The Trump Presidency

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Quantum Quack said:
Maybe you can explain why the 2nd amendment, if not for paranoia?
reread the tweets in question and look at the first line:
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..and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!

Pretty straight forward Trump playing with redneck paranoia ...and a call to arms..
I guess you will say that he didn't mean it?
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What's paranoid about the right to life, which entails the means to protect it? In most the world, police are not on every street corner, and the adage is true: when seconds count, the police are minutes away. That's not paranoia, that's accepting that human nature will make some people try to take advantage of and harm others.
Yes, most Democrat politicians nowadays want to remove gun rights, if not explicitly state that they want to repeal the Second Amendment. The right to self-defense is not a call to arms. That is your own paranoid fantasy.
 
Vociferous said:
That's not paranoia, that's accepting that human nature will make some people try to take advantage of and harm others.
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That might sound reasonable if it came from a political faction that wasn't arming white people only, militarizing the police against black people, and disarming - even killing - black and red and brown people who attempt to defend themselves.

As it is, we have Trump's record of response to black people who attempt to arm and defend themselves - and the white people who defend them, even without arms. We also have the record of Trump's supporters in that matter.

So we can see where all this "self defense" paranoia is coming from.
Vociferous said:
The right to self-defense is not a call to arms.
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Trump's repeated call to arms is a call to arms.
 
iceaura said:
That might sound reasonable if it came from a political faction that wasn't arming white people only, militarizing the police against black people, and disarming - even killing - black and red and brown people who attempt to defend themselves.
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Blatant lies. Republicans encourage blacks, gays, transgenders, or anyone else who needs to defend themselves to legal own and carry a gun. Blacks to keep from being killed by other blacks (their leading cause of black murders), gays and trans for fear of hate crimes, women to protect against rape. You're so ignorant you can't even see the reality from where you sit.
 
Vociferous said:
Blatant lies. Republicans encourage blacks, gays, transgenders, or anyone else who needs to defend themselves to legal own and carry a gun. Blacks to keep from being killed by other blacks (their leading cause of black murders), gays and trans for fear of hate crimes, women to protect against rape. You're so ignorant you can't even see the reality from where you sit.
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I presume they're allowed to kill police who try to take their guns away too, right? Are blacks allowed to play that trick when they're assailed by rogue white officers violating their rights?
 
CptBork said:
I presume they're allowed to kill police who try to take their guns away too, right? Are blacks allowed to play that trick when they're assailed by rogue white officers violating their rights?
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No, it is not legal nor advisable to resist the police. Trying to resist using force can get you killed. No one is allowed to resist arrest using force.
And when rights are violated, other cops need to intervene, bystanders need to call 911 for a supervisor on the scene, etc..
 
Vociferous said:
No, it is not legal nor advisable to resist the police. Trying to resist using force can get you killed. No one is allowed to resist arrest using force.
And when rights are violated, other cops need to intervene, bystanders need to call 911 for a supervisor on the scene, etc..
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So if the police come to someone's house to confiscate their guns, they should absolutely comply in full without any resistance under all conditions, correct?
 
Vociferous said:
No, the chaos in the streets is Democrat majors and governors refusing to keep the peace. The economy is a short-lived dip due to natural disaster, not an ongoing systemic recession. Unemployment rates that where previously at historical highs, especially for minorities, and will be why unemployment will recover. Largely Democrat public corruption. And an epidemic that has basically run the same course, regardless of mediating measures (except where they did more harm than good...all promoted by Democrats). What an outlook. To pin all your hopes on America failing.
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America is a failed state. Full stop. It now competes with an undeveloped country, Brazil, for most coronavirus deaths in the world. MAGA!

upload_2020-6-20_3-38-52.jpeg
 
Vociferous said:
Blacks to keep from being killed by other blacks (their leading cause of black murders)
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The vast majority of murders are intraracial. Whites mostly murder whites, blacks mostly murder blacks, Latinos most murder Latinos. So your observation is pretty meaningless. I understand why it’s done though which is to deflect attention away from cops killing black people and getting away with it. You’re not fooling anyone but yourself.
 
Vociferous said:
Republicans encourage blacks, gays, transgenders, or anyone else who needs to defend themselves to legal own and carry a gun.
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No, they don't.

Republican police routinely kill black people who display firearms, for example, without the slightest attempt to verify their legality - they even kill black people whom they fear might be armed, and openly claim that fear as a justification. They do that all over the US, and have been doing it for decades. They do it in my neighboring cities.

Republican authorities in my region also discriminated for many decades - my entire adult life and more - against black people, brown people, and red people, in the issuance of carry permits. And they still do, despite the new "shall issue" provisions of the law they wrote themselves - that's in addition to killing the ones they fear might have armed themselves anyway.
 
