What was GP-B measuring?
The Relativity of Time
- Thread starter Nightshift
- Start date
What was GP-B measuring?
That's likely because you have not examined and understand time as it exists empirically as extensively, or methodically, as I have. When you understand that existence and the dynamics, the meaning of space and time are an axiom (in that empirical context). That's not meant to insult, its just an observation, I see too many ethereal and emotional arguments with too little understanding of empirical mechanics (what can be observed and verified experimentally).
Exactly what it was designed to.
Beyond your capabilities....Thought so.
It was measuring the real gravitational curvature of real space/time, caused by a real Earth, and also the real Lense Thirring effect, caused by the real Earth's rotation....In other words, measuring something that reacts in the presence of real mass......
And without that real space/time, or if you prefer space and time, we would have no Universe.
Beyond your understanding...Grok'd!
So..., paddoboy, did the instrumentation measures those different aspects of Gravity 74 years, 3 months, 11 days in the Future or did it measure the aspects of Gravity around Cygnus X-1?
No, paddoboy!
It measured the predicted effects of Gravity ONLY in what is commonly referred to as "realtime" - and ONLY within the operational vicinity of its instrumentation!
Local space - current time!
BTW - Can you possibly Grok paddoboy, that the Universe existed LONG BEFORE human beings evolved into existence and invented the Concepts of either "space" or "time"!
And, needless to say - but the Universe will most likely remain in existence well after any vestiges of Humanity have been lost!
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Due to the utter confusion created by dmoe, the following GP-B link may help those interested........
http://einstein.stanford.edu/
http://einstein.stanford.edu/
Yeah of course, but we weren't as smart then either.....
Let's take a trip down memory lane, just you and me......
More then 2000 years ago, we thought the Earth was flat, and we were the center of the Universe......
We gave no thought to the possibility of other galaxies.....we thought lots and lots of silly things.
Now, what in fu$#@&$ hell does that have to do with us now realizing space and time, as well as gravity, matter and energy are all real?
Are you on drugs or something?
GP-B cost an estimated $750,000,000. Was it worth it? Sure it was. It confirmed to even great precision rates the predictions of probably the greatest theory of the 20th Century....
I'll throw in SR and the BB also.
Why?
I have no idea who these "we" are that you speak of! I personally did not think anything 2000 years ago!
Read it! English is easy to understand! But...you have to read it!
Another "Strawman" or just the usual Ad Hominem and personal insult?
BTW, I added 4-words to my Post #205, just for you, paddoboy!
Oh I have read it.....
Again for all and sundry, space, time, space/time, gravity matter/energy are all realities in the field of cosmology.......
One [anyone depends on the other for its existence]
The BB was/is a theory of Universal evolution of space and time, from a singularity of which we know sweet fuck all [as with all singularities]
It is not a theory of the origin of the Universe per se.
When you have digested the above, come back for your next lesson.
The rest of your post is just the usual silliness, which I'm sure all recognise.
Nice appropriate handle you have btw....just thought its about time I told you that.
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Can I now make an observation, and like your's, not meant to be insulting. You say you have examined time methodically, and understood it? Is it possible that you are applying to much philosophy to time?
I mean, in my own way, I see time as that which stops everything from happening together...It exists in all models of the Universe that I know of, even a static Universe....When the Universe in a couple of hundred trillion years is just a heap of photons and energy stretched upon the near infinite scale of space. But even in that scenario, time will still exist.
I do not accept the argument that if no one is around to measure it, it does not exist.
My other point is what evolved from t=10-43 seconds after the BB? space and time, correct?
Space and time in my simplistic view, are the foundation stone of the universe...If either did not exist, neither would anything else.
Occams razor?
Now please treat me gently with your replies...like a virgin if you will.....I'm only a poor little old layman.
ps: I suppose the best I would be able to relent to, is that the proper definition and reality of time is still open to debate.
I have seen plenty of reputable material, each supporting opposing views.
"I do not accept the argument that if no one is around to measure it, it does not exist."
Nothing exists until you look at it; just looking at something is an observational measurement in itself. Until something has transferred its energy to you it can't affect you in your little place in the universe, thus you are none-the-wiser - and so it doesn't exist. The quantum world backs this up as particles only appear to come into existence once the probability wave has collapsed at the instant an observation takes place.
