To die as an atheist

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Bridge
The atheist DOES make a claim as to the afterlife and that is specifically that there is none.

That's fabrication.

Originally posted by Bridge

A true atheist believes you become as non-existant when you die as you were before you were born.

How can one answer a question that cannot be rationally answered. It is likely that you don't exist after you die, since the brain that housed your essence no longer exists, but it would be somewhat short sighted to proclaim that as an absolute truth.

Originally posted by Bridge

It is the agnostic's viewpoint that makes no specific claim.

Most athiests are agnostic. That's why you'll hear people quoting the labels (which I can't stand for some reason) strong and weak athiesm. I thought you'd been paying attention. Athiesm is a statement about the existence of god. Agnosticism is a statement about the nature of knowledge. See how your argument is out of context? Regardless, I make no specific claim regarding questions regarding stuff that I know stuff can't be claimed about.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Originally posted by Cris
It is a process that knows no justice or compassion and achieves cruelty beyond anything man can imagine.

Of course WE think its cruel, but you have to realise that the only reason WE think its cruel is because we are the simple organisms making it work. We fear death because that fear is what keeps an animal alive.
If you step outside of that you can see how wonderful nature is.

Unconsciousness is indeed a relief, but it is being conscious and in agony that you will not find so comfortable. Try it some time.

Don't get the wrong idea, I have experienced hardship and I have seen loved ones die.
It doesn't sway my view on the universe at all, I find it strange to assume it would.
Something so trivial in the big scheme of things
Pain and suffering must be a bitch for those who can't understand it. It saddens me greatly to see animals and children in pain or suffering, surely confusing and terrible their deaths must be.

But as adult humans, knowing as much as we do, I expect all of us to well, grow up a little and deal with it.

We can understand, its not that hard, we know the mechanics behind the pain we feel. We can find out why this pain is overwhelming us. We know the science behind cancer and why we have it. We take all this for granted, how extremely comforting this knowledge must be when compared to an animal suffering a similar fate.

For me it is worth all the hard times just to witness and wonder about the universe. I feel guilty because I am a human, "hard times" don't truely exist for us, because we have the knowledge to understand them.
Therefore whining about my alleged hard times and how much of a rip off death is seems to be an ungrateful view to have and could only be thought up by humans because we have been getting everything served to us on a silver platter for thousands of years.

I realise nature is cruel, very cruel, but only because I watch nature documentaries, seeing loved ones die is nothing in comparison.

Again, I can't feel sorry for humans because I don't feel sorry for myself. I know what possessing a human brain is like and I know that no matter what was happening to me it wouldn't be that bad because I have the comforting ability to realise what is happening to me. If I didn't know what the other options were, I would probably think being a human sucks, but I do so I'm extremely greatful.

And I'm greatful for death because life can't exist without it, the day we cure death is the day life stops altogether. By dieing you are letting someone else experience life, which is fair enough, you've had your turn. I would be happy to go now if I had too but nature hasn't taken me yet so I'll keep experiencing.

Being angry with death and pain is being angry with reality. Seems like a futile exercise to me, reality is all we got.

 

[wesmorris]

Nature is not cruel, it is indifferent.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Yes I agree,
Natures intentions are indifferent, the result may seem cruel to simple organisms such as ourselves, but we need to "hate" that part of reality if we are to survive long enough to breed.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Cris
life is the most precious commodity possible, without it everything else is meaningless.

Man, I did a couple of threads on that idea.. I can't believe you didn't chime in!

Here was one: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20511

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
But as adult humans, knowing as much as we do, I expect all of us to well, grow up a little and deal with it.

But obviously that's not possible at this time, I mean.. it isn't so.. so... *shrug*, so what else you got (idealistic bastard)?

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
We can understand, its not that hard, we know the mechanics behind the pain we feel. We can find out why this pain is overwhelming us. We know the science behind cancer and why we have it. We take all this for granted, how extremely comforting this knowledge must be when compared to an animal suffering a similar fate.

Hehe, ya think? Isn't that a little uh... well, presumptuous? What is "comforting" when your foot just got cut off? You usually make sense and stuff man, whassup? "Comfort" in that case is a kind hand on yours, kind words and earnest care... it's not the knowledge of impending doom you sick fuckard. LOL

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
For me it is worth all the hard times just to witness and wonder about the universe.

Yay!

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
I feel guilty because I am a human, "hard times" don't truely exist for us, because we have the knowledge to understand them.

