To die as an atheist

[Abdiel]

After having been to the religion section of this site numerous times I have seen that the majority of posters are themselves atheist. Which makes one wonder, when you sit on your deathbed what shall you think? Perhaps, as one may think, it is an odd question but to die as an atheist would mean the Apocolypse.
What I'm trying to say is that if these atheists are right then that would have to mean that once we die nothing happens, the world has ended. It is the complete destruction of everything, for how could things go on through that person's eyes?
What I mean is what value is placed in being an atheist? Nothing could possibly be worth doing for in the end wouldn't it all be useless anyway? One's work couldn't possibly continue for the world itself would be collasped. How could the world go on if your dead and nothingness comes about, and an eternal nothingness all the same.
In the end it has come to me that if I am wrong about my personal religious beliefs and if these atheists are correct then nothin will have mattered, however if I am right in my personal beliefs and these atheists are indeed wrong then it will matter eternally, I suppose that is the point that I have wished to make and just to see how some will respond to my previous statments...

 

[Flores]

Abdiel,
Sometimes I think the prospect of an Atheist in the afterlife is better than a theist. At least, the Atheist doesn't claim to know where he goes, but all theists regardless have a preconcieved idea about the afteralife and judgement although that in reality noone knows what lies ahead. So maybe a theist who has such a clear preconcieved idea is more prone to disapointment when the unknown is revealed to him, while the Atheist adopted a more humble position of saying I don't know and I won't commit and still live his life to the potential.

 

[Siddhartha]

I don't know what I'll think on my deathbed. Though I won't suddenly think "Ooh, maybe I was wrong about God!"

 

[Flores]

Siddhartha
I agree......People usually ask for their family before they die to say last goodbyes. Some crazy ones compose symphonies like Mozarts, others struggle to finish whatever they started in life and others die in their sleep so they are not even aware of it....

I think Abdiel is thinking of the classic scenario of the angel of death coming to get us and we getting in our hearts that uneasy feeling that we did it all wrong and are going straight to hell....Again I say, no one knows what is in the unknown....all theories are mere speculations.

 

[Bridge]

Flores states:

At least, the Atheist doesn't claim to know where he goes, but all theists regardless have a preconcieved idea about the afteralife and judgement although that in reality noone knows what lies ahead.

The atheist DOES make a claim as to the afterlife and that is specifically that there is none. A true atheist believes you become as non-existant when you die as you were before you were born. It is the agnostic's viewpoint that makes no specific claim.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Bridge
The atheist DOES make a claim as to the afterlife and that is specifically that there is none.

And do us theists have a better claim than that, but mere speculation. I for one no nothing of the detail of afterlife, all I know is to try to live rightously, believe in one god and place trust in him including my life.....As far as what god intends to do with me, I have no clue and so does the Atheist.

 

[Siddhartha]

An atheist is someone who believes in no god. That is the only qualifying criteria. I make no claims about the afterlife.

 

[DefSkeptic]

Me and my good friend were talking this one night and we came to talk about this issue. He said that one day in his old age he wants to successfully self delude himself into believing that an afterlife awaits him, because its just so hard to realize that theres a great chance that we will not live on and everything we know and are will become nothing.

Maybe for some people this overwhelming desperation for more can make a person mold their perception of reality to fit what they want to be true, because otherwise their essence would be destroyed without the cushion that the idea of an afterlife brings them.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Originally posted by Abdiel
Which makes one wonder, when you sit on your deathbed what shall you think?

If I get the opportunity to sit on a deathbed (i.e., I don't die unexpectedly), I shall reflect upon my life, hopefully with the ones I love. I shall say goodbye to my friends and family and tell each of them what they mean to me. I shall wish them happiness and longevity. And I shall fall asleep for the last time.

What I mean is what value is placed in being an atheist?

The value of living in itself. And the value of accepting life for what it is and not what we want it to be.

Nothing could possibly be worth doing for in the end wouldn't it all be useless anyway?

That's a very narrow way of looking at life. After all, the actions you take in your life will have effects on other people's lives. It's best to make them good actions then. True, in 10 trillion years, nothing you do may have mattered in the grand scheme of the universe. But, objectively speaking, life has no meaning. People must find meaning in their own lives. Some find it within themselves and those they love. Some find it in having faith in a creator and serving this imaginary concept. Some fail to find any meaning and kill themselves. To me, the purpose of life is simply to live.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Originally posted by Flores
So maybe a theist who has such a clear preconcieved idea is more prone to disapointment when the unknown is revealed to him...

If there really is no afterlife, the theist won't be disappointed now, will he?

Originally posted by Bridge
The atheist DOES make a claim as to the afterlife and that is specifically that there is none. A true atheist believes you become as non-existant when you die as you were before you were born.

