Oh boy. Paddoboy, you need to google something: Michiu Kaku quack. Don't you get it yet? There's celebrity "physicists" out there pimping books and peddling woo because suckers like you lap it up. They're on the Discovery Channel and the internet spouting gee-whizz gollygosh garbage for starry-eyed kids. Capiche? Now go and read the OP, then have a cry about time travel being a stupid fantasy, then pull yourself together and maybe we can talk physics.
Time Travel is Science Fiction
- Thread starter Farsight
- Start date
did anyone mention Ronald mallet?
but any ways you cant prove anything for certain until the fundamental forces are officially unified last I heard the they may have found the higgs boson? what I think is going on in a Newtonian point of view that is deterministic is God is playing chess from a stand point where nothing moves only from the perspectives of the observer "us" things appear to be probable so God is in control of probability that sucks look like Heisenberg was right after all but if we had a full connection with God then we would be able the predict the future with 100 percent certainty but unfortunately that is not science this is just like insider trading
but any ways you cant prove anything for certain until the fundamental forces are officially unified last I heard the they may have found the higgs boson? what I think is going on in a Newtonian point of view that is deterministic is God is playing chess from a stand point where nothing moves only from the perspectives of the observer "us" things appear to be probable so God is in control of probability that sucks look like Heisenberg was right after all but if we had a full connection with God then we would be able the predict the future with 100 percent certainty but unfortunately that is not science this is just like insider trading
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As you know full well, for dramatic effect. He goes on to hammer his point home in the next few sentences. The full paragraph is this:
"Gödel, the union of Einstein and Kafka, had for the first time in human history proved, from the equations of relativity, that time travel was not a philosopher's fantasy but a scientific possibility. Yet again he had somehow contrived, from within the very heart of mathematics, to drop a bomb into the laps of philosophers. The fallout, however, from this mathematical bomb was even more perilous than that from the incompleteness theorem. Gödel was quick to point out that if we can visit the past, then it never really "passed." But a time that fails to pass is no time at all. Einstein saw at once that if Gödel was right, he had not merely domesticated time: he had killed it. Time, "that mysterious and seemingly self-contradictory being," as Gödel put it, "which, on the other hand, seems to form the basis of the world's and our own existence," turned out in the end to be the world's greatest illusion. In a word, if Einstein's relativity was real, time itself was merely ideal. The father of relativity was shocked. Though he praised Gödel for his great contributions to the theory of relativity, he was fully aware that time, that elusive prey, had once again slipped his net."
except the ones who actually work on such things knows by experience from actually being in the trenches it's you who " pimping books and peddling woo "
This statement is aboslute fiction. If it were based on any science, it would have to begin with a clear definition of time-dilation.
Again your response is myopic. What is the definition? And what gives you the right or authority to apply your unstated definition, if you even have one, to anyone else's comments.., without first gaining some consensus on the definition itself?
Where is the science? Seems like you moving toward reportable attacks now!
Better stick to something a little less personal.
Yep, I certainly capiche, I capiche that the half a dozen or so physicists that I have given links to are all qualified experts, I capiche that you are an anti science freak, unqualified and burdened with an inflated ego. I capiche that you are here because you have no where else where they will let you peddle your porn...Yep, I most certainly capiche!
You're like the cocky on the biscuit time....You just aint in it!
And never will be. No wonder so much of your delusional take on science ends up in the fringe sections.
Yep, again, I capiche!
Another link from....
http://www.umich.edu/~engtt415/science/
relevant extracts.....
Theory of Special Relativity, which was published in 1905. Travel into the future is intrinsically connected with the Clock Paradox, which Einstein enunciated in the following way:
"If we were to place a living organism in a box, one could arrange that the organism, after an arbitrarily lengthy flight, could be returned to its original spot in a scarcely altered condition, while corresponding organisms, which had remained in their original positions, had long since given way to new generations. So far as the moving organism was concerned the lengthy time of the journey was a mere instant, provided the motion took place with almost the speed of light."