Fucking drama queen. WTF? Hehe.. I'm just giving you hell Lou, you know you my man.. but sheez man, you're speaking from neurosis... think about it. It amazes me (but I think I maybe I used to do the same thing) that you can think "poor animals" and not realize "oh shit that's me" in the same thought! Hehe.. get with it man! You need some damned self esteem man, sheez. Okay. Lou, you are good and you are smart and some of us think you are cool. Does that help? LOL.. damn drama queen.

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
Therefore whining about my alleged hard times and how much of a rip off death is seems to be an ungrateful view to have and could only be thought up by humans because we have been getting everything served to us on a silver platter for thousands of years.

That's a good point, but whining in general is for pussies and comedians.. not that they're mutually exclusive. So, whining shouldn't be done and you should be happy that you get a life and you get to think about it rather than just be in it, you're human. Be thankfull, stop damning everyone because you feel guilty about being able to think. It's so.. well, it's so damn 16 if you dig.

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
I realise nature is cruel, very cruel, but only because I watch nature documentaries, seeing loved ones die is nothing in comparison.

Nature is indifferent, as I stated before. Cruelty is something that I'm pretty sure only higher minds (dophins, whales.. apes, chimps, dogs maybe a bit) comprehend. Lower minds simply "are", interesting though, how pure that "are" is (you likah da silly sentence no?) - in the sense that it is wholly what it is in the moment - clearly defined in whatever state it is, whereas higher minds are generally more convoluted.

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
Again, I can't feel sorry for humans because I don't feel sorry for myself. I know what possessing a human brain is like and I know that no matter what was happening to me it wouldn't be that bad because I have the comforting ability to realise what is happening to me. If I didn't know what the other options were, I would probably think being a human sucks, but I do so I'm extremely greatful.

Your shitty self image is fucking everyone else over in your mind. Hehe, selfish bastard. You're gonna stick with the low self esteem thing? It's pretty cool how it makes your thoughts bend to justify it.. or is it that your mind is just bent in a way that appears to be low self esteem? Shit if I know. I should prolly shut up anyway.

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
And I'm greatful for death because life can't exist without it, the day we cure death is the day life stops altogether.

That's a pretty good attitude I suppose eh? Nice thinking I guess... kind weird on the assertion that life without death isn't life, but if you must I suppose. I'd say it's still life, but different. Death must always be, but it should be voluntary and impermanent, if possible anyway.

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
By dieing you are letting someone else experience life, which is fair enough, you've had your turn.

That's a crock. What? Who gets my slot when I'm done with it? I want a contract damnit! Holy cow I'm sporting a transcendental bitness deal! Woo hoo! I want 400 years, what'll that cost me Mr. Taking my life-slot guy? Hehe.. sorry. Seemed funny I swear.

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
I would be happy to go now if I had too but nature hasn't taken me yet so I'll keep experiencing.

right on. you'll have to go soon enough like all of us... why rush it?

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
Being angry with death and pain is being angry with reality. Seems like a futile exercise to me, reality is all we got.

Damned straight brother.

(EDIT: I might add that obviously sometimes futility is all we find ourselves left with, though that's generally like all states of being... impermanent)

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

hahaha

I made that post "flammable" on purpose. I just knew it wouldn't sit right with anyone.
You know me, always trying to make humans out to be as ugly as possible, I guess it is kind of pointless to try and sell that image TO humans LOL
I'm just the embodiment of the counterpoint to the agreed notion that humans are great. Don't take it personally.
I need some aliens I can fuck with and give nightmares too

Still, I do think knowledge is comforting, perhaps I just have a confusion phobia, but it seems like confusion would magnify suffering.
I could be wrong.

PS: I found your response very enjoyable and amusing wes

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
PS: I found your response very enjoyable and amusing wes

I'm just so that way. Pimping bitch!

I was only assuming in that you were sincere...

I forget sometimes okay? sheez. :m: thanks for reminding me, cock.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
And I LOVE nature and all that is natural.
I guess I'm one of those who thinks the process that is the universe itself is "god" although I hate the word god.

Aha! You're a scientific pantheist! I used to call myself that until I got tired of explaining it to everyone.

I feel snug and comfortable while I'm in this universe and I always will, it doesn't matter whats going on, if I'm concious or not, irrelevent. Nothing can suck if you aren't concious, while I am concious everything is sweet and will be until my last millisecond of conciousness.

Ditto!

 

[Red Devil]

[34:17] We thus requited them for their disbelief. Do we not requite only the disbelievers? - Quran

As an Athiest, I do actually believe that there must be an afterlife. But it is not "heaven" nor is it "hell" - lets face it, life on this planet is hell enough for any eternity! There really would be no point to our existence if there was nothing but "blackness" after our bodies fail us. I think that there are several "planes of existence" and this is the lowest - humanity. The so called supreme being is not a god as such but someone who has attained possibly "level 1" in the astral plane. And there are probably a damn site more than one. How you enact your life here determines your place on the seven levels of astral plane and I also believe that reincarnation is a possibility. Naturally I cannot prove any of this - yet; but neither can the Theists prove their side of the arguement either..........

