Time Travel is Science Fiction

[tashja]

Tashja: read my book says it all, doesn't it?

Well, you certainly convinced me to purchase a copy of ''A World Without Time'', so I don't see why not.

 

[paddoboy]

Thanks again tashja...Thorne's thoughts on time and the mainstream opinion that it aligns with GR and its equations is well know, still that will not stop farsight from lying about it.

 

[paddoboy]

They aren't mainstream scientists. They're celebrity quacks and wannabees on the Discovery Channel peddling woo to suckers and kids and pimping their latest book. The OP explains why time travel is science fiction, and always will be. And you still haven't addressed it.

Tashja: read my book says it all, doesn't it?

Thorne's views on time travel are well known.
And he certainly did not need to publish his own book, did he?

 

[tashja]

I have Prof. Thorne's book, and the chapter in question (Messaging the Past), is labeled with his red S-for speculation pyramid symbol throughout, with only one EG-for educated guess symbol. On page 269 he says:

Many researches have struggled, over the past twenty years, to prove or disprove Hawking's chronology conjecture. The bottom line today, I think, remains the same as in the early 1990s, when he and I were debating the issue: Only the laws of quantum gravity know for sure.

I think he's still undecided about time-travel.

 

[paddoboy]

I think he's still undecided about time-travel.

I probably agree. The point is though, that he and all reputable physicists do know that GR, do not forbid it, and its equations give possible theoretical solutions.

 

[Landau Roof]

Since I am in support of GR and Einsteins interpretation of time, there is no such thing as a past or future - so time travel in this sense is impossible, no one can go into the past nor into the future. There is only ''now'' and a succession of ''now's'' - so in this latter sense, we do travel in time, but it doesn't involve an evolution involving a past or future, it's a successive evolution of the present, the only time which ever exists.

Thank you. Certain parties and I have been saying the same all along from the start of this thread.

 

[Farsight]

Well, you certainly convinced me to purchase a copy of ''A World Without Time'', so I don't see why not.

Oooh, did I mention that some of it is hard-going philosophy?

I have Prof. Thorne's book, and the chapter in question (Messaging the Past), is labeled with his red S-for speculation pyramid symbol throughout, with only one EG-for educated guess symbol. On page 269 he says:

"Many researches have struggled, over the past twenty years, to prove or disprove Hawking's chronology conjecture. The bottom line today, I think, remains the same as in the early 1990s, when he and I were debating the issue: Only the laws of quantum gravity know for sure."

I think he's still undecided about time-travel.

I think he'd dug himself into a hole. Now he's coming out with the "nobody knows" ploy. Even though people have known about time is change since ancient Greece. Bah, Hawking's Chronology Protection Conjecture is useless erudite garbage for mugs and suckers. It's totally superfluous. You can't travel to the past because you don't even travel to the future. On Hawking's superfast train you enjoy no local motion, as per the stasis box or refrigerator. You "time travel to the future" by not moving whilst everything else does. So you aren't time travelling, any more than this little fella:

 

[Farsight]

By the by, has anybody seen Interstellar? I haven't, and from what I've heard, I just don't fancy it. It seems to be one of those movies where science fiction is presented as science fact. It isn't like Star Trek where the science is somewhat incidental. In Interstallar it's absolutely central to the story. Only it's bad science. Anyway, spoiler alert, see Scott Aaronson's blog where he raises some issues. Quantum data, LOL. Quantum woo more like. Because when you understand time, you understand the speed of light, then gravity, then black holes.

 

[Landau Roof]

By the by, has anybody seen Interstellar? I haven't, and from what I've heard, I just don't fancy it. It seems to be one of those movies where science fiction is presented as science fact. It isn't like Star Trek where the science is somewhat incidental. In Interstallar it's absolutely central to the story. Only it's bad science. Anyway, spoiler alert, see Scott Aaronson's blog where he raises some issues. Quantum data, LOL. Quantum woo more like. Because when you understand time, you understand the speed of light, then gravity, then black holes.

There's a whole thread on it. Has been for months. Click here.

 

[Farsight]

Thanks Landau. Ouch, I fancy it even less now. Shame. Like I was saying in the OP, I can enjoy a science fiction movie without getting uptight about the science being dodgy. But that's because it's a movie with a decent story and the time travel or whatever is a plot device. I mean, nobody worried about the time travel in Terminator. When the science is dodgy but totally central to the movie, meh, it really takes the edge off for me. Like, I just don't enjoy Doctor Who. It always ends up with some crisis wherein he's got ten seconds to save the world, and I'm there saying but he's got a time machine.

 

[PhysBang]

I think he'd dug himself into a hole. Now he's coming out with the "nobody knows" ploy. Even though people have known about time is change since ancient Greece.

So your response to the considered opinion of one of the greatest scientists in the field is to reference ancient Greece?

You constantly talk about evidence, yet you use only the craziest, wackiest things and lies.

 

[PhysBang]

Tashja: read my book says it all, doesn't it?

The only person here who has peddled a book is you, Farsight.

 

[Farsight]

So your response to the considered opinion of one of the greatest scientists in the field is to reference ancient Greece?

It isn't considered opinion. It's baloney. Look here at Kip Thorne's chapter on "Messaging the Past". Backward time travel is governed by the laws of quantum gravity. One location in our brane. Gravitational forces can carry messages into our brane's past. When falling into and through the tesseract. FFS. Have you ever heard such hogwash?

