The Trump Presidency

[Schmelzer]

I don't care much about the fate of humanity. It deserves to perish.

I care. I do not think it deserves to perish. But in the long run it will perish. This ape species is simply too aggressive to survive the access to really deadly weapons over a long time.

The Russians have been playing Chicken for ages...

The Russian proverb is that the Russians do not start wars, they end them.

The problem with Bit coin in the context of our discussion is that it is really just a rehash of an old idea.

Sorry, but I do not reject ideas because they are old. So this is not a problem at all for me.

For the world to move towards a universal currency it needs to change the nature of currency itself.

Why, if a return to gold gives the same universality?

Not to discover US military tactics and operations.

Studying open sources gives valuable information about this too.

You think Obama floated that in a public newspaper, risking embarrassment and worse, without knowing how Putin would respond, in order to find out. Seriously, you believe that.
And you think Obama would have treated "no response" to a newspaper article as a reliable indication of Russian reaction to actual bombing, reliable enough to bet the public loss of aircraft and pilots, relibale enough to bet on war with Russia over, in the absence of any other information.

You know, the US has already bombed the Syrian army, working as the Daesh airforce, in Deir Ezzor. Officially that was an accident. "Friendly fire" against the main enemy or so.

And you think bombing Syria would have benefitted Clinton in the election - at the same time as you repost the standard Republican schtick that Clinton is a warmonger who wants to bomb everybody, and Clinton is trying to portray Trump as a reckless guy likely to bomb people.

It is well-known that presenting oneself as a tough guy is helpful in America. Ok, America is not the only place where such things are helpful, but one of those where this is extremely important.

And since you obviously aren't paying attention, I have to repeat: not for Obama, and not for the US Republicans. If you are going to insist on this play-toy Hollywood theatre of communication between Obama and Putin regarding Syria, at least recognize the context: Obama didn't want to risk bombing Assad's forces, a faction of generals and Republicans in the US government wanted him to do that and more, and he was being badgered in public about it. Any public stuff engineered by Obama would first and principally have been aimed at his domestic enemies - Putin he has much more reliable ways of communicating with.

You forget that public statements have properties different from secret communication channels: Once you use them, it becomes much harder to step back, you are publicly committed to this.

Or you could take a more likely tack: supposing the article was planted, who would be the likely source? Clearly Obama's enemies, not Obama - people who had an interest in making Obama and anyone associated with Obama look weak, and who had a good idea what Putin would do (or even a direct line to Putin). The Washington Post would certainly cooperate.

Conspirology. After the fact - when it became obvious that Obama was the chicken - this sounds reasonable. But it is not at all typical for Putin to do such things. And, again, the timing after the plutonium ultimatum. It makes no sense with your conspirology. But it makes sense for Obama to show himself as a tough guy after the ultimatum.

90% of credible info comes from video at least. and you hadn't and haven't watched any video?

I prefer texts.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I prefer texts.

You prefer lies and propaganda...

Does watching Video evidence threaten you in some way?
What are you so scared about?

Why, if a return to gold gives the same universality?

Yeah Putin would say the same thing...medieval BS...

The Russian proverb is that the Russians do not start wars, they end them.

which is the real reason for sacking his Feet officer class in the Baltics.
he got the heavy word from Obama and had to do something fast or Moscow and the Kremlin would be ashes...

As Obama said in a "video press meeting", "I gave Putin a quiet chat" about Russian chicken shit in the Baltics.
But you don't watch video so you missed it.... you prefer lies and propaganda instead....

 

[Quantum Quack]

Conspirology. After the fact - when it became obvious that Obama was the chicken - this sounds reasonable. But it is not at all typical for Putin to do such things. And, again, the timing after the plutonium ultimatum. It makes no sense with your conspirology. But it makes sense for Obama to show himself as a tough guy after the ultimatum.

do you have and video evidence to support this propaganda?

 

[iceaura]

No, I leave such fake accusations to iceaura.

I have never once claimed that any video posted on this forum was fake.

It is well-known that presenting oneself as a tough guy is helpful in America.

