Three Experiments Challenging SRT

80 years is an awful long time to work out how to apply and develop QM entanglement phenonema
remember the Philadelphia exp. 1943 hoax!

Are you sure it was all a hoax !? or just some of it...

who the hell could have dreamed up such an incredible hoax in 1943? they were driving around in vintage cars for Christ sake with movies that bearly moved, with vynl records and new fangled nylon stockings. they couldn't possibly have dreamed up such a hoax with sailers intergrating with the ships structure... shessh! you only have to look at the entertainment industry at the time to see the depth they were capabe of imagining...
The history of science fiction says otherwise. I suggest you spend less time inventing paranoid delusions and conspiracy theories and more time paying attention to reality.

AlphaNumeric, you do not even understand why in a medium where the speed of light invariant assumption is not true, there's no SR.
I gave up to argue logically with you. It is useless.

Your SR is a simple pseudoscience.

sci-creat.gif


You have a theory and nearly a hundred years you desperately looking for facts.
You have no evidence for your claims, while there's a wealth of evidence that SR is quantitatively accurate for all currently measurable regimes. And I notice you didn't actually respond to my retort of your claim people would get fired. You made that up, in contradiction to facts, and when you get called on it you try to change the subject. The fact you change to complaining how SR supposedly has evidence against it makes your behaviour all the more hypocritical. You made up a lie, in contradiction to fact, and you cannot face up to it. Go you :rolleyes:
 
The history of science fiction says otherwise. I suggest you spend less time inventing paranoid delusions and conspiracy theories and more time paying attention to reality.
sheesh you are thick... you should research a little before you make wild claims:
try this:
The term "sci-fi"

Forrest J Ackerman used the term sci-fi (analogous to the then-trendy "hi-fi") at UCLA in 1954.[38] As science fiction entered popular culture, writers and fans active in the field came to associate the term with low-budget, low-tech "B-movies" and with low-quality pulp science fiction.[39][40][41] By the 1970s, critics within the field such as Terry Carr and Damon Knight were using sci-fi to distinguish hack-work from serious science fiction,[42] and around 1978, Susan Wood and others introduced the pronunciation "skiffy". Peter Nicholls writes that "SF" (or "sf") is "the preferred abbreviation within the community of sf writers and readers".[43] David Langford's monthly fanzine Ansible includes a regular section "As Others See Us" which offers numerous examples of "sci-fi" being used in a pejorative sense by people outside the genre.[44] The abbreviation SF (or sf) is commonly used instead of "sci-fi".
note the date: 1954 over 15 years after the philadelphia experiment.
The term sci fi or even the genre science fiction was not even established befor 1954.

The most popular early works included "flying to the moon" E.A. Poe 1800's, or H.G. Wells. War of the worlds 1898 remember they were orginially books and not movies... the movie War of the Worlds was originally created in 1953
And really tame compared to the depictions of the Philadelphia experiment. 1943
Maybe you could benefit by doing a bit of research into the entertainment industries of 1943 when Glen Miller/Harry James music was the rage and Television was a speciality use item.
And here we have a story about sailors participating in a military experiment physically blending [ integrating ] with their ship! in 1943...... it is not the concept of time travel nor the notion that the ship would become invisible nor teleportation as these were fairly regular fantasies of the time however integration of physical human bodies with solid iron stands out as rather incredible imaginings for the time , dont you think?

It was only much later that Star Trek developed the notions of "Beam me up, Scotty!" using disintegration and integration ideas as part of the fantasy.

