The Trouble With Islam

...it would be a little hard to conclude that Christianity is meant to be violent.
Which would you prefer...to be punished here on earth, along with your children "to the third and fourth generation"...

OR, spend an eternity in hell?

Neither is less violent.

As they say in the real estate business, its simply a matter of location, location, location!
 
Which would you prefer...to be punished here on earth, along with your children "to the third and fourth generation"...

OR, spend an eternity in hell?

Neither is less violent.

As they say in the real estate business, its simply a matter of location, location, location!
That may be a point BUT...

If one were to consider there are no Gods. Then it becomes quite evident that "OR, spend an eternity in hell?" is MUSH better for society. In this way society is allowed to progress forward. If instead we take the literal interpretation of some fairytale book (for example: just imagine say Book of Mormon) then society stagnates and regresses. Sound like any place you know of? Oh I don't know KSA, Pakistan, Iran, etc.. ... .. .. ..

THAT'S the whole point
 
Which would you prefer...to be punished here on earth, along with your children "to the third and fourth generation"...

OR, spend an eternity in hell?

Neither is less violent.

As they say in the real estate business, its simply a matter of location, location, location!

I must agree with Micheal and Geoff here. The old "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "vengence is mine" is better than punishment here. If there is an allah who can deal out the most horrible of punishments why the need to kill apostates here? After all they "got theirs coming"!
 
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If there is an allah who can deal out the most horrible of punishments why the need to kill apostates here they "got theirs coming"?

Because it's easier to use God as an excuse to vent your internal prejudices/hatred/hangups.:(
 
Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Gregory Davis.. producer of the feature documentary:
Islam: What the West Needs to Know.

[...]
The facile way in which politicians, commentators, and academics dismiss Islam as a 'religion of peace' indicated to us that there was more that needed to be said on the topic. The Muslim terrorists claim to be doing the will of Allah, while Western leaders insist that Islam is peaceful. The obvious question was: who is right? There is no a priori justification to assume that peaceful Muslims represent authentic Islam while violent Muslims do not.

FP: How would you interpret the West's illusions about Islam?

Davis: The West is guilty of the ages-old error of projection, of imposing its own ideas, beliefs, and aspirations onto the other guy. When Westerners approach Islam, they imagine that it is a religion like others that they are familiar with - like, say, Christianity. They see Islam as basically another item on the religious menu available in an integrated world.
What they FAIL to understand, however, is that Islam is decidedly outside the Western tradition and therefore Western assumptions are inapt when assessing it.[...]the most important aspect of Islam not understood in the West is that Islam is less a personal faith than a social and Political Plan for organizing humanity - really, a system of Government.
[...]
FP: The Islamization of Europe is occurring at a lightning speed. What do you make of it?

Davis: It is truly astonishing that a civilization as organized and materially powerful as Europe today is voluntarily going to its death. The Europeans could certainly forestall the Islamization of their continent, but so far they have shown no stomach for it. Already portions of Europe's metropolitan areas are de facto Islamic states ruled by Sharia law - the London Telegraph mentioned this the other day with remarkable equanimity. The Parisian police have admitted that they are in the early stages of a civil war. The negative growth rates of the native Caucasian populations mean that Europe is committing generational suicide while its Muslim populations continue to grow very rapidly. While Muslims in Europe are still poorly organized and outside the conventional halls of power, they nonetheless posses something invaluable that Europe does not: faith. Europe has lost its faith and with it the will for self-preservation....It is a tragedy on a civilizational scale and should be a cautionary tale for those of us in North America.
[....]
Democracy implies some sort of pluralism, which is the very antithesis of a Sharia state. Installing genuine democracy would first require a program of de-Islamization, which would be simply impossible.
The only means of achieving a form of secularism in an Islamic country is through the sort of repression we see today in Egypt, Pakistan, even Turkey.
In Islam, there can be no freedom of religion, freedom of speech, equality of the sexes, or anything that transgresses the highly specific dictates of Sharia law. Any kind of popular movement by Muslims is by nature away from secular, genuinely democratic principles and toward a theocratic, Sharia state.
[....]
Islam and its faithful adherents are trying to Undermine our secular governments with the ultimate aim of replacing them with Sharia.
Terrorism is a means to this end as are Islamic proselytizing, fund-raising, lobbying, education, etc. As during the Cold War, we are under attack from a hostile political ideology that does not operate in the same moral universe as we do. Broadly speaking, we need to develop a program of containment that will operate on all levels of government policy.
[....]
With respect to Iraq, the main problem there was and is our fundamental Misunderstanding of the nature of Islam. There was good reason that someone as brutal as Saddam Hussein rose to the top in that society. In the Islamic world, the most powerful force is not some universal desire for human freedom but the will of Allah and the example of Muhammad. Until we grasp this overarching fact, our policy toward Iraq and the rest of the Muslim world will be fundamentally flawed.
[...]
Encouraging democratic or popular forces in the Islamic world is to encourage the resurgence of orthodox Islam with all that entails, namely, Sharia and jihad. Rather than democratizing the Muslim world we should be seeking to Secularize it. Contrary to the Western experience, democratization and secularization are not at all synonymous in an Islamic context.
[...]
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={AA691EB6-8EF1-4FEB-9CD2-87D0AB60D7D6}