And you think that caving in to Republican pressure would make Obama look tough?
or was it Clinton - already being accused of warmongering, and trying to present Trump as the scary threat to bomb people - who would look tough by being associated with either caving in to Republican pressure, or losing a game of chicken with Putin.

You know, the US has already bombed the Syrian army, working as the Daesh airforce, in Deir Ezzor. Officially that was an accident. "Friendly fire" against the main enemy or so.

Yep. And nobody announced it in the newspapers beforehand.

You forget that public statements have properties different from secret communication channels: Once you use them, it becomes much harder to step back, you are publicly committed to this

Yet another reason for Obama to use them to illustrate his objections to Republican pressure for Syrian war.

Conspirology. After the fact - when it became obvious that Obama was the chicken - this sounds reasonable.

And before the fact, when it was obvious to Obama (who has actually been in communication with Putin, remember) what the likely Putin response would be, it also sounded reasonable.

But it is not at all typical for Putin to do such things.

Yeah, it is. He's kind of famous for it, and of course Obama as well as his Republican enemies know that.
Mind, even if this had been out of character, Obama's Republican enemies were in communication with Putin as well. Putin's reaction probably surprised nobody.

And, again, the timing after the plutonium ultimatum. It makes no sense with your conspirology.

It makes no sense with your campaign tough guy motive either - almost nobody in the US general public was following the plutonium exchange.

But it makes sense for Obama to show himself as a tough guy after the ultimatum.

By setting himself up to lose a game of chicken? You think he's some kind of idiot?

Meanwhile: we have a different personality in the White House now - any speculations on how Trump would react to Putin making such announcements?

 

[Schmelzer]

Does watching Video evidence threaten you in some way? What are you so scared about?

LOL, scared. If there is text, I have more freedom to stop read and to think about it, to reread, as well as to skip some uninteresting absatz.

do you have and video evidence to support this propaganda?

I leave collecting videos to children.

And you think that caving in to Republican pressure would make Obama look tough?
or was it Clinton - already being accused of warmongering, and trying to present Trump as the scary threat to bomb people - who would look tough by being associated with either caving in to Republican pressure, or losing a game of chicken with Putin.

Sounds like you mingle something. I have argued here that Clinton is warmonger. I have not got much support here - this was obviously not relevant to most people here.

Yep. And nobody announced it in the newspapers beforehand.

Of course, announcing something before if one wants to sell it as an accident would not really make sense.

And before the fact, when it was obvious to Obama (who has actually been in communication with Putin, remember) what the likely Putin response would be, it also sounded reasonable.

You already need some presuppositions. Which are IMHO not very plausible. Because the plutonium ultimatum as well as the Russian reaction - completely open via the official briefing of the MO - were something new. Of course, that Russia has put S-400 at their Syrian airbase from the start of the whole action, probably as a defense against the horrible ISIS airforce, was also a clear enough message.
Again, if you have not got that point: Public announcements are, in comparison with secret diplomatic communication, a serious form of escalation.

It makes no sense with your campaign tough guy motive either - almost nobody in the US general public was following the plutonium exchange.

A lot of people around the world were following this.

By setting himself up to lose a game of chicken? You think he's some kind of idiot?

Of course I think he's some kind of idiot. Everybody agrees that fighting cold war against Russia and China at the same time, forcing them into an alliance, was the most stupid thing an American president can do in the actual situation.

Trump does not make this stupid error, wants to split Russia from Iran/China. I think it is too late, the Eurasian Silk Road project is attractive enough for Russia in the long run, and Putin is a long term player. So, I guess that focussing American aggression against Iran and China will not give much, but only improve the Eurasian alliance. With Russia under the main American pressure, Iran and China did support it, but they may nonetheless suspect that Russia would, in reality, prefer a union with the West, if it would be possible. Now Iran would need Russian support, and if Russia supports it, this will improve their alliance.

Meanwhile: we have a different personality in the White House now - any speculations on how Trump would react to Putin making such announcements?

No. No reason up to now.

 

[Quantum Quack]

LOL, scared. If there is text, I have more freedom to stop read and to think about it, to reread, as well as to skip some uninteresting absatz.

never heard of the pause tab?
scared you are....

I leave collecting videos to children.

and propaganda to adults like yourself... well done!