"A Remark on the Relationship Between Relativity Theory and Idealistic Philosophy," which appeared in 1949, suggests that the passage of time is merely an illusion. Instead, G�del maintains that "the past, present and future of the universe are just different regions of a single vast space time. Time is part of space time, but space time is a higher reality existing outside of time." As Rucker remarks, G�del's intention was to "destroy the time-bound notion of the universe as a series of evanescent frames on some cosmic movie screen" by proposing a mathematical model of a new universe in which one could travel back in time Yet, as Paul Nahin points out, G�del's theory is incomplete, that is to say, from the point of general relativity incompatible with quantum mechanics, which casts doubt on the very idea of time travel into the past. However, an Einstein-Rosen bridge (as pictured below) might constitute a passage between our universe and a parallel one, and is likely to make travel into the past possible.
"When we are confronted by black holes, Einstein-Rosen bridges, and time dilation, we are being asked to deal with phenomena that are totally out of accord with the universe we understand -- or think we understand. We cannot visualize them - only accept them. Until someone improves upon or replaces Einstein's General theory of Relativity - and at present this seems highly improbable - there is no alternative. If rotating singularities exist, and there is increasing reason to accept that they do, then the possibility of time travel, including travel into the past, has to be accepted, however fantastic it may seem."
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http://www.umich.edu/~engtt415/science/
relevant extracts.....
Theory of Special Relativity, which was published in 1905. Travel into the future is intrinsically connected with the Clock Paradox, which Einstein enunciated in the following way:
"If we were to place a living organism in a box, one could arrange that the organism, after an arbitrarily lengthy flight, could be returned to its original spot in a scarcely altered condition, while corresponding organisms, which had remained in their original positions, had long since given way to new generations. So far as the moving organism was concerned the lengthy time of the journey was a mere instant, provided the motion took place with almost the speed of light."
"A Remark on the Relationship Between Relativity Theory and Idealistic Philosophy," which appeared in 1949, suggests that the passage of time is merely an illusion. Instead, G�del maintains that "the past, present and future of the universe are just different regions of a single vast space time. Time is part of space time, but space time is a higher reality existing outside of time." As Rucker remarks, G�del's intention was to "destroy the time-bound notion of the universe as a series of evanescent frames on some cosmic movie screen" by proposing a mathematical model of a new universe in which one could travel back in time Yet, as Paul Nahin points out, G�del's theory is incomplete, that is to say, from the point of general relativity incompatible with quantum mechanics, which casts doubt on the very idea of time travel into the past. However, an Einstein-Rosen bridge (as pictured below) might constitute a passage between our universe and a parallel one, and is likely to make travel into the past possible.
"When we are confronted by black holes, Einstein-Rosen bridges, and time dilation, we are being asked to deal with phenomena that are totally out of accord with the universe we understand -- or think we understand. We cannot visualize them - only accept them. Until someone improves upon or replaces Einstein's General theory of Relativity - and at present this seems highly improbable - there is no alternative. If rotating singularities exist, and there is increasing reason to accept that they do, then the possibility of time travel, including travel into the past, has to be accepted, however fantastic it may seem."
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you don't even understand it's referred to as a continuum. and for reasons.
From Farsight's source:
Having already rocked the mathematical world with is incompleteness theorem, Gödel now took aim at Einstein and relativity. Wasting no time, he announced in short order his discovery of new and unsuspected cosmological solutions to the field equations of general relativity, solutions in which time would undergo a shocking transformation. The mathematics, the physics and the philosophy of Gödel's results were all new. In the possible worlds governed by these new cosmological solutions, the so called rotating or Godel universes, it turned out that space-time structure is so greatly warped or curved by the distribution of matter that there exist timelike future directed paths by which a spaceship, if it travels fast enough - and Gödel worked out the precise speed and fuel requirements, omitting only the lunch menu - can penetrate into any region of the Past, present, or future.
