The Trouble With Islam

abu_afak

Banned
Banned
The Trouble With Islam
Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.

BY TAWFIK HAMID
April 3, 2007
Wall Street Journal

Not many years ago the brilliant Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, published a short history of the Islamic world's decline, entitled "What Went Wrong?" Astonishingly, there was, among many Western "progressives," a vocal dislike for the title. It is a false premise, these critics protested. They ignored Mr. Lewis's implicit statement that things have been, or could be, right.

But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world.
Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies.
Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam.
Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq.
Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom.
One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.

These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation of a disease and not the disease itself. But the root-causes are quite different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya, a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology can transform a young, benevolent mind into that of a terrorist. Without confronting the ideological roots of radical Islam it will be impossible to combat it. While there are many ideological "rootlets" of Islamism, the main tap root has a name--Salafism, or Salafi Islam, a violent, ultra-conservative version of the religion.

It is vital to grasp that traditional and even Mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence.
Shariah, for example, allows Apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them, seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the Jews before the "end of days."
The near deafening silence of the Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough that there is something fundamentally wrong.

The grave predicament We face in the Islamic world is the virtual lack of approved, theologically rigorous interpretations of Islam that clearly challenge the abusive aspects of Shariah. Unlike Salafism, more liberal branches of Islam, such as Sufism, typically do not provide the essential theological base to nullify the cruel proclamations of their Salafist counterparts. And so, for more than 20 years I have been developing and working to establish a theologically-rigorous Islam that teaches peace.

Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel.

[...]
The rest: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009890
 
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It is vital to grasp that traditional and even Mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence.


What the Bible says about Non-Christians

They are without God.

"Whosoever ... abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God." -- 2 John 9

They are all antichrists.

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." -- 2 John 7

They should be shunned. Neither marry nor be friends with them.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17

They should be killed.

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10
 
Gustav: doth the Christians these things? Hath they legal recourse to them? Is the death of unbelievers commanded in their laws? Verily, it would be frigging news to me.

*waits patiently for thread spam attack*
 
Gustav: doth the Christians these things? Hath they legal recourse to them? Is the death of unbelievers commanded in their laws? Verily, it would be frigging news to me.
Not 'news', but certainly part of Christian history.
 
What the Bible says about Non-Christians

They are without God.

"Whosoever ... abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God." -- 2 John 9

They are all antichrists.

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." -- 2 John 7

They should be shunned. Neither marry nor be friends with them.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17

They should be killed.

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

Interesting how you switch to a quote from the Old Testament in your last Bible passage quote.

As we Christians know we are not called on to kill anyone. Jesus established the law of grace and we have grace to all mankind, enemies included.

As for the rest of your quotes, yes they are Christian but none of them call for the killing of anyone.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
As we Christians know we are not called on to kill anyone.
Not neccessary...the new testament often consigns most of humanity to the "fire that shall never be quenched".

There is no hell in the old testament...so divine wrath had to be more immediate.
 
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Not neccessary...the new testament often consigns most of humanity to the "fire that shall never be quenched".

Yes, But this again is not a call on Christians to kill anyone. This happens after one has already died and after the final judgement, Also this will be carried out by angels carrying out the command of God, not men.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Gustav: doth the Christians these things? Hath they legal recourse to them? Is the death of unbelievers commanded in their laws? Verily, it would be frigging news to me.

*waits patiently for thread spam attack*

first
we atheists keep a tight leash on the deluded

second
it is the principles of secular humanism that define the rule of law

third
transgressions will be punished in this lifetime

fourth
a systematic onslaught on blind faith has reduced numbers

yet
what good is a christian that does not abide by the strictures of the religion?

hmm
no good

to continued
 
What the Bible says about Non-Christians

They are without God.

"Whosoever ... abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God." -- 2 John 9

They are all antichrists.

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." -- 2 John 7

They should be shunned. Neither marry nor be friends with them.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17

They should be killed.

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

You were doing fine until your final quote which was part of the law given to the Jews in Moses' time. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christians - they are not governed by the old Jewish law and they are NOT commanded to kill anyone for any reason!

It's only those like yourself that cannot distinguish between the Old and New Testaments that are confused by things like that. The old "eye for an eye" is another thing that is no longer commanded - in fact, it was replaced by "turn the other cheek. That's something you will not find in any form in the Old Testament.
 
It is vital to grasp that traditional and even Mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence.

abu_afak,

Wars caused by Western nations in the 20th century alone have killed more humans than the entire history of Islamic jurisprudence.
 


Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel.



The way I see it here in Canada is that often a harsh criticism of Islam is perceived by the politically correct crowd as a form of racism against muslims since the vast majority are non-caucasian.
 
pardon
i had no idea

i am somewhat illiterate
biblically and otherwise

there was no intent to deceive

So i guess you just did a cut and paste job from an anti-Christian web site in the hope that you would come across as well read person with perception and wisdom? (That’s a form of deception isn't it)


While there may have been no intent on your part to deceive, if you are yourself deceived then taking the information from your deceiver and pasting it here as your own makes you a deceiver also.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
It's only those like yourself that cannot distinguish between the Old and New Testaments that are confused by things like that. The old "eye for an eye" is another thing that is no longer commanded - in fact, it was replaced by "turn the other cheek. That's something you will not find in any form in the Old Testament.

Except that there are many people who profess to be Christians who have trouble distinguishing between the two or who are selective about what they accept and what they don't from the Old Testament.
 
The way I see it here in Canada is that often a harsh criticism of Islam is perceived by the politically correct crowd as a form of racism against muslims since the vast majority are non-caucasian.

From where I sit in the US it often is thinly veiled racism. For example, the attacks on Sikhs after 9/11 because they wore turbans and looked middle eastern.
 
From where I sit in the US it often is thinly veiled racism. For example, the attacks on Sikhs after 9/11 because they wore turbans and looked middle eastern.

True.
Rascism can be a factor but not in all cases where someone is doing the criticism...but...it is still usually preceived as such by many people.
 
Pandering to extremists because you are afraid of them leads to empowerment of the extremists. Extremists live on fear, but only die when fought.
 
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