temple, I call that pretty much "in your face."

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Specious unsubstantiated crap. And even if it were true you're advocating letting those who want to go around killing whenever they want to.

Providing, of course, you actually believe in souls and believe in karma. Neither of which are proven or even demonstrated to exist.

I find the most proof of reincarnation on animal instinct. Humans are not the only ones with a soul, all living creatures have a soul.
How does a bird knows the path to follow over hundreds of miles to arrive at the very same spot his ancestors did?
How do monkeys know how to use a stick in order to pull the ants out of a whole? It is a scientific fact, that these things are not learned in this life.

Every time an animal does something that he did not learned in this life, scientist shout "instinct". And this has become so common to us, we don´t even think about it. It is a basic part of evolution.

It has everything to do with reincarnation, stuff learned in previous lifes.

You cannot prove Karma as much as you cannot prove a mathematical theorem.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

The Temple was allowed under the Roman occupation, in other words, it was part of their apparatus to keep the Jews pacified, and Jesus went in there and overturned all the tables, and ran the money changers out of the Temple, I call that pretty much "in your face."

Hehe, Yeah, me too. But Jesus did not harm anyone. I bet he was frustrated in seing how people look at religion. Jesus was after all, a human like us, victim of emotions sometimes.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

It may have happened that some Jesus disciples bear a sword, a sword is usefull for many things, but I have never heard of an anecdote of Jesus judging or killing others. Judging others is not in Jesus, nor Buddha, nor any other enlightened person in history.

*************
M*W: Bearing a sword in those days was no more threatening than men (or women) carrying a pocket knife today. I've even been known to carry a small knife in my purse... not necessarily for self-protection but for utility purposes.

In those days, there were greater physical dangers from wild animals, scaling fish, cutting bushes, killing small animals for food, etc.

The problem came from rebels who used them for wrong deeds. Jesus was associated with the rebels according to the myth.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

It may have happened that some Jesus disciples bear a sword, a sword is usefull for many things, but I have never heard of an anecdote of Jesus judging or killing others. Judging others is not in Jesus, nor Buddha, nor any other enlightened person in history.

*************
M*W: People help me out here, but wasn't it written that Jesus killed a young boy?

 

[Nutter]

It may have happened that some Jesus disciples bear a sword, a sword is usefull for many things, but I have never heard of an anecdote of Jesus judging or killing others. Judging others is not in Jesus, nor Buddha, nor any other enlightened person in history.

How many times have you heard someone whine, "Judge not, that ye be not judged?" This verse of Scripture from Matthew 7:1 is often quoted out of context by people who are terrified at the idea of someone preaching against sin or pointing out any form of error in anyone, especially in themselves. CLICK HERE FOR MORE

 

[Oli]

Humans are not the only ones with a soul, all living creatures have a soul.

Speculation.

How does a bird knows the path to follow over hundreds of miles to arrive at the very same spot his ancestors did?
How do monkeys know how to use a stick in order to pull the ants out of a whole? It is a scientific fact, that these things are not learned in this life.

Which does not prove souls or reincarnation. How did the first one learn?

Every time an animal does something that he did not learned in this life, scientist shout "instinct". And this has become so common to us, we don´t even think about it. It is a basic part of evolution.

Evolution is not reincarnation or proof of the soul.

It has everything to do with reincarnation, stuff learned in previous lifes.

It has nothing to do with reincarnation.

You cannot prove Karma as much as you cannot prove a mathematical theorem.

A mathematical theorem is proven. Mathematicians spend all their time proving them. It's what mathematicians do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_proof

 

[Medicine*Woman]

But He won't be a pacifist when He returns, the Lamb of God the first time, and the Lion of Judah the second.

*************
M*W: Glad you brought this up. Astro-theologically speaking, the 'lamb of god' is a reference to the Sign of Aries (Spring), and the 'lion of Judah' is a reference to the Sign of Leo.

If Abraham lived during the time of Aries (the ram), and Moses lived during the time of Taurus (the bull), and the duration of a sign is about 2,150 years... well you can do the math. Wasn't David called 'the lion of Judah' as in the Sign of Leo?

 

[Nasor]

Why did at least one of Jesus' disciples bear a sword?

And as soon as he took it out Jesus scolded him and told him to put it away. Jesus explicitly states that Christians aren’t supposed to resist or do violence multiple times in the NT. Do you really think it’s reasonable to infer something that directly contradict the commands of Jesus from the fact that one of Jesus’s followers had a sword? Especially when Jesus scolds him and tells him to put it away as soon as he draws it? You’ve got to be kidding me!

Christians are to influence government, to be the salt, and all people know that there are some bad eggs who must be dealt with, and Jesus never said abolish the pursuit of criminals, so you're trying to equate being a Christian with being a total doormat.

No, I'm not "trying to equate" anything. Jesus says that Christians are supposed to be "total doormats" as you put it. In fact, he says it over and over again.

Here's the deal: You like most things about Christianity, but you don't like the idea of being a total door mat, so you're choosing to ignore the multiple instances in which Jesus commands his followers to be door mats. Hey, don't worry - you're not the first person to selectivly ignore the parts of the Bible that you don't feel like following. It's just like how rich christians ignore the parts of the NT where it says you shouldn't be rich, or how gay people ignore the parts of the NT where it says not to be homosexual.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Med Woman, it's 2,160 years, times 12 equals 25,920 years, the cycle of time of the Earth's slow wobble, they were able to measure and map the Earth with this knowledge, did you hear?

 

[Nutter]

It sure seems like Jesus is saying Christians should be pacifists, but apparently it's not been interpreted that way since Christians are not often pacifists. (Of course, some sects are; but most Christians are not and never have been as far as I know.)

How am I misunderstanding this text?

First of all, this is a passage from the Sermon on the Mount, which does not have a doctrinal application to a Christian. It is a "Kingdom of Heaven" passage which doctrinally applies to the Jews in the Millenium. Bible 101.

Secondly, the Quotation in Matthew 5:38-39 is from Deuteronomy 19:21 and the ruling is limited to a magistrate's court, which is clear from Deuteronomy 19:18.

To misaaply verse 39, then, to such issues as "no self defense," "attempted murder," and international war is to betray ignorance of the scriptures.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Med Woman, it's 2,160 years, times 12 equals 25,920 years, the cycle of time of the Earth's slow wobble, they were able to measure and map the Earth with this knowledge, did you hear?

**************
M*W: That's strange hearing it from you. Your figures explain the exact astrological cycle of 2,160 years per sign.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

**************
M*W: That's strange hearing it from you. Your figures explain the exact astrological cycle of 2,160 years per sign.

Cool, and we are in the Aquarius age right now. What may that mean?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Cool, and we are in the Aquarius age right now. What may that mean?

*************
M*W: That we are in the Age of Aquarius.