Incorrect in two ways. First, an atheist's disbelief is limited to the question of whether God or gods exist. Atheism itself has nothing to do with whether an afterlife exists (although many atheists do not believe an afterlife exists). Second, atheism does not involve a claim, but a belief (or disbelief). Just for the record, I do in fact believe that there is no afterlife that we can experience.

Originally posted by Flores
And do us theists have a better claim than that, but mere speculation. I for one no nothing of the detail of afterlife, all I know is to try to live rightously, believe in one god and place trust in him including my life.....As far as what god intends to do with me, I have no clue and so does the Atheist.

Man, do I ever wish there were more theists like you!

 

[MacM]

Abdiel,


I am Deist. I guess that is like straddling the fence except I lean much closer to aethis than any theist view. Deist hold that we are here therefore there was an inception, hence a creation.

The sticky come when you try to claim the creater was a inteligent creature, an all knowing, all seeing miricale worker.

Deist is a non-spiritual concept and truth shall be discovered by study via science, not reading the Bible or other folklore.

Organized religion in my view actually demeans any concept of God by being so ethnocentric and putting man at the top of their God's list.

A God that would create the magnificent universe and place insignifigant man somewhere in it. Create all manner of living creatures and only give man a soul. Not to mention to design male and female along with all appendages and urges and then dare them to fornicate. It is an absurdity. (In my opinion)

No we are mere inorganic compounds converted into evolving organic material over millions of years, just like all evidence shows us and we should believe.

The value of life is to enjoy and better the stake of future human kind and to explore that which we find ourselves a part of temporarily.

After that the bugs comes and gets you just as though you were a dog, cat, bird or pig, etc.

If we don't like the idea of death then perhaps we should work harder at learning how to defeat it.


God is only a word for creation. Better than the Bible and far more practical is:

0-------->(+n)+(-n) which mathmatically shows that "Nothingness" can be bifurcated into two opposite "Somethings" and conservation is maintained.

 

[Siddhartha]

I watched a relative die. Seeing it as practice for my own death. It's only Christians really who have this fear of death, the deathbed syndrome. Atheists are fine. I was watching her die thinking "It's the end of your life. So long."

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Originally posted by Siddhartha
It's only Christians really who have this fear of death, the deathbed syndrome. Atheists are fine.

I think that fear of death is natural for everyone. After all, those who had absolutely no fear of death (and were reckless as a result) would not have fared as well evolutionarily speaking. That said, it is better to accept death as a natural part of life, so you can channel the energy you would have spent in fear into something more useful.

 

[Cris]

What you really mean is to die as a materialist.

Atheism is concerned with the existence or non existence of a god or gods.

Dialectic materialism is concerned with the existence or non-existence of an afterlife.

Dualism is the belief that humans have a physical component and an immaterial component that can usually survive physical death.

A Buddhist for example is essentially an atheist who believes in an afterlife.

Strong atheism is a belief that a god (usually a specific god) does not exit.

Weak atheism is a disbelief in the existence of a god or gods; this is effectively the same as the common (although strictly incorrect) usage of the term agnosticism.

The strict interpretation of agnosticism is concerned with whether a god is knowable or not, from ‘gnostic’ (to know). In this sense one could be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. But this is too subtle for most people.

If I know I am on my deathbed I would still be furiously looking for an escape route. To accept death is to accept that one has lost the battle for life and I find that an unacceptable thought process.

For me as a materialist, life is the most precious commodity possible, without it everything else is meaningless.

 

[Cris]

Jade,

I agree except that I don't consider death as natural and will never accept it as such.

Death is the result of war, accident, murder, suicide, or a disease.

And aging is a disease that should be cured like all other diseases, as it is now being viewed by leading anti-aging scientists.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Wow cris
Are we both atheists? I'm not sure if I'm an atheist anymore.
I'm looking forward to death. I don't kill myself now because I'm patient. I know it will come eventually, so why not live around the place laughing it up?

I would be very angry if death was cured, even more angry than I would be if aids, sars and cancer were cured. Diseases are natural, accidents are natural, murder is natural and war is natural. And I LOVE nature and all that is natural.
I guess I'm one of those who thinks the process that is the universe itself is "god" although I hate the word god.

I'll be more confident and happy on my deathbed than any christian I've ever met.
I feel snug and comfortable while I'm in this universe and I always will, it doesn't matter whats going on, if I'm concious or not, irrelevent. Nothing can suck if you aren't concious, while I am concious everything is sweet and will be until my last millisecond of conciousness.