Gödel, the union of Einstein and Kafka, had for the first time in human history proved, from the equations of relativity, that time travel was not a philosopher's fantasy but a scientific possibility.
...
Gödel was quick to point out that if we can revisit the past, then it never really "passed." But a time that fails to pass is no time at all. Einstein saw at once that if Gödel was right, he had not merely domesticated time: he had killed it.
So here we have, it seems, Farsight's source explicitly stating that Gödel's solutions seem to suggest that time travelling into the past or the future could be as simple as heading in the right direction at the right speed, and then, seemingly, going on to demolish Farsight's entire premise by stating that the implication is that the past exist as a tangible thing somewhere (which no longer requires us to move everything back to where it was), and that the implication of that is that if these solutions mirror reality then time, as we think of it, is essentially another direction in space.
Having already rocked the mathematical world with is incompleteness theorem, Gödel now took aim at Einstein and relativity. Wasting no time, he announced in short order his discovery of new and unsuspected cosmological solutions to the field equations of general relativity, solutions in which time would undergo a shocking transformation. The mathematics, the physics and the philosophy of Gödel's results were all new. In the possible worlds governed by these new cosmological solutions, the so called rotating or Godel universes, it turned out that space-time structure is so greatly warped or curved by the distribution of matter that there exist timelike future directed paths by which a spaceship, if it travels fast enough - and Gödel worked out the precise speed and fuel requirements, omitting only the lunch menu - can penetrate into any region of the Past, present, or future.
Gödel, the union of Einstein and Kafka, had for the first time in human history proved, from the equations of relativity, that time travel was not a philosopher's fantasy but a scientific possibility.
...
Gödel was quick to point out that if we can revisit the past, then it never really "passed." But a time that fails to pass is no time at all. Einstein saw at once that if Gödel was right, he had not merely domesticated time: he had killed it.
So here we have, it seems, Farsight's source explicitly stating that Gödel's solutions seem to suggest that time travelling into the past or the future could be as simple as heading in the right direction at the right speed, and then, seemingly, going on to demolish Farsight's entire premise by stating that the implication is that the past exist as a tangible thing somewhere (which no longer requires us to move everything back to where it was), and that the implication of that is that if these solutions mirror reality then time, as we think of it, is essentially another direction in space.
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Sure, the author points out that this also implies a kind of block universe, but just because you and Godel don't like the conclusion doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
You can't keep lying about what the science is just because you don't like it.
LaurieAG
Registered Senior Member
I don't think you would find many applied scientists or engineers (as opposed to theorists) who would be in agreement that time travel was an engineering problem.
When Dilbert said to the salesman "You have just sold the customer something that hasn't been invented yet" and the salesman replied "I can't help it if I'm a brilliant salesman and you are just a second rate engineer." they may as well have been talking about a time machine.
So we are writing off scientific theorists now...Another copout.
You can't write off the laws of physics and GR, nor the equations that give time travel solutions, no matter how hard you try.
Your idiotic analogies, continue to be just that...Idiotic!
And while they are literally coming out of the woodwork in a vain effort to deride and falsify the ultimate reality of time and the fact that time travel is not forbidden, our mainstream scientists, Cosmologists, GR theorists continue pushing on regardless.
Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
paddoboy, If it's 2014 now, and you time traveled for 2 years, did you come from 2016 or 2012? How can you tell the difference?
Er, Trippy, did you somehow miss the bit that said this?
"Einstein saw at once that if Gödel was right, he had not merely domesticated time: he had killed it."
They aren't mainstream scientists. They're celebrity quacks and wannabees on the Discovery Channel peddling woo to suckers and kids and pimping their latest book. The OP explains why time travel is science fiction, and always will be. And you still haven't addressed it.And while they are literally coming out of the woodwork in a vain effort to deride and falsify the ultimate reality of time and the fact that time travel is not forbidden, our mainstream scientists, Cosmologists, GR theorists continue pushing on regardless.