(Board note 1: Having trouble with Link- am working on it)
 
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Why? The NT is based on the OT, so disregarding the OT means to disregard the NT as well. Or, are you guys out with a new Bible?

Define "based on". This is a very, very loose phrase. What do you refer to?

He also said, "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword." Matthew 10:34.

Excepting, of course, that the passage refers to the tumult apprised by the formation of the Christian faith; it isn't meant to imply war, and there is not a single realistic reading anywhere that so interprets it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_10:34

The NT is a censored version of the OT, so to speak.

Amusing. How is this? :)

Any Christian who doesn't follow the OT has no basis in following the NT, because both are inextricably intertwined.

Ah, you recall perhaps the part where Jesus says "turn the other cheek" and tells the crowd that the one among them without sin should cast the first stone. "Swords into ploughshares". Peace, and all that? In fact, it's clear he rejects most everything except "the Law", which Matthew indicates is the Ten Commandments.

The NT is based off the OT, and this website shows massive similarities through direct quotation.

http://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/NTChart.htm

Ah, I had a look through it and it really isn't that similar. Very circumstantial.
 
wow deep thought and gustav u guys are right into a deep conversation there
and nova i doubt if i have ever heard a more sensible approach in life such simple words but true
this is my little added peice of say in this topic
a blind man sees more than some people and they never say a word against any religeon yet us that see never stop having a say whether it be islam or the rest of the world
none can be more contempt with just life than a child in a mothers arms
if religeon dont hurt no one then why not we have learned from past history that mistakes were made abusing their authority to cover the mistakes never works
but its never too late to change never lose sight of the real love and that child in its mums arms is what we have forgotten
 
abu_afak are you stupid were you dropped on your head as a child islam dos not promote violence if you read the koran it actuaally denounces violence the muslims who do commit acts of violnce are like the christians who commit acts of violence it is wrong to generalize a whole religion i don't go around saying all christians/catholics are intolerant bastards because of random acts of violence that particular faith has commited through out the years muslims are on the same religious tree as christianity and judaism just like your beliefs promote peace so do theirs and jsut for your info when the crusades were happening muslims were seen as liborators under the cruel tyrannical rule of the christian government so be careful before you generalize it can be dangerous. the taliban is jsut a group of insane people that happen to be muslims and the whole muslim faith does not need to be chastised for it i bet you if a group of christians did something along the same lines as the taliban or al'qaida and people starting lumping you with those christians the whole faith would be up in arms about it you damn retard
 
abu_afak have you actually sat down and talked to a devout muslim the same thing could be said about christianity with the crusades where they killed many jews muslims and even other christians and the witch hunts where they actually burned pagans at the stake islam is a religion of peace just as christianity claims to be and if you actually read the bible you would see more violence in it then you would the koran
 
Moderator's Note Please do not refer to other members as "retard" or start flame wars. Such behavior will have you banned before you even get the opportunity to post.
 
"damn retard". LOL. I love the punctuation.

Actually, devilriver, there really does seem to be more call to violence in the Quran, and not primarily described as a historical event. I recommend reading the Quran, and Sura 9 in particular (also 2, 4 and 5). The collected commentaries of al Buhkari would also be useful. I hope more individual muslims reject these areas, of course; but there is a strong prosetylitic supremacist strain to the Quran. One may find the same in the Bible (OT particularly) but not to the same extent; moreover, it isn't being practiced in the common era to the same extent, which is kind of the issue.
 
talk to a muslim talk a muslim imam and they will tell you the religion is not based on violence if you read the bible it has excesssive amounts of violence but what doesn't now a days but you can't judge a faith based on a small group of people thats like me saying that all christians want to get rid of every other religion
 
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