The reason is that Theism binds itself tightly to a person's sense of self and for someone or something (ex. reality) to challenge Theism is the equivelant to threatening to destroy a theists personal identity (which emotionally is interpreted as a threat on their very lives).
The Veracity of Biblical Prophecy
- Thread starter IceAgeCivilizations
- Start date
The reason is that Theism binds itself tightly to a person's sense of self and for someone or something (ex. reality) to challenge Theism is the equivelant to threatening to destroy a theists personal identity (which emotionally is interpreted as a threat on their very lives).
All that can really be said for dates of the Dead Sea Scrolls is that they appear to be written before 100 CE. Dates have been variously assigned from 21 BCE - 61 CE. There is no reason to believe that anything written in the DS offer verification of "prophecies."
You've failed yet again.
That's real covincining.
Just say it didn't happen.
You say the passage is clear, using the text to refute itself, and when that fails deny the text itself.....
I'll grant you the right to your own beliefs though.
Just don't try to push to push them off on others.
That's the reason is was written in such a way.
So some can read it and see nothing there but fables.
You can go and live your life, certain there was nothing there.
God hides in simplicity, and reveals Himself in the same.
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As far as the first quote above: Exactly what most of the current U.S govts' special advisors are doing...allowing their religious beliefs to influence govt policy. Example: A recent report urging action by the govt to address global warming was put down as christian advisors told bush and company that A) We deserve global warming as judgement from the lord and B) It's not mentioned in the bible so we should not do anything about it.
So it would seem some very influential people are affecting the lives of the rest of us because of their idiotic belief system.
As far as the second quote: How true! Some of us can use logic and reasoning.
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No, they were not!!! There were absolutely NO eye-witnesses of Jesus! He did not exist as a real person. He was a figurative hero! Jesus did NOT exist! Can you prove his existence? I thing NOT!
Plenty of evidence that He did, there is nothing you can do about that, no matter how much you kick and scream.
You should look into the religions of the Pacific Islands that worship a man named "John Smith". The islanders saw Americans come in and build airstrips during the second World War and saw all of the wonderful goods that these men had. Some natives were even enlisted in the building of these air strips.
60 years later, and the religion is still in existence. The natives build mock airports out of bamboo and fake control towers. They believe in the future return of John Smith and all of the wonderful goods that he will bring.
The amazing thing is... there is no record of a John Smith serving in any of these islands. It is impossible to find, with the amazing record-keeping of the military of WWII America, any mention of a John Smith. The character seems to be a combination of many American traits, and the averaging of the most common first and last name of all the troops. He is a mythical creature even though many who helped found the religion have just recently passed away. The religion spread rapidly to many islands and is just as REAL as Christianity in the days of Paul.
Now, most Christians are so deluded and arrogant that they will laugh like snots at the comparison, but the comparison is real. It is a good bet that a guy named Jesus lived, but it is only that. There is no conclusive evidence. Most biblical historians lean heavily towards Jesus being real, but few sober ones are as assured as most uneducated Christians are.
And Skinwalker is making all the points necessary in this thread. Most of the predictions in the OT were made in hindsight. It was a common literary technique used by OT authors. Before they made their predictions, they would first make some OLD predictions as if they were written many years ago. By using this knowledge, biblical historians are able to DATE the authorship of some books by seeing where the predictions break down. Some of the books written in captivity are very obvious. They predict historical events and then promise the eventual release of the Jews, but their future predictions are horrible.
Now, as the Bible was being copied through the centuries, knowledgeable scribes would often note these mistakes and assume that the mistake was in the previous copy, because the scribe bought into the mystical nature of the Bible. Because of this, many of the correct predictions are thought to have been corrected for over the years, as some of the oldest manuscripts that have been turned up have the worst record for predictions.
One interesting point about Biblical manuscripts and the nature of copying mistakes: If you compare 100 manuscripts and 98 of them say one thing, and 2 of them say something else. It is probably the 2 that have the original, and the 98 that are wrong. I know it is counter-intuitive, but only until you think about it. The problem is that any mistake made early is passed down many times, just like the children's game of "Whisper". Since most existing copies are the more recent ones, the original is often lost in the noise of propagated mistakes. This is a lesson that geneticists need to learn because they routinely make the mistake of tagging overlapping sequences as the more historical.
If any of you Christians are really interested in uncovering what the original Bible really said, you can't do much worse than starting off with a book called "Misquoting Jesus". It is more basic than most, but heady enough to get you thinking properly about the Bible. The author was raised a very conservative Christian and has the best biblical training you can hope for, fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Give it a read.
Skinwalker, sorry to butt in, you have been thrilling me in this thread. Keep it up.
The Dead Sea Scrolls prove the prophecies weren't written in hindsight.