You constantly talk about evidence, yet you use only the craziest, wackiest things and lies.

Er, no. I'm not the one using the craziest wackiest things and lies. If I peddled trash like this on this forum, I'd be booted into pseudoscience so fast my feet wouldn't touch the sides. And you're defending it. Jesus H Christ. No wonder you prefer to remain anonymous.

 

[PhysBang]

It isn't considered opinion. It's baloney. Look here at Kip Thorne's chapter on "Messaging the Past". Backward time travel is governed by the laws of quantum gravity. One location in our brane. Gravitational forces can carry messages into our brane's past. When falling into and through the tesseract. FFS. Have you ever heard such hogwash?

Have you worked through the physics? You are even trying to give the impression that Thorne originated that position, when it is clear that he is presenting the work of someone else. That is again you being deceptive.

Look, we both know that you haven't worked through any of the relevant physics. The problem here is that you want to look like a big, important man, but in reality, you haven't done the necessary work to understand this stuff and you resort to insulting those who have done the work.

Er, no. I'm not the one using the craziest wackiest things and lies.

Again, your response to contemporary physics was to trot out the opinions of people from over 2000 years ago. Not smart.

If I peddled trash like this on this forum, I'd be booted into pseudoscience so fast my feet wouldn't touch the sides.

And you have been booted there.

And you're defending it. Jesus H Christ. No wonder you prefer to remain anonymous.

Since you have a history of both doxxing and threatening legal action against those who point out your deceptive practices and intellectual short-comings, of course I wouldn't reveal my identity to you.

You are a bad person.

 

[OnlyMe]

So we are writing off scientific theorists now...Another copout.
You can't write off the laws of physics and GR, nor the equations that give time travel solutions, no matter how hard you try.

Your idiotic analogies, continue to be just that...Idiotic!

Theorists are the dreamers of science. There would be little real progress or advancement without them and yet until their theories are taken up by those who can implement them, in some real physical way by either practical observation or engineering, they remain the stuff of dreams and imagination, we call theories.

 

[OnlyMe]

I have Prof. Thorne's book, and the chapter in question (Messaging the Past), is labeled with his red S-for speculation pyramid symbol throughout, with only one EG-for educated guess symbol. On page 269 he says:

I think he's still undecided about time-travel.

I think that last line you quoted,

Only the laws of quantum gravity know for sure.​

is telling, in that since there is not yet any successful model of quantum gravity... We do not yet know what those laws are!

 

[OnlyMe]

Oooh, did I mention that some of it is hard-going philosophy?

I think he'd dug himself into a hole. Now he's coming out with the "nobody knows" ploy. Even though people have known about time is change since ancient Greece. Bah, Hawking's Chronology Protection Conjecture is useless erudite garbage for mugs and suckers. It's totally superfluous. You can't travel to the past because you don't even travel to the future. On Hawking's superfast train you enjoy no local motion, as per the stasis box or refrigerator. You "time travel to the future" by not moving whilst everything else does. So you aren't time travelling, any more than this little fella:

This is a science thread Farsight, provide some credible reference to support your comments or take your own woo to the Fringe! And just so you get the point a half page picture of a frozen chicken is not a credible reference or proof, when you are responding to the opinions of the likes of Hawlking and Thorne. It is abusive of the discussion as a whole.

 

[OnlyMe]

By the by, has anybody seen Interstellar? I haven't, and from what I've heard, I just don't fancy it. It seems to be one of those movies where science fiction is presented as science fact. It isn't like Star Trek where the science is somewhat incidental. In Interstallar it's absolutely central to the story. Only it's bad science. Anyway, spoiler alert, see Scott Aaronson's blog where he raises some issues. Quantum data, LOL. Quantum woo more like. Because when you understand time, you understand the speed of light, then gravity, then black holes.

There's a whole thread on it. Has been for months. Click here.

Why did you even bring up a movie in this thread? Not a documentary or interview, a movie intended as entertainment, rather than education!

 

[OnlyMe]

It isn't considered opinion. It's baloney. Look here at Kip Thorne's chapter on "Messaging the Past". Backward time travel is governed by the laws of quantum gravity. One location in our brane. Gravitational forces can carry messages into our brane's past. When falling into and through the tesseract. FFS. Have you ever heard such hogwash?

View attachment 100

AGAIN FARSIGHT CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. The word brane in the quote you chose should have given you a hint that the comment was made in a purely theoretical context!

Many of the comments from practical and theoretical physicists are grounded in one or another theoretical context. Few say anything intended as an absolute statement or definition.

Er, no. I'm not the one using the craziest wackiest things and lies. If I peddled trash like this on this forum, I'd be booted into pseudoscience so fast my feet wouldn't touch the sides. And you're defending it. Jesus H Christ. No wonder you prefer to remain anonymous.

I wouldn't say all of what you post is pseudoscience, but it certainly qualifies as Alternative. You really don't have to wait to make the move!

 

[krash661]

I don't think you would find many applied scientists or engineers (as opposed to theorists) who would be in agreement that time travel was an engineering problem.

well you are wrong, like farsight, you are not in the trenches. have you ever been in any kind of lab, that's not your college virtual lab ?

they may as well have been talking about a time machine.

why would that be ?