There was no Sun worship

No it doesn't seem that the Jewish traditions were based heavily on sun worship. However, much of the Jewish faith seems to have been built on other religions from the area; some of which do have a strong history of sun worship.

Certain aspects of the OT could be linked to a sun-worship tradition, and have been by many scholars. Some more obvious than others, such as the Birkat ha-Hammah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkat_HaHammah
 
Their god - Jahve. It's a personalized phenomena :D It's a metaphor made into an object. Sorry, as I said, I don't wish to spend this evening discussing christianity. Actually I'm now going to read a book. Cya, all
 
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John99 said:
It is impossible to worship something that cannot respond in any way whatsoever, it is like worshipping a Maseratti. If people worship the Sun and equate it with life they can just as well worship bacteria.
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At least the sun exists unlike the god we have now, it probably responds alot more than god does as well.

I recon if people are able to worship something which they have never seen or felt, they can easily worship a ball of flame with grows their crops, warms them, and looks pritty.

To help this assumption, back then they did not know whatthe sun was, so instead of prasing the sun they praised a sun god and so on. My father's family originated from Persia, before Islam came along they were Zoroastrian, they praised the Sun god, Fire god, Earth god and I don't know what else, they still light the Zoroastrian flame one in a while, the worship of the sun and fire is written all over Samarkand.
 
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There is no Fire god, Earth god, etc in Zoroastrism.

Basic beliefs
There is one universal and transcendental God, Ahura Mazda, the one uncreated Creator and to whom all worship is ultimately directed.
Ahura Mazda's creation - evident as asha, truth and order - is the antithesis of chaos, evident as druj, falsehood and disorder. The resulting conflict involves the entire universe, including humanity, which has an active role to play in the conflict (see #3 below).
Active participation in life through good thoughts, good words and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep the chaos at bay. This active participation is a central element in Zoroaster's concept of free will, and Zoroastrianism rejects all forms of monasticism.
Ahura Mazda will ultimately prevail, at which point the universe will undergo a cosmic renovation and time will end (cf: Zoroastrian eschatology). In the final renovation, all of creation - even the souls of the dead that were initially banished to "darkness" - will be (re)united in God.
In Zoroastrian tradition, the malevolent is represented by Angra Mainyu, the "Destructive Principle", while the benevolent is represented through Ahura Mazda's Spenta Mainyu, the instrument or "Bounteous Principle" of the act of creation. It is through Spenta Mainyu that Ahura Mazda is immanent in humankind, and through which the Creator interacts with the world. According to Zoroastrian cosmology, in articulating the Ahuna Vairya formula, Ahura Mazda made His ultimate triumph evident to Angra Mainyu.
As expressions and aspects of Creation, Ahura Mazda emanated seven "sparks", the Amesha Spentas, "Bounteous Immortals" that are each the hypostasis and representative of one aspect of that Creation. These Amesha Spenta are in turn assisted by a league of lesser principles, the Yazatas, each "Worthy of Worship" and each again a hypostasis of a moral or physical aspect of Creation.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
 
BlueMoose said:
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-guess who, not Jesus...
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Well the first image is...is...um...is it...can it be? YACATECUHTLI???
http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/aztec-mythology.php?deity=YACATECUHTLI

Most cannot even spell the name yet they have websites about it.

The second cross-bearer is from your link:

http://www.answering-christianity.org/ac.htm

Your caption is - guess Who? I dont know, why dont you tell us. Is it Copyright 2005? you probably dont even know.

And so what if you are Muslim, we are looking for unbiased sources. No one here is looking to take anything away from you. And if i need to say this over and over i will - I DO NOT FOLLOW AN ORGANIZED RELIGION. MY RESPONSES DO NOT NEED TO CHECK OUT WITH ANY COMMONLY HELD BELIEFS, ONLY BASED ON INDEPENDANT RATIONAL OBSERVATION. I AM IN SEARCH OF KNOWLEDGE AND PERSONAL INTEREST. I dont believe half the bull shit being perpetuated, that makes me less prone to believe in myth than most that responded here.

And to give you a clue, Jesus can certainly have similarities to others - WHY? Because there is the possibility of numerous manifestations. POSS IB BILL IT TEEEEE.

YACATECUHTLI was, as far as i know, never crucified.

Director of the Pochtecas Chamber of Commerce, YACATECUHTLI offers insider dealing only and it's very difficult to obtain membership. The secret symbol is a bundle of twigs.
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His symbol is the cross, which he appears to be carrying as though attempting to hawk it from door-to-door. Makes a change from double-glazing — although we don't know if he offers any kind of warranty.
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The idea behind education is to not remain ignorant. A bad education is worse than no education. Are you going to tell us nex that Romans did not crucify? Hence, the CROSS.

