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Turn the other cheek
- Thread starter madanthonywayne
- Start date
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
To be perfectly honest, I don´t know, but if I see someone harming an innocent person, I could care less about my own karma, and help the innocent. I don´t think this can be interpreted as bad karma, to help an innocent.
Me neither. (appreciate the honesty, by the way)
But yes, the person being hit is paying for his own karma, I do believe this, and if one helps the person, you become a part of the person´s karma, because he must have done something good before, for something good to happen to her/him.
If you don't know this directly - as you have admitted above - rather than accepting it as dogma, you might want to consider the consequences of this belief more deeply. As an extreme example it would mean that Africans who were made slaves were all slave owners in former lives or women who are raped were rapists (or somehow violent) in former lives.
If you are wrong to believe the authorities who have said this, you are perpetuating a massive guilt trip aimed at people who definitely do not need this added burden.
My experience (with past life memories) is that you are wrong, that the patterns do not undergo, certainly not as a rule, this kind of flip flop pattern.
"Turn the other cheek" is referring to the ideal response to insults and slurs which Christians receive because of their faith, Christians are not instructed to be pacifists though, just patient, we are certainly allowed to defend ourselves when faced those who mean us physical harm.
How do you figure? The Bible very explicitly says otherwise.
Luke 6:27:
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
Jesus says that if someone strikes you, you aren't supposed to do anything other than offer him the chance to strike you again. If someone takes what is yours, you aren't even allowed to ask for it back! It's also very clear that Jesus was talking about being physically struck, not simply being insulted.
This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that virtually no Christians actually try to follow the Bible.
How do you figure? The Bible very explicitly says otherwise.
Luke 6:27:
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
Jesus says that if someone strikes you, you aren't supposed to do anything other than offer him the chance to strike you again. If someone takes what is yours, you aren't even allowed to ask for it back! It's also very clear that Jesus was talking about being physically struck, not simply being insulted.
This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that virtually no Christians actually try to follow the Bible.
Well said Nasor, straight to the point.
Me neither. (appreciate the honesty, by the way)
If you don't know this directly - as you have admitted above - rather than accepting it as dogma, you might want to consider the consequences of this belief more deeply. As an extreme example it would mean that Africans who were made slaves were all slave owners in former lives or women who are raped were rapists (or somehow violent) in former lives.
If you are wrong to believe the authorities who have said this, you are perpetuating a massive guilt trip aimed at people who definitely do not need this added burden.
My experience (with past life memories) is that you are wrong, that the patterns do not undergo, certainly not as a rule, this kind of flip flop pattern.
Hehe, I will always tell you what I believe, there is no reason for lying, but I can also contradict myself sometimes, and that is good, that means I´m learning.
I seriously believe in dualism, everything has a counterpart, everything. And this is cause and effect; part of dualism. It cannot be proven, but for me is like a mathematical theorem.
For a person to be raped, does not mean that he was a rapist in past lifes, but that his actions together on his past lifes had enough energy to be cristalized as his rape in this life.
Guilt is not a part of the equation, that is some Catholic myth to keep you going to the church. We are not guilty, but we are responsable for what happens to us, if we don´t interfere with our Karma, we are paying for our karma, and not getting involved in the vicious cycle we currently are. Osho puts it glamorously:
"JUST ONE QUALITY of the Buddha has to be remembered. He consists only
of one quality: witnessing. This small word witnessing contains the whole of
spirituality. Witness that you are not the body. Witness that you are not
the mind. Witness that you are only a witness. As the witnessing deepens,
you start becoming drunk with the divine. That is what is called ecstasy."
Osho
The Hindustan Times, New Delhi, 16 April, 2000
It's an word picture of a forgiving attitude Wisdom Seeker, remember, theft is a transgression in the eyes of the Lord, as is striking someone for no good reason.
It's an word picture of a forgiving attitude Wisdom Seeker, remember, theft is a transgression in the eyes of the Lord, as is striking someone for no good reason.
And how do you know what is a transgression or not in the eyes of the Lord?
Jesus tought not to judge, all the masters have tought, not to judge. Because we are not fair judges, only God is a fair judge, and I believe he deals with this in the form of Karma and reincarnation.
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
(John 8,3)
I think most Christians would be the ones holding the rocks in their hands hoping for the word to strike the adultery down.
Written law means nothing!!!!
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
(Mathew 7,3)
Another clear example of how the true teachings of Jesus are not being followed by the mayority.
I bet most people even judge the dudes who were going to throw rocks at the cheating girl. And that contradicts the message of the whole scripture.
"It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the Judgment."
So, Wisdom Seeker, you're trying to associate Jesus with Hinduism, a tall order indeed.
So, Wisdom Seeker, you're trying to associate Jesus with Hinduism, a tall order indeed.
"It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the Judgment."
So, Wisdom Seeker, you're trying to associate Jesus with Hinduism, a tall order indeed.
Well mt friend, I believe Buddhists follow the teachings of Jesus way better than Christians, and they don´t even know it.
I even think Jesus was a practitioner of White Tantra, or Sexual Magic; as you want to call it.
According to your reincarnation ideology, Wisdom Seeker, criminals should be allowed to run amok because their karma will catch up to them for "their next incarnation" as a toad or a goat or whatever.
When did I ever say anything about "Sexual Magic?"
According to your reincarnation ideology, Wisdom Seeker, criminals should be allowed to run amok because their karma will catch up to them for "their next incarnation" as a toad or a goat or whatever.
I believe that also. To trust in the legal system, is only the reflection on the lack of trust in God.
In case you haven't noticed Wisdom Seeker, there's some mean hombres out there.
When did I ever say anything about "Sexual Magic?"
Tantra is a practice linked with Hinduism, you mentioned Hinduism.
Sexual magic is just an Occidental slang for some practices of Tantra.
Then why did you say to me "as you want to call it?"
In case you haven't noticed Wisdom Seeker, there's some mean hombres out there.
I know, but society has created them. They are not to blame. Society is.
I know we are far off this point in current society, but with awareness, jails will disappear.
Who commits a worst crime?:
- The person that smokes ganja.
- The judge, police men and lawyers that put that person in prison for suffering.
I believe is the second one.
And on what basis can you put a person in a prison like an animal? The legal system is not right, a person kills, but who is worst? The killer or the people that put that guy into the electric chair, and KILL him? They are all the same, is just hipocresy.
"But with awareness, jails will disappear," I think you lost me.
"But with awareness, jails will disappear," I think you lost me.
If you are truly aware, concient, then you would not judge others for what they do. Not even the worst hombres.
Because even the worst men have the seed of Christ in them, the seed of Buddha. Who are we to decide who will achieve this in this life?
Even Jesus kissed the feet of all his disciples, why? Because even if Jesus was enlightened, and they weren´t, all of them will achieve this same state of consciousness in this life or another, but they will.
So every sin, has divine forgiveness behind it, you will pay for every sin, but people can not take this into their hands, it is God´s work.
That is what I understand by the "Tree of Good and Evil". It was when men started saying what is good or what is evil. Men does not have that kind of judgement, or power over others, and when they started judging others, hell was unleashed in Earth.
Jesus said to the Pharisees "your father is Satan," so what's up with that?