Sounds like you mingle something. I have argued here that Clinton is warmonger. I have not got much support here - this was obviously not relevant to most people here.

Nothing wrong with being a war monger as Putin's behavior suggests.

"When at war be at war, when at peace be at peace, only a fool is at peace when actually at war"

Are you scared of war?
Why?

btw on the TV tonight every indication of a popular uprising in Russia is looming.. and soon too I might add..
90% popularity his fake polls say...
You can't keep killing off the political opposition for ever you know.....

In situations like this you look more at the "inverse" so his popularity is more like 10%, that is the 10% that have control of the guns pointed at everyone elses heads.

I can see from the way you support him that you actually don't....be careful Putin's cronies are reading everything you type....and are not happy about paying for the download to view videos.

 

[Schmelzer]

never heard of the pause tab?

And then going back to reread the last phrase ... Uncomfortable.

Are you scared of war?

I don't like war. Scared? Not really, it is not easy to scare me.

btw on the TV tonight every indication of a popular uprising in Russia is looming.. and soon too I might add..

LOL.

 

[iceaura]

I have argued here that Clinton is warmonger. I have not got much support here - this was obviously not relevant to most people here.

It was standard issue boilerplate among the rightwingies around here (Dr Toad, for example) - but they're mostly Americans, with first hand experience in some of the other matters you post about, so they might want to keep a distance.

You already need some presuppositions. Which are IMHO not very plausible

The only presupposition I needed was that Obama is not an idiot - which was an assessment from eight years of observation, btw, not really speculation, but of course it involved information about American politics - so right on cue:

Of course I think he's some kind of idiot. Everybody agrees that fighting cold war against Russia and China at the same time, forcing them into an alliance, was the most stupid thing an American president can do in the actual situation.

"Everybody" has already forgotten about W&Cheney and the Republican Congress, (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...igned-the-iran-letter/?utm_term=.2098d91b102e) apparently - and here I was thinking that was just an amnesia problem among victims of rightwing American propaganda. But you could never be one of those, right?

"Meanwhile: we have a different personality in the White House now - any speculations on how Trump would react to Putin making such announcements?"
No. No reason up to now.

No reason. Can't think of a single reason.

Here's hoping Putin is farsighted enough you never have to find out. Because Putin is well advised to fix things so Trump feels like a winner, and that's not going to be easy - even with Bannon cooperating, and his kids in on the take.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Uncomfortable.

yes discovery of the objective reality can be a bit uncomfortable... true....for someone who can only stomach lies and deception....oh... and propaganda....

 

[joepistole]

Well that didn't take long. Week #3 Kellyanne Conway very publicly violated federal law by doing a commercial on Fox News for Ivanka Trump's product line. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...xperts-say/ar-AAmLCOB?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UP21DHP

 

[Schmelzer]

"Everybody" has already forgotten about W&Cheney and the Republican Congress, (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...igned-the-iran-letter/?utm_term=.2098d91b102e) apparently - and here I was thinking that was just an amnesia problem among victims of rightwing American propaganda. But you could never be one of those, right?

This makes not much sense. I see my "everybody" was too sloppy, this includes of course only people who have some understanding of the basics of geopolitics. That means, certainly not joepistole-like types. But also neither Obama/Clinton nor republican falcons.

What would be the point of presenting some republicans being even more stupid and hawkish that Obama? Looks like you think I'm on the side of republicans or so.

yes discovery of the objective reality can be a bit uncomfortable...

If discovery of reality is uncomfortable for you, my deepest condolences. I like it.

About the usefulness of videos: Of course, there are a lot of cases where videos are helpful. Say, videos from the battlefield give military specialists a lot of interesting information. Or some videos of "peaceful demonstrations" are also often very helpful. But speeches of politicians are usually only a waste of time. Sometimes they may be useful to identify lies, out of context quotes and distorted translations. So, if Western media quote Putin, it is better to check the original.

But there is a lot of knowledge where you need other sources of information. In science, videos are usually worthless - they can play a role in popular science at best. But the knowledge you have to extract from books and articles. Economics is also partially science - where videos are useless. Part of it are analytical articles, statistics and so on. In this case, videos are of no help too. And analytical articles are much more interesting in politics too. This is what I prefer, simply because I'm used to it, as a scientist.