And notice the "John Smith" religion hasn't exactly taken the world by storm, and when the Gospels were being distributed (1st century), NOBODY challenged the accuracy of them.
You say the OT predictions are "horrible," name one.
And notice the "John Smith" religion hasn't exactly taken the world by storm, and when the Gospels were being distributed (1st century), NOBODY challenged the accuracy of them.
You say the OT predictions are "horrible," name one.
Yea! IceAge, I google biblical prophecies like you said, and here's what I got:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/prophecies.htm
http://www.goatstar.org/failed-prophecies/
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2006/05/genesis-immortality-and-failed.html
I think you get the point!
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/prophecies.htm
http://www.goatstar.org/failed-prophecies/
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2006/05/genesis-immortality-and-failed.html
I think you get the point!
And the Bible is an OBJECTIVE SOURCE?
You are looking foolish here. Please embrace the illogical nature of your faith and stop looking for evidence. God is testing you. He arranged the universe in the only way possible for nobody to ever detect his existence. He created natural laws to dictate EVERYTHING. He obviously either does not want to be found, or wants you to believe in him with NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. So do the old chap a favor and just believe everything your parents told you and leave him alone.
The prophecy:
Luke 17
But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”
Jesus gives understanding about the nature of the Kingdom of God:
Luke 17
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
The coming of the Kingdom of God fulfilled.
Acts 2
1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Kingdom of God is within us.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Luke 17
But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”
Jesus gives understanding about the nature of the Kingdom of God:
Luke 17
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
The coming of the Kingdom of God fulfilled.
Acts 2
1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Kingdom of God is within us.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Cool. I am right and you admit that you have nothing to add to the discussion. My disproof of God stands until it is refuted, and you must stop telling people that "God can not be disproven". Since A) I have done so. And B) you have not shown me any evidence to contradict A.
If you keep persisting, you are a lunatic. If you refuse to engage in this discussion, it is because you are too scared or lazy to attempt it. But you do not get to do any of these things and pretend to still be correct.
It has always amazed me that the very people you shout the loudest about the importance of taking the bible literally are always also the most eager to do mental gymnastic and come up with unlikely interpretations in order to create examples of "prophecy fulfillment".
There's also no getting around that fact that the bible is also littered with prophesies that have completely failed, and that no amount of rationalizing can explain away.
There's also no getting around that fact that the bible is also littered with prophesies that have completely failed, and that no amount of rationalizing can explain away.
Name one that has failed.
Name some "unlikely interpretations."
Name some "unlikely interpretations."
Deuteronomy 23:2
"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD."
This should be posted in big letters above the entrance to every church building to keep all those little "bastards" out. I will have to talk to my pastor about this! He may not understand that he is in grave error by letting all those "bastards" into the congregation of the Lord. We probably better also start looking at the genealogies of everyone else in the congregation and see if they are one of the 10 generations that should be kept out of the church as well. Praise the Lord... Hallelujah... Glory to God... Praise Allah!
This child is guilty of what? For being born? How is that his fault, again?
There is no excuse for this!
NONE!
"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD."
This should be posted in big letters above the entrance to every church building to keep all those little "bastards" out. I will have to talk to my pastor about this! He may not understand that he is in grave error by letting all those "bastards" into the congregation of the Lord. We probably better also start looking at the genealogies of everyone else in the congregation and see if they are one of the 10 generations that should be kept out of the church as well. Praise the Lord... Hallelujah... Glory to God... Praise Allah!
This child is guilty of what? For being born? How is that his fault, again?
There is no excuse for this!
NONE!
There is a New Testament (Covenant), try reading that.
And Allah was one of three hundred and sixty gods until Muhammed came along, so he obviously can't be the God of the Bible, and any ememy of Israel is an enemy of the God of the Bible.
And Allah was one of three hundred and sixty gods until Muhammed came along, so he obviously can't be the God of the Bible, and any ememy of Israel is an enemy of the God of the Bible.
Les Propheties - Nostradamus.
If you spout enough - some of it might come to pass - eventually - given enough time - and any amount of liberal interpretation - maybe.
Deuteronomy 23:2
"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD."
Ice,
Do you believe that this commandment is good?
"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD."
Ice,
Do you believe that this commandment is good?
Fine. The Old Testament is OUT. No more of you quoting the OT for anything. Fair?
The 10 commandments, GONE. Ill-treatment of homosexuals, GONE. Talk of Adam and Eve, ENOUGH. Flood-induced lesson, GONE.
If you guys don't believe in the OT, why weigh down your book with it? And why do you ignore Jesus' plea that he came to UPHOLD the laws and prophets, not to overturn them?
My god, you hypocrites want it every which way possible. You pretend that Mary is a virgin, but you point to Joseph as Jesus' father in order to fulfill prophecy! How can people be this brazenly ignorant?!