I believe you're a fan of Star Trek franchise so may be you can recall the year and episode that they first explored what failed teleportation meant?
There are only a very few science fiction movies/series that deal with this "teleportation integration issue" 1] super man 2] x men and a few more...all post 1950's

And if you had discovered qm's quantum entanglement in the 1930's what would be your first reaction regarding SRT? and how long would it take the Government or private corporations to try and capitalise on this discovery and subsequent technology. [ it is only later that science attempted to fudge SRT to "intergrate" with QM.]
80 years of history lessons about SRT...bah! you have got to be kidding!!! Cranksville for sure....


edit: Generally speaking the fantasy fiction genre, only became popular after the success of the childrens book "The Hobbit" by J.R.R. Tolkien in 1937
 
Masterov doesn't understand special relativity, the Lorentz transform or symmetry. It is not about actual (real) coordinates versus "visible" (apparent but not real) coordinates. All coordinates are man-made inventions to name places and times because nothing in nature comes pre-labeled with coordinates.
REMINDER:

Master Theory identifies two types of coordinates: actual (real) and visible.

In this topic discussed visual coordinates only.
It for visual coordinates only.

We see a stars and galaxies in the visual coordinates.
Real coordinates of the stars and galaxies differ from the visual coordinates.

Real coordinates obey Galilean transformations.
If you're talking about relativity, then no. The coordinates related by Lorentz transforms are those that clocks and rulers measure. They are not visual coordinates. They do not take into account the time it takes for light from whatever you are seeing takes to reach you.

The assumption made with Cartesian coordinates in space and time is that each of the four directions is at right angles to the other, such that the directions of place (conventionally: x,y,z) are distinct from the direction of time (conventionally: t). That space and time need at least 4 dimensions for a full description of events is physically obvious since we test this hypothesis on a daily basis every time we arrange a rendezvous. Being late means we got x, y and z right and made a mistake with t.

Both Galilean and Lorentzian relativity assume that any inertial object can be the origin of our x,y,z coordinate system. Therefore the origin of x,y and z in one coordinate system may be in motion relative to the origin of x', y' and z' in the other. Both Galilean and Lorentzian relativity assume any object in inertial motion in a coordinate system has constant velocity, and so are a suitable framework for Newton's first law of motion.

Newton said:
Всякое тело продолжает удерживаться в состоянии покоя или равномерного и прямолинейного движения, пока и поскольку оно не понуждается приложенными силами изменить это состояние.
Every body persists in its state of being at rest or of moving uniformly straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by force impressed.
Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare.
Russian Wikipedia: Newton's Laws of Motion

So if a body is in inertia motion, in every admissible coordinate system, it will have constant velocity $$(u_x,u_y,u_z)$$ and since any body in inertial motion may be an origin of such an admissible coordinate system, it follows that some other coordinate system will assign a potentially different (but still constant) velocity to the same object, $$(u_x',u_y',u_z')$$.

SRT:
$$\Delta x'=\Delta x/\gamma$$
$$\Delta y'=\Delta y$$
$$\Delta z'=\Delta z$$
$$\Delta t'=\Delta t\gamma$$
This is NOT the Lorentz transform. This is NOT a good summary of physics.


The Galilean transform $$G(v) = \Lambda_0(v) = \tiny \begin{pmatrix} 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 \\ v & 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 \end{pmatrix}$$ and the Lorentz transform $$\Lambda(v) = \Lambda_{c^{-2}}(v) = \tiny \begin{pmatrix} \cosh \tanh^{-1} \frac{v}{c} & \frac{1}{c} \sinh \tanh^{-1} \frac{v}{c} & 0 & 0 \\ c \sinh \tanh^{-1} \frac{v}{c} & \cosh \tanh^{-1} \frac{v}{c} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 \end{pmatrix}$$ are both transforms of Cartesian coordinates of time and space. They both take motionless worldlines and convert them to worldlines with velocity v in the x direction. They both take worldlines moving at -v in the x direction and convert them to motionless world lines. They both commute with translations in space and/or time and as they are linear, they work equally well on Cartesian coordinates and differences of Cartesian coordinates. Both transforms are parametrized the same way, such that if an object has velocity $$(u_x = -v, \; u_y = 0, \; u_z = 0)$$ then in the other coordinate system it be at rest: $$(u_x = 0, \; u_y = 0, \; u_z = 0)$$.