If time came before energy, then how could time be measured? Because to measure time requires energy, there's no denying that. And if it's impossible to measure time without energy then time can't exist first. Same goes for length - no mass or energy = nothing to measure and no value for length. Time is a way of measuring and comparing mass and energy changing in our universe, nothing more, nothing less.
Nothing exists until you look at it; just looking at something is an observational measurement in itself. Until something has transferred its energy to you it can't affect you in your little place in the universe, thus you are none-the-wiser - and so it doesn't exist. The quantum world backs this up as particles only appear to come into existence once the probability wave has collapsed at the instant an observation takes place.
If time came before energy, then how could time be measured? Because to measure time requires energy, there's no denying that. And if it's impossible to measure time without energy then time can't exist first. Same goes for length - no mass or energy = nothing to measure and no value for length. Time is a way of measuring and comparing mass and energy changing in our universe, nothing more, nothing less.
The quantum world acts differently from the micro world.
The BB states space and time evolved...There was always an energy associated with space/time...Some called it the superforce...others whatever was the energy to make the BB go bang [or start expansion]...ZPE is another facet of space/time.
Are you pointing out that : prior to "t=10-43 seconds after the BB" - "space and time" did not exist ?
Are you pointing out that : "space and time" began to "evolve" at "t=10-43 seconds after the BB" ?
Oh...okay...so, nothing existed prior to "t=10-43 seconds after the BB" ? No "space" - No 'time" - nothing.
Believe it or not, paddoboy, because I cannot, honestly, believe it, when I tell you this : I have learned a valuable, insightful fact from you!
Thank you, paddoboy, for the lesson. Maybe I should learn to learn from you more often! I cannot, honestly, believe that!
Once again, your confusion is noted.
As has been told to you a 100 times [you better check into that...your style you know
] from t=0 to t=10-43 seconds, we don't know what existed and in what state....I like to "speculate" that it was still space and time but as we "don't know them" ....Believe it or not dmoe, I can honestly say I have learnt sweet f$#% all from you.....except how to be one boring schmuck!
Typically developmental psychologists predict that this concept (objects only exist when observed) ceases to be present in children older than 2 years old.
Once again, your confusion is noted.
As has been told to you a 100 times [you better check into that...your style you know
Believe it or not dmoe, I can honestly say I have learnt sweet f$#% all from you.....except how to be one boring schmuck!
???!!!
So, the following - that you Posted in Post #212 :
Is it true or not?
Were you just kidding or something? Should I, as you so eloquently phrased it, "have learnt sweet f$#% all from" your Post #212 ?
paddoboy, if you are, "one boring schmuck" - you did not "learnt" it from me.
There both true and correct dmoe, as any schmuck would see......
But let me take you by the hand again......
The first post says ....
From the BB [t=0] to the first Planck instant [t=10-43 sec.] we don't know...It's where the Singularity is....
But I/me/your's truly speculate that it was space and time in a sort of quantum phase that as yet we have no Idea about.
So logically as any schmuck can see, we can only say with any confidence that space and time [plus whatever inherent Imputus/energy that caused it to start expanding, evolved from 10-43 seconds.
The second post merely confirms the first with less [God forbid!!!!] detail.
Now all that being in different words then what I first said, may make it harder to understand, but if you try hard enough, read slowly, you will see it is the same thing......
Just me I suppose, like all them rogue scientists, lazy and unthinking
So again in essence dmoe, what we can say is that the BB was not a theory of the origin of the Universe/space/time, but a theory of an evolution of space/time/Universe from the first Planck instant.
Before that, remains a mystery.
There both true and correct dmoe, as any schmuck would see......
But let me take you by the hand again......
The first post says ....
From the BB [t=0] to the first Planck instant [t=10-43 sec.] we don't know...It's where the Singularity is....
But I/me/your's truly speculate that it was space and time in a sort of quantum phase that as yet we have no Idea about.
So logically as any schmuck can see, we can only say with any confidence that space and time [plus whatever inherent Imputus/energy that caused it to start expanding, evolved from 10-