If you want to degrade yourself to joepistole level of repeating nonsense, your choice.

 

[Kittamaru]

Give it up Schmelzer... nobody with two working brain cells is buying what you are trying to sell... for good reason, no less.

Reasons you have pointedly ignored, but the great thing about the truth is that your decision to ignore it doesn't stop it from being the truth

 

[joepistole]

This makes not much sense. I see my "everybody" was too sloppy, this includes of course only people who have some understanding of the basics of geopolitics. That means, certainly not joepistole-like types. But also neither Obama/Clinton nor republican falcons.

What would be the point of presenting some republicans being even more stupid and hawkish that Obama? Looks like you think I'm on the side of republicans or so.

If discovery of reality is uncomfortable for you, my deepest condolences. I like it.

About the usefulness of videos: Of course, there are a lot of cases where videos are helpful. Say, videos from the battlefield give military specialists a lot of interesting information. Or some videos of "peaceful demonstrations" are also often very helpful. But speeches of politicians are usually only a waste of time. Sometimes they may be useful to identify lies, out of context quotes and distorted translations. So, if Western media quote Putin, it is better to check the original.

But there is a lot of knowledge where you need other sources of information. In science, videos are usually worthless - they can play a role in popular science at best. But the knowledge you have to extract from books and articles. Economics is also partially science - where videos are useless. Part of it are analytical articles, statistics and so on. In this case, videos are of no help too. And analytical articles are much more interesting in politics too. This is what I prefer, simply because I'm used to it, as a scientist.

If you want to degrade yourself to joepistole level of repeating nonsense, your choice.

LOL...


Comrade are you afraid to confront me directly?


The fact is Comrade Schmelzer the information you get and promulgate from your beloved Mother Russia is false and you cannot support it with facts from credible sources and with reason. You have claimed to be a successful scientist; yet you eschew the scientific method. You don't see the two are mutually exclusive. That's a problem comrade, and that it's inconsistencies like that which make people think you are a wacko.

 

[Schmelzer]

Comrade are you afraid to confront me directly?

Afraid? It is simply boring.

 

[joepistole]

Afraid? It is simply boring.

You keep telling yourself that Comrade Schmelzer.

 

[iceaura]

What would be the point of presenting some republicans being even more stupid and hawkish that Obama? Looks like you think I'm on the side of republicans or so.

Every detail of your posted viewpoint on American politics is aligned - and even quoted from, linked to - the familiar propaganda efforts of their faction. The faction whose Congressional representation wrote that letter.

If you do not want to be on their side, that's an odd place to plant your flag.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Afraid? It is simply boring.

well you have been posting your stuff for ages here at sciforums and achieved virtually nothing in doing so... little wonder you are bored. Maybe post something of actual value and see how you feel?

 

[Tiassa]

Puti-Toots and the Poodle

#Puti-Poodle | #WhatTheyVotedFor​

​

The narrative, via Steve Benen↱:

As president, Trump has spoken to many more officials from around the world, and the calls appear to be getting worse. The amateur leader's recent call with the president of Mexico was a disaster. His chat with the Australian prime minister was worse. Politico reported yesterday that Trump “spent much of a recent phone call with French President Francois Hollande veering off into rants about the U.S. getting shaken down by other countries … creating an awkward interaction with a critical U.S. ally.”

And then, of course, there's Russia. This Reuters report↗ is getting a lot of attention today, and for good reason.

In his first call as president with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump denounced a treaty that caps U.S. and Russian deployment of nuclear warheads as a bad deal for the United States, according to two U.S. officials and one former U.S. official with knowledge of the call.

When Putin raised the possibility of extending the 2010 treaty, known as New START, Trump paused to ask his aides in an aside what the treaty was, these sources said.