Its great being completely spiritually content at the age of 19. It might lead to an early death but I don't care.
I guess this might be the reason I find it difficult to sympathise with human beings. I assume they are like me so when they die I smile. When animals die I think they would be scared and confused so I feel sorry for them.
Wow, I've learned alot about myself during this post

 

[Abdiel]

I must say that the responses that I have been recieving on this subject matter are truley interesting. I must take some more time to consider each one but perhaps what I was confused about was the completeness that an atheist could have with life. Some have argued that the main point of life was to be living it. Not that I disagree with this statement it just has occurred to me that this life that I hold...it is improbable that it was coincedence as to our creation.
I have also a longing for some kind of reason or truth to being here. After the death of a "materialist" nothingness would take control, and a complete infinite nothingness. It also has occurred to me that we cannot possibly comprehend God since our minds are finite and God is infinite. So nothingness that arrives couldn't possibly be imagines, nor could eternal life (or death depending).
You must admit though that if God is just a fabrication of man, (for what comfort?) he is the most influencial fictional character in history much more powerful than you or I. Furthermore, if indeed God is fictional He would be man's greatest achievment...
(I shall return shortly to consider other points made by those who wish to devour this "food for thought")

 

[James R]

Abdiel:

<i>What I mean is what value is placed in being an atheist? Nothing could possibly be worth doing for in the end wouldn't it all be useless anyway?</i>

Do you really believe that everything you do in life is meaningful only if a God exists?

Doesn't it matter if you are fair, honest, good to other people and so on? What difference does the existence of God make? The moral worth of your life can be judged quite independently of any God.

 

[Cris]

Lou,

Wow cris
Are we both atheists? I'm not sure if I'm an atheist anymore.

Superb. I keep trying to remind theists that atheists come from all types of backgrounds and have a vast spectrum of different ideas that make it impossible to categorize all atheists together, apart from a disbelief in gods.

I'm looking forward to death.

Why do you want to die? Remember that when you die you cannot change your mind.

I know it will come eventually, so why not live around the place laughing it up?

Are you sure? At a round 1900 the average life expectancy was 47, and now it is around 75. Medical knowledge and technology is advancing at an exponential rate and anti-aging research is part of that. It seems inevitable that death by aging or disease will quite soon no longer be inevitable.

I would be very angry if death was cured, even more angry than I would be if aids, sars and cancer were cured.

I find that very curious, perhaps you need to experience some of these things before you decide. I had a brother who died of polio when he was seven, my sister died of liver cancer when she was 55, and my father had head injuries from WWII and eventually died at 92 with his final years in considerable pain and misery. I have seen and lived with death and suffering first hand – it is not something that is to be admired or desired.

Diseases are natural, accidents are natural, murder is natural and war is natural. And I LOVE nature and all that is natural.

Why? What is so special about nature? Nature is the result of an undirected, indiscriminant and largely random process. Tell me again when your eyesight is failing, you can barely hear, your joints are frozen with arthritis, you have lost control of your bowel and bladder, and those agonizing chest pains that terrify you each time is your heart warning you of impending death.

I guess I'm one of those who thinks the process that is the universe itself is "god" although I hate the word god.

It is a process that knows no justice or compassion and achieves cruelty beyond anything man can imagine.

I feel snug and comfortable while I'm in this universe and I always will, it doesn't matter whats going on, if I'm concious or not, irrelevent.

Unconsciousness is indeed a relief, but it is being conscious and in agony that you will not find so comfortable. Try it some time.

Its great being completely spiritually content at the age of 19.

Yes I understand. You are not yet alive.

I'm only 50 and I have so much more I want to do and another 50 years is definitely not going to be long enough.

 

[DefSkeptic]

Abdiel-

it is improbable that it was coincedence as to our creation.

I wouldnt say coincedence. We are a result of the natural occurance of fundamental laws that the universe abides by. Life evolves, and walla.....here we are a couple billion years later. Now if evolution wasnt in play, then i could maybe see your point with the coincedence point. If we were the result of single step selection then yes, we would have to be created since the chances for a spontaneous generation of such complex creatures is so incredibly small, but since we are a product of cumulative selection the pieces fall in place.

After the death of a "materialist" nothingness would take control, and a complete infinite nothingness.

Is nothing really that bad. Personally I had no complaints before my conception

You must admit though that if God is just a fabrication of man, (for what comfort?) he is the most influencial fictional character in history much more powerful than you or I.

Yep, who would have thought an invisible entity would pull so much weight.

if indeed God is fictional He would be man's greatest achievment...

This is where I beg to differ. I view it as a human shortcoming. A means for filling in the gaps that are left because we are so......human. I see the idea of God as a form of mental weakness. To label one's ignorance "God" and to go around trying to convince others of this utterly cartoonish concept, maybe in hopes of convincing themselves in the process. Sort of like power in numbers, "hey, if so many people believe in it, then it just possibly cant be wrong" The whole thing reaks of one big self-diluted mindfuck.