The two transforms say different things, however about the structure of space-time, which is illustrated in that the Galilean transform has eigenvectors of space-only, while the eigenvectors of the Lorentz transform mix up time and space in exactly the same way that world-lines of light moving in the x direction do.

So if you want to test if Newton and Galileo are right about absolute time or if Lorentz and Einstein are right, you need a single model which can be used to calculate both outcomes based on varying a single parameter and see what value of the parameter is consistent with physical experiment. Thus, I introduced the generalized Galilean transform (following von Ignatowsky).
$${\huge \Lambda_K (v)} = \begin{pmatrix} \frac{1}{\sqrt{1 - K v^2}} & \frac{K v}{\sqrt{1 - K v^2}} & 0 & 0 \\ \frac{v}{\sqrt{1 - K v^2}} & \frac{1}{\sqrt{1 - K v^2}} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 \end{pmatrix}$$

Fan's pet theory set $$ K < 0 $$ but his results were more consistent with $$K > 0$$.
Newton, Galileo and Masterov assumed $$K = 0$$ but only Masterov rejects evidence that K is closer to $$c^{\tiny -2}$$ -- Newton and Galileo didn't have access to that level of precision experiment.

That is not the only difference. The earliest definition of SRT defines it as satisfying two postulates:

  1. The laws of physics are the same in all inertial coordinate systems.
  2. The speed of light is invariant.
You have addressed the second postulate but not the first. The first postulate is basically saying that the transformation between inertial coordinate systems must be a symmetry that leaves the laws of physics unchanged. It comes from the fact that SRT was intended as a replacement for Galilean relativity, which is based on a similar principle.

With any symmetry, applying one symmetry and then another is still a symmetry. If $$S_{1}$$ is a symmetry and $$S_{2}$$ is a symmetry, then $$S_{1} S_{2}$$ is a symmetry.

Examples:

  • If $$R_{1}$$ is a rotation and $$R_{2}$$ is a rotation, then $$R_{1} R_{2}$$ is still a rotation.
  • If $$T_{1}$$ is a translation and $$T_{2}$$ is a translation, then $$T_{1} T_{2}$$ is still a translation.
  • If $$G_{1}$$ is a Galilean transform (of velocity $$\bar{u}$$) and $$G_{2}$$ is a Galilean transform (of velocity $$\bar{v}$$), then $$G_{1} G_{2}$$ is still a Galilean transform (of velocity $$\bar{u} \,+\, \bar{v}$$).
  • If $$\Lambda_{1}$$ is a Lorentz transform and $$\Lambda_{2}$$ is a Lorentz transform, then $$\Lambda_{1} \Lambda_{2}$$ is still a Lorentz transform.

But if $$M_{1}$$ is a "Masterov transform" and $$M_{2}$$ is another "Masterov transform", you will find that $$M_{1} M_{2}$$ is generally not a "Masterov transform".

MT:
$$\Delta x'=\Delta x/\gamma^2$$
$$\Delta y'=\Delta y/\gamma$$
$$\Delta z'=\Delta z/\gamma$$
$$\Delta t'=\Delta t$$

While Galileo has a velocity composition law of $$w = u + v$$ (because $$G(u)G(v) = G(v)G(u) = G(w)$$) and Einstein had a velocity composition law of $$w = \frac{u + v}{1 + c^{-2} u v}$$ (because $$\Lambda(u)\Lambda(v) = \Lambda(v)\Lambda(u) = \Lambda(w)$$) there is no sensible formula for the composition of velocities in Masterov's transform because the closest you can come is $$w^2 = u^2 + v^2 - \frac{u^2v^2}{c^2}$$. (But this doesn't generalize to motion in other directions as it is not a symmetry.)