BlueMoose said:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

The Part One of this movie makes the case better than I.
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Oh i am sure it makes a case better than you (it makes the 'head case' case very well) but there is a thread on the movie already, you should read it.

Odin'Izm said:
At least the sun exists unlike the god we have now, it probably responds alot more than god does as well.

I recon if people are able to worship something which they have never seen or felt, they can easily worship a ball of flame with grows their crops, warms them, and looks pritty.---[:rolleyes:]

To help this assumption, back then they did not know whatthe sun was, so instead of prasing the sun they praised a sun god and so on. My father's family originated from Persia, before Islam came along they were Zoroastrian, they praised the Sun god, Fire god, Earth god and I don't know what else, they still light the Zoroastrian flame one in a while, the worship of the sun and fire is written all over Samarkand.
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I do know that many ancient people were more intelligent than modern ones, this is proven repeatedly AND it is also becoming clear that no modern religion should use anything that uses the SUN as a symbol in any way so as to not be taken out of context....ooooh that is the SUN, Billy. This would be funny if it were not so sad. The fact is that i worry about our civilization and how it embraces ignorance.
 
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YACATECUHTLI

He who contains all the four seasons. What defines what season it is ? The sun and how much of it is there to be seen of it, i.e sun owns all the seasons, one year cycle i.e the time that takes earth to go around the sun.
He who leads the way i.e the sun, the sun and the stars were the objects in the sky which helped travellers.
He who is presented on the cross, i.e the sun is staying still in the crosspoint of the southern cross in the sky, guess when, yes, 22-25.12 and at the thrid day he/sun is raising up in the sky/heaven.
Winter Solstice (Dec. 22-25)

http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAsset&id=178
 
You are pointing out that traditions carried over through generations, i have allready acknowledged this in another post. There are three seperate holidays in the Christian, Jewish and Muslim faiths that coincide almost enirely just differ in lenght of time.

Ramadan, Yom Kippur and Christma\New Years - PARTY. December 25th was a common time for a MAJOR celebration. Celebrating your crops growing...ok fine.

My goal here is to question the notion of THE SUN as THE CREATOR (by the majority) or was it much less than that? Thats all. I have no interest in obscure tribes or small groups.

Of course the sun was visible but so was\is vast amounts of space. They could surmise that there was something beyond the sun.
 
My goal here is to question the notion of THE SUN as THE CREATOR (by the majority) or was it much less than that? Thats all. I have no interest in obscure tribes or small groups.
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No, from your starting post it is clear that you question the notion that the Sun has been worshipped at all.
By adding "creator" and the requirement for majority you have limited the scope of your argument and thus acknowledged defeat. Naturally.

John99 said:
Humans identify with humans and to a lesser extent other living creatures. The Sun is an object but has no characteristics humans would identify with. I doubt that the Sun was ever worshipped at all, more than likely this stems from a misunderstanding of ancient people and ancient art which draws some amazing conclusions. We can look at artifacts and can claim to know more from them but we dont, whatever makes us feel better i guess.
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Avatar, the simplest deduction is that so far ALL these supposed sun gods have a human form or some form that looks alot like a human with fire coming out of his head.
 
THE SUN as THE CREATOR - Yes.

When lots of sun then lots of creation in nature, easy connection to understand back then, and in other hand, too much sun with no water then destruction, just like God can be hard on us time to time ;) maker/destructor ying/yang and shivas dance and so on.

I read once about some tribe which bowed to empty coke bottle,
so why not take the sun as a creator, something so powerful that you cant even watch it.
 
So? That's where religion comes in. Belief, folk stories and the like, ya know.
Art is not naturalistic, not even when humans depict humans, much less a mythical mystery in heavens.
 
I think post #75 is pretty compelling, can you refute it?

BlueMoose said:
THE SUN as THE CREATOR - Yes.

When lots of sun then lots of creation in nature, easy connection to understand back then, and in other hand, too much sun with no water then destruction, just like God can be hard on us time to time ;) maker/destructor ying/yang and shivas dance and so on.

I read once about some tribe which bowed to empty coke bottle,
so why not take the sun as a creator, something so powerful that you cant even watch it.
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And what direct role does the sun play in human birth? Humans were born in caves, and even AT NIGHT.

I read once about some tribe which bowed to empty coke bottle,
so why not take the sun as a creator
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That is exactly what i am saying. Just because an object has an element of worship does not make it the focal point.
 
And what direct role does the sun play in human birth?

- I dont know, you have to ask for those whom worships sun ;)

In Egypt there was lots of Gods until Akhenaton (spellcheckalert) did bring Sun to be the only God, why, I dont know.

That is exactly what i am saying. Just because an object has an element of worship does not make it the focal point.

-Are you trying to say that when they worshipped sun they transfered Gods qualities to sun knowing that the sun wasnt the real God ? Is that it ?
 
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