 

[atheroy]

i have to say that part of the reason i am an atheist is because i cannot stand the idea of living eternally. heaven holds no sway over me as i can say that i have no want of such an existance. it would be more excrutiating than hell because bordem would be the punishment not phyiscal pain (by the way how can souls or spirits be physically hurt?). perhaps that is a bit of an exageration, but life to me is very precious- it would be debased if living here was just a tool to get to a better existance. sometimes i have trouble with life having no ultimate purpose for me (although i would love to affect the world positively some way) but all i have to think about is the greatness that lies in the future- travel (to get to meet people from other countries and cultures), love, a wife, two or three children, a successful business that allows me to affects others lives positively as well. that to me is great- that is my purpose, if not expanding my mind is a part of that. in all honesty, who can glean any more joy than that of teaching your own future son (hopefully ) how to throw a ball, or to ride a bike, teach him to swim, teach him how to care and how to treat women right? that is the most satisfying to think about, especially a wife that i will treat every day as a treat, as special, and always with love,
yours respectfully, aj

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by Abdiel
Nothing could possibly be worth doing for in the end wouldn't it all be useless anyway?

Of course things are worth doing. We put a much greater value on life than on death, whereas the opposite tends to be true for those of devout faith. Convenient that one's ultimate reward should be death, not much chance to protest, or tell everyone that you'd been tricked.

 

[Cris]

wes,

Man, I did a couple of threads on that idea.. I can't believe you didn't chime in!

Sorry. But where were you in the early 80s when I brought it up then?

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Originally posted by wesmorris
I'm just so that way. Pimping bitch!

I was only assuming in that you were sincere...

I forget sometimes okay? sheez thanks for reminding me, cock.

I didn't mean I found it amusing like I was laughing AT you.
I found your criticisms to be spot on, you caught me out.
I especially liked the "guy with my lifeslot" comment.
I was being sincere but I made embelishments to ensure a response.
What I mean by "death is what allows for life" is not that litterally when someone dies someone is born to take their place. But people can't just keep being born and not dying. Eventually this will kill everything. Even if we did have some "immortality serum" the world would end up being completely covered by "dogpiles" of selfish and stubborn human beings that simply refused to die. Future generations don't deserve to live in those conditions

Curing "death" is far from realistic and if we ever could it would be far from a sensible thing to do.
For what cause? To make todays soft and spoilt humans even happier? Oh yeah, thats REAL important
Jeez, we won't rest untill its absolutely impossible for anything to sympathise with us at all will we? While we're at it why don't we start up a "make bill gates richer" fund

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
Wow cris
Are we both atheists? I'm not sure if I'm an atheist anymore.
I'm looking forward to death. I don't kill myself now because I'm patient. I know it will come eventually, so why not live around the place laughing it up?

Dr Lou Natic, you are very very cute. You have something that theists try very hard to achieve, it's called inner peace....I wish to achieve my inner peace and not to be afraid of death just like you.

 

[Jenyar]

Funny... my inner peace has never been called "cute". It has been called unambitious, but that's because I'm not chasing after wind - or death, for that matter.

We suffer a million deaths throughout our lifetime, one more doesn't make a difference - it's just the last one.

 

[Flores]

Jenyar, you are the cutiest of all. Out of all the christians on this site, you are the most reasonable, that's for sure.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Cris
wes,

Sorry. But where were you in the early 80s when I brought it up then?

Uhm.. dude, there was no board for us to exchange groovy ideas upon in the 80's. There was only hair bands and zipper jackets.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
I didn't mean I found it amusing like I was laughing AT you.
I found your criticisms to be spot on, you caught me out.

You've surely see 'BASEketball' right? Pardon, but that's where the "cock" comment came from...

And hey man.. I've seen enough of your stuff that I'd never take offence... promise.

 

[SnakeLord]

I wont lie and say death isn't scary. I'm like; "There's so much to do and learn, i really need a long time living." Inevitably we all die regardless of what we want, but i see it like this:

Before you were born was it so bad? Did it require heavens, angels, harps or golden halos? Complete and utter nothingness is scary but we've all been there before, and managed just fine.

 

[Red Devil]

To be "afraid" of death is daft; death is inevitable but what does "scare" me is HOW I die. In my sleep is preferable.