Example 1: $$u = \frac{c}{3 \times 10^6} \approx 360 \; \textrm{kph}, v = \frac{c}{9\times10^6} \approx 120 \; \textrm{kph}$$
Galileo: $$w = \frac{4 c}{9 \times 10^6} \approx 480 \; \textrm{kph}$$
Lorentz: $$w = \frac{12\times 10^6}{27\times 10^{12} + 1}c \approx 480 \; \textrm{kph}$$
Masterov: $$|w| = \frac{\sqrt{90 \times 10^{12} -1}}{27 \times 10^{12}} \approx 380 \; \textrm{kph}$$ (inconsistent with experiment)

Example 2: $$u = \frac{c}{3 \times 10^6} \approx 360 \; \textrm{kph}, v = -\frac{c}{9\times 10^6} \approx -120 \; \textrm{kph}$$
Galileo: $$w = \frac{2 c}{9 \times 10^6} \approx 240 \; \textrm{kph}$$
Lorentz: $$w = \frac{6\times 10^6}{27\times 10^{12} - 1} c \approx 240 \; \textrm{kph}$$
Masterov: $$|w| = \frac{\sqrt{90 \times 10^{12} - 1}}{27 \times 10^{12}} \approx 380 \; \textrm{kph}$$ (inconsistent with experiment)

Example 3: $$u = \frac{c}{3 \times 10^6} \approx 360 \; \textrm{kph}, v = -\frac{c}{3\times 10^6} \approx -360 \; \textrm{kph}$$
Galileo: $$w = 0$$
Lorentz: $$w = 0$$
Masterov: $$|w| = \frac{\sqrt{18 \times 10^{12} - 1}}{9 \times 10^{12}} \approx 509 \; \textrm{kph}$$ (inconsistent with experiment)

In addition, the Masterov transform doesn't even convert motionless worldlines to worldlines with motion.


I'm going to try to present MT-idea of ​​again just.

When the observer moves with respect to hours, increases the path traveled by photons in clocks, despite the fact that there is a reduction of the longitudinal-scale. Therefore in SRT Einstein introduces time dilation.

$$\Delta x'=\Delta x\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}$$
$$\Delta y'=\Delta y$$
$$\Delta z'=\Delta z$$
$$\Delta t'=\Delta t/\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}$$

That is not a good summary of SRT. SRT also has a relativity of simultaneity effect which is necessary for invariance of the (one way) speed of light. The full relation between coordinates for a boost along the x axis is given by a Lorentz transformation:

$$
\begin{eqnarray}
t' &=& \gamma (t \,-\, \frac{v}{c^{2}} x)
x' &=& \gamma (x \,-\, vt)
y' &=& y
z' &=& z \,,
\end{eqnarray}
$$​

with $$\gamma \,=\, (1 \,-\, v^{2}/c^{2})^{-1/2}$$. SRT length contraction and time dilation can be derived as special cases of this transformation. Your summary is also misleading because if two events occur a distance $$\Delta x$$ from one another, the distance between them in a different frame is generally not $$\Delta x \sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}$$.

The Lorentz transformation leaves the speed of light invariant, e.g. $$x \,=\, ct \,\Rightarrow\, x' \,=\, ct'$$..

Each assumption of a value of K gives one mathematical structure as internally self-consistent as the other, but in physics we let Nature decide what value of K we should use. To deny Nature the deciding vote is to abandon physics.

Masterov's "summary" of special relativity is badly flawed in three ways.
1) His "SRT transform" of a non-moving object doesn't make it move with velocity v -- this is also a fault of the MT transform
2) His "SRT transform" of an object moving with velocity u in the x direction doesn't make it come to a halt until |v| = c -- this is also a fault of the MT transform
3) His "SRT transform" of +v, when composed with -v doesn't equal a transform with velocity 0 -- this is also a fault of the MT transform
4) His "SRT transform" of any non-zero velocity u, when composed with any non-zero velocity v in a different direction doesn't equal any transform for any velocity w -- this is also a fault of the MT transform
So of course both Masterov's "summary" of special relativity and the MT transform lead to physically inconsistent predictions like two objects in the same state of motion need not have clocks ticking at the same rate. These flaws are not shared by any of the generalized Galilean transforms. And the Lorentz transform is exactly what we get when we assume the hypothesis that $$K=c^{\tiny -2}$$.
(slight edits for correctness and clarity)
I seems that I'm screaming into the void.
Please stop screaming until you understand the topic.
 