CptBork said:
So if the police come to someone's house to confiscate their guns, they should absolutely comply in full without any resistance under all conditions, correct?
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I said that it was not legal nor advisable, not that it was absolutely unavoidable in all situations.


douwd20 said:
America is a failed state. Full stop. It now competes with an undeveloped country, Brazil, for most coronavirus deaths in the world. MAGA!

View attachment 3478
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First, your graph shows "cases", not "deaths". So you either can't read your own source or you're lying.
Reported Covid cases are also a factor of the number of tests administered. So you're graph means very little. On the other hand:
Capture.png

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/worldwide-graphs/#europe-usa-deaths

So when you compare actual outcomes (deaths), the EU is the failed state...my your own metric.

douwd20 said:
The vast majority of murders are intraracial. Whites mostly murder whites, blacks mostly murder blacks, Latinos most murder Latinos. So your observation is pretty meaningless. I understand why it’s done though which is to deflect attention away from cops killing black people and getting away with it. You’re not fooling anyone but yourself.
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Who said otherwise? I also said that police kill more unarmed whites than blacks, even though they have more interactions with black criminals, as a proportion of their population. Again, where are cops getting away with unjustified killings? All the latest incidents have been charged. You're being duped by race-baiters.
 
Vociferous said:
First, your graph shows "cases", not "deaths". So you either can't read your own source or you're lying.
Reported Covid cases are also a factor of the number of tests administered. So you're graph means very little. On the other hand:
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fascinating word play....a politician in the making perhaps?
The graph provided was not direct evidence to support the claim made but was ancillary...
 
Quantum Quack said:
fascinating word play....a politician in the making perhaps?
The graph provided was not direct evidence to support the claim made but was ancillary...
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I guess you missed where I showed facts that directly refuted the claim he made (More EU deaths from Covid than US). Ancillary or not, it did not support his claim, because his claim was flat out wrong.
 
but
then again
there are over twice as many people in europe than in the united states
so..........................................................
 
Vociferous said:
I said that it was not legal nor advisable, not that it was absolutely unavoidable in all situations.
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But if someone shoots a cop for trying to confiscate their weapons, they deserve to be convicted of a felony crime no matter what excuse they had for resisting, correct? And people deserve to be charged even if they only make vague threats about it, since threatening violence is itself a crime yes?
 
Bizarre!!
Trump says he ordered a slow down in coronavirus testing because it was adding to the number of cases...
US President Donald Trump says he ordered authorities to slow down the rate of coronavirus testing because it was adding to the number of COVID-19 infections being recorded.
Mr Trump was speaking at a re-election rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, pressing ahead with the gathering despite it being revealed that six campaign workers who helped set it up had tested positive for the virus.

The US is the world's worst-hit country, recording more than 2.3 million COVID-19 cases during the outbreak that has so far killed nearly 120,000 Americans and put 40 million more out of work.

Mr Trump described testing as a "double-edged sword", saying: "When you do testing to that extent you're going to find more people."

"You're going to find more cases, so I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down please.'​

It is incredible that in the 21st century this sort of idiocy is found and what is worse, accepted.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...ordered-slowdown-coronavirus-testing/12377556
 
Vociferous said:
The combined death count in those 16 European countries (about 121,000) remains higher than in the U.S. (about 117,000).
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Unlike the countries with First World health care systems as commonly found in Europe, the US does not have reliable statistics in that matter. The best estimate of actual US deaths directly caused by the coronavirus (so omitting the ancillary deaths and maims and hardships caused by the virus's crippling of US medical care delivery systems) is over 130k and still rising faster than general Europe's - and that is after the US got a late start.
Vociferous said:
Again, where are cops getting away with unjustified killings?
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Baltimore, LA, Texas, New York, Florida, Arizona, Missouri, etc. They appear to be correlated with the lynchings of the early and mid 20th Century - commonly reported from the same geographic and demographic areas. https://www.epi.org/blog/black-deat...-to-1950-have-more-officer-involved-killings/
Using county-level data on historical lynchings and present-day officer-involved shootings, Figure A shows that historical lynchings are positively associated with officer-involved shootings for Blacks. That is, counties that experienced a higher number of historical lynchings have larger shares of officer-involved shootings of Blacks in the last five years.
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Essentially: everywhere they don't get caught on camera, and a good share of the places they do. In Saint Paul, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile
There's even a country&western song about it, adapted from an Australian song about wandering, with the singer taking on the point of view of Death by Police Violence: https://www.last.fm/music/Hank+Snow/_/I've+Been+Everywhere

Or do you think the cops never did this stuff until there were cell phone cameras nearby?

That's like thinking Trump is an aberration in the Republican Party, something we've never seen before.
 
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