Trump then told Putin the treaty was one of several bad deals negotiated by the Obama administration, saying that New START favored Russia. Trump also talked about his own popularity, the sources said.​

As is always the case with stories like these, the sourcing matters, and we don't know for sure who Reuters spoke to. The report hasn't been independently verified by NBC News or MSNBC.​

One thing worth considering is the idea of contrarianism. While candidate Trump did botch up his discussion of New START―referring to something called "Start-Up"―we might, like so many other things along the way, have somehow hoped this was mere theatrics and at some point, Mr. Trump would treat the idea of the presidency seriously. And, like so many other things along the way, there really isn't a point in bothering with those notions anymore. Mr. Benen summarizes:

And while it would be annoying if the new president adopted some kind of blanket “I'll be the opposite of Obama” posture, the Reuters report points in a more alarming direction. Consider this series of details:

1. Trump wasn't sure what the nuclear agreement with Russia was.
2. Trump was sure he didn't like the nuclear agreement with Russia.
3. Trump felt comfortable enough to start describing details of the agreement, which he got wrong.

When a politician does this during a debate or press conference, the impact is embarrassing, but most voters generally don't care. But when a president is talking to a foreign head of state―a foe of the United States―about nuclear weapons, and his efforts to pretend to know what he's talking about fail miserably, it's a more serious problem.

When it happens after that same president welcomes an “arms race,” it's a more terrifying problem.​

Policy incoherence actually does, sometimes, achieve a funny-threshold, but this is American nuclear policy in the hands of a clueless mobster wannabe who apparently managed to thoroughly botch up poodling for his sugar daddy.

You know why it's not funny?

Because it might well be real.

Remember that "truth is stranger than fiction" because, as the axiom continues, fiction is generally obliged to make a certain amount of sense.
____________________

Notes:

Benen, Steve. "New questions surround Trump’s conversation with Putin". msnbc. 9 February 2017. msnbc.com. 9 February 2017. http://on.msnbc.com/2lwgcc8

Landay, Jonathan and David Rohde. "In call with Putin, Trump denounced Obama-era nuclear arms treaty - sources". Reuters. 9 February 2017. Reuters.com. 9 February 2017. http://reut.rs/2k98zH0

 

[Quantum Quack]

Policy incoherence actually does, sometimes, achieve a funny-threshold, but this is American nuclear policy in the hands of a clueless mobster wannabe who apparently managed to thorougbly botch up poodling for his sugar daddy.

You know why it's not funny?

Because it might well be real.

Remember that "truth is stranger than fiction" because, as the axiom continues, fiction is generally obliged to make a certain amount of sense.

IMO - Over view

Most of the hostility between the USA and Russia is paranoia based. The notion of nuclear war, empire building etc has run it's course years ago and now we are more involved in winding down from fear based relationships and slowly evolving to a more sustainable position.
The above doesn't down play the risks that Trump is forcing upon the world however his actions emphasis the absurdity of waving nukes around as some sort of display of sovereign macho.

Putin probably went into the conversation expecting to deal with a deadly serious issue which Trumps ad hoc amateurism and plain incompetence just turned into a serious and sad joke.

So expecting a chest thumping, collar grabbing, head butting episode of international diplomacy Putin got what?

A joke....

Now Putin probably thinks well "How can I capitalize on Trumps incompetence?" and realizes that to do so publicly declares his global ambitions and intentions. But that won't do, he has to do it surreptitiously, clandestinely, under the table, so as not to upset the Russian public, but the table is no longer there, the other side, the Trumphonium incompetent side, has thus forced Putin's hand.. Do it man! Do it! but of course he can't.

The pressure to act only exist if there is an opposing pressure...and Trump by virtue of his ignorance offers no tangible opposing pressure....

Of course the USA military and intelligence services are on a highly defensive status but the possibility of USA offensive/proactive action, action that requires sound leadership, is at the moment as much a "joke" as Trump is.

A Homerism : Success by virtue of incompetance ~ Homer Simpson in the animated sit com "The Simpsons"

 

[Quantum Quack]

I also wonder as test of word leadership what Putin's thoughts are on the serious humanitarian disaster unfoldng in Yemen, (Word has it up to 12 million people are currently starving to death.)
What is Putin going to do about it?
What is Trump going to do about it?
What can the humanitarian exhausted world do about it?

Probably nothing... not even send in clean up teams once the wailing stops...

Except perhaps build alt -right "justifiable" walls to prevent asylum seeking...by sea or land