You have no evidence for your claims, while there's a wealth of evidence that SR is quantitatively accurate for all currently measurable regimes. And I notice you didn't actually respond to my retort of your claim people would get fired. You made that up, in contradiction to facts, and when you get called on it you try to change the subject. The fact you change to complaining how SR supposedly has evidence against it makes your behaviour all the more hypocritical. You made up a lie, in contradiction to fact, and you cannot face up to it. Go you :rolleyes:

[url]http://cdn.content.sweetim.com/sim/cp/icons/00010911.swf[/URL]
 
i.e. Emil no longer wants to be part of the discussion, because it hurts his feelings when you use facts.
fact is... SRT is over 100 years old and well.. things and the real science has moved on since then... get over it.
 
Yikes !

What ?
You wouldn't believe me if I told you....
suffice to say this though as a sort of cryptic response:
organisations that monitor often fail to realise that they are also being monitored.
Certain information was made available in a monitored environment which the monitor of the monitor was very interested in...
Certain actions over night have since been undertaken....

It is really stupid don't you think? that anyone could presume that competitive forces are not always present in any environment.
This sites pm system has been returned to relative normal....as far as I am aware...
 
No person in their right mind, Governments included can ignore empirical evidence as shown [ clearly availlable to the public ] in this thread.
Earth quake trend - reason for concern.
and what is more they have known about it since 1985/86
[we shall see if we get another so called data base roll back shortly...]
news should be in the global media shortly I would expect...
 
You wouldn't believe me if I told you....
suffice to say this though as a sort of cryptic response:
organisations that monitor often fail to realise that they are also being monitored.
Certain information was made available in a monitored environment which the monitor of the monitor was very interested in...
Certain actions over night have since been undertaken....

It is really stupid don't you think? that anyone could presume that competitive forces are not always present in any environment.
This sites pm system has been returned to relative normal....as far as I am aware...

Sure - if it wasn't for competitive forces we wouldn't have a world.

Anyway, whatever .. subterfuge .. whatever .. guys, I'm only a lighweight curious onlooker. So don't shoot me - I'm not even the paino player!
 
Sure - if it wasn't for competitive forces we wouldn't have a world.

Anyway, whatever .. subterfuge .. whatever .. guys, I'm only a lighweight curious onlooker. So don't shoot me - I'm not even the paino player!

the whole point of advertising my real name and email addresses to both groups was to prevent any one to do with this web site from getting "shot", including me.
 
there's a wealth of evidence that SR is quantitatively accurate for all currently measurable regimes.
I have said many times and I repeat again: the experiments that confirm SRT, confirm and MT in the same way.

Difference (SRT and MT) occurs in the experiments, which are absent in the literature.
Today, after the publication Liangzao FAN, we can speak in the past about it.

Lack of publication of experiments that demonstrate the difference between SRT and MT suggests that all these experiments contradict SRT.
Otherwise, materials experiments confirming SRT, are published long time ago.

CONCLUSION: The lack of publication of experiments in which there is a difference between SRT and MT, unambiguous evidence in favor of the MT.

SRT is lying, and it's been proven both experimentally and theoretically.
 
I have said many times and I repeat again: the experiments that confirm SRT, confirm and MT in the same way.

Yes, you have said that many times, and it is as much a lie now as it was the first time you said it. You have not shown that experimental results currently explained with the aid of SRT are easily explained some other way. You have simply chosen to ignore most of them. You have not, for example, given a good explanation for why high energy particles are routinely detected in particle physics with 10,000 - 100,000 or more times the energy predicted by the Newtonian energy formula for the same particle travelling at the speed of light. You do not have an alternative explanation for nuclear fission or for what powers the sun. You do not have a good (non-conspiracy theory) explanation for why anyone connected with the GPS system seems to think relativistic corrections are necessary.


CONCLUSION: The lack of publication of experiments in which there is a difference between SRT and MT, unambiguous evidence in favor of the MT.