Tashja: read my book says it all, doesn't it?
Here's a paper on time by with references to him....
http://publish.uwo.ca/~jbell/Time.pdf
entitled....
Time and Causation in Gödel’s Universe.
By John L. Bell
In which he said.....
In 1949 the great logician Kurt Gödel constructed the first mathematical
models of the universe in which travel into the past is, in theory at least,
possible. Within the framework of Einstein’s general theory of relativity
Gödel produced cosmological solutions to Einstein’s field equations
which contain closed time-like curves, that is, curves in spacetime which,
despite being closed, still represent possible paths of bodies. An object
moving along such a path would travel back into its own past, to the very
moment at which it “began” the journey. More generally, Gödel showed
that, in his “universe”, for any two points P and Q on a body’s track
through spacetime (its world line), such that P temporally precedes Q,
there is a timelike curve linking P and Q on which Q temporally precedes
P. This means that, in principle at least, one could board a “time
machine” and travel to any point of the past.
Now in that short paragraph he absolutely shoots down your own thoughts on time travel, and which you highlighted in another provocatively mis-titled thread, as has become so obvious with those with pseudo views on science and the nature of reality.
"Time Travel is Science Fiction" by Farsight:
He does go on to say though that....
"Gödel inferred, in consonance (as he observes) with the views of
Parmenides, Kant and the modern idealists, that under these
circumstances there could be no such thing as an objective lapse of time,
that time or, more generally, change, is an illusion arising from our
special mode of perception" which does align with your own thoughts.
Irrespective he concludes......
"We conclude that, if time travel into the past is possible (and
feasible), and no restrictions are placed on the purposes to which such
travel is put, then the universe must branch. Accordingly we have three
possibilities:
1. Time travel is impossible.
2. Time travel is possible, with no “changing of the past”.
3. Time travel is possible, and the universe ramifies. "
So while proving time travel is possible, he concludes that time is not real, which I find breathtakingly illogical.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
That certainly refutes all that farsight has said about Godel and other misinterpretations and dishonesty.
http://publish.uwo.ca/~jbell/Time.pdf
entitled....
Time and Causation in Gödel’s Universe.
By John L. Bell
In which he said.....
In 1949 the great logician Kurt Gödel constructed the first mathematical
models of the universe in which travel into the past is, in theory at least,
possible. Within the framework of Einstein’s general theory of relativity
Gödel produced cosmological solutions to Einstein’s field equations
which contain closed time-like curves, that is, curves in spacetime which,
despite being closed, still represent possible paths of bodies. An object
moving along such a path would travel back into its own past, to the very
moment at which it “began” the journey. More generally, Gödel showed
that, in his “universe”, for any two points P and Q on a body’s track
through spacetime (its world line), such that P temporally precedes Q,
there is a timelike curve linking P and Q on which Q temporally precedes
P. This means that, in principle at least, one could board a “time
machine” and travel to any point of the past.
Now in that short paragraph he absolutely shoots down your own thoughts on time travel, and which you highlighted in another provocatively mis-titled thread, as has become so obvious with those with pseudo views on science and the nature of reality.
"Time Travel is Science Fiction" by Farsight:
He does go on to say though that....
"Gödel inferred, in consonance (as he observes) with the views of
Parmenides, Kant and the modern idealists, that under these
circumstances there could be no such thing as an objective lapse of time,
that time or, more generally, change, is an illusion arising from our
special mode of perception" which does align with your own thoughts.
Irrespective he concludes......
"We conclude that, if time travel into the past is possible (and
feasible), and no restrictions are placed on the purposes to which such
travel is put, then the universe must branch. Accordingly we have three
possibilities:
1. Time travel is impossible.
2. Time travel is possible, with no “changing of the past”.
3. Time travel is possible, and the universe ramifies. "
So while proving time travel is possible, he concludes that time is not real, which I find breathtakingly illogical.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
That certainly refutes all that farsight has said about Godel and other misinterpretations and dishonesty.