Your unwillingness to consider alternative explanations does not make your conclusion credible. It simply means you are sticking your fingers in your ears and choosing to believe whatever you want to believe.
 
given a good explanation for why high energy particles are routinely detected in particle physics with 10,000 - 100,000 or more times the energy predicted by the Newtonian energy formula for the same particle travelling at the speed of light. You do not have an alternative explanation for nuclear fission or for what powers the sun.
All these huge energy are obtained only on paper in accordance with SRT-formulas and with formulas of classical electrodynamics. And another these are energy give the calorimeters, which are calibrated in accordance with these formulas.

You arrange verbiage instead to show the results of simple experiments, in which the temperature of a piece of lead under the influence of super-relativistic electrons continues to grow in proportion to the potential difference of the accelerating field.

You do hide the results of these experiments, because the publication of their leave you without a job.
==================

Все эти огромные энергии получаются лишь на бумаге в согласии с формулами SRT и классической электродинамики. А так же эти энергии получают в калориметрах, которые калибруют в согласии с этими формулами.

Вы устраиваете словоблудие вместо того, чтобы показать результаты простого эксперимента, в котором температура кусочка свинца под воздействием супер-релятивистских электронов продолжает расти пропорционально разности потенциалов ускоряющего поля.

Вы прячете результаты этих экспериментов потому, что публикация их оставит вас без работы.
You do not have a good (non-conspiracy theory) explanation for why anyone connected with the GPS system seems to think relativistic corrections are necessary.
GPS-relativism exists on paper only.
GPS-relativism exists as a specification for software GPS-satellites, and in the form of programs that have written the developers. These programs have been commented out (removed) because of the lack of any relativistic effects on GPS-satellites.

The latter fact is not advertised because its publicity leave without work like you.
==============

GPS-релятивизм тоже существует только на бумаге.
GPS-релятивизм существует в виде технического задания для разработчиков программного обеспечения GPS-спутников, и в виде программ, которые написали эти разработчики. Эти программы были закомментированы (удалены) из-за отсутствия каких либо релятивистских эффектов на GPS-спутниках.

Последний факт не афишируется именно потому, что его огласка оставит без работы таких, как вы.
 
CONCLUSION: The lack of publication of experiments in which there is a difference between SRT and MT, unambiguous evidence in favor of the MT.
Your unwillingness to consider alternative explanations does not make your conclusion credible. It simply means you are sticking your fingers in your ears and choosing to believe whatever you want to believe.
Rather than give a simple logical explanation logical conflicts that arise as a consequence of SRT-time dilation, you write the Lorentz formulas that do not explain anything, because they themselves are the nonsense.
========================

Вместо того, чтобы дать простое логичное объяснение логических конфликтов, которые возникают как следствие SRT-замедление времени, вы пишете формулы Лоренца, которые ничего не объясняют, потому что они сами по себе нонсенс.
 
That's what I said.
Masterov,do not get mad!
Do you realize how many people would lose their jobs if SR is not true?
And that is what you understood you.
I'll take that as an acceptance you can provide no evidence for your claim people get fired
Your understanding is amazing.
Yes, I claim that all who have the job to teach SR will lose their job to teach SR, whether you agree or disagree.
..you cannot retort my list of counter examples when previous paradigms got knocked over.
None of the examples of SR is not valid, as happens in medium and not in vacuum as required by SR.
No Michelson–Morley, no muons, no GPS ... you have nothing. All this takes place in a medium.
If you repeat it in future I'll report you for deliberate dishonesty.
Yes, of course, all those who do not have the same opinion with yours are dishonest.
The only honest you are with those who think the same as you.
The word dishonest, has no meaning if you are the one who uses it.
It's worth to give a search to see how many times you have used this "argument".

[url]http://www.sciforums.com/search.php?searchid=117285[/URL]
 
Emil the search link fails if the reader is not your username...
what key words did you use?

dishonesty by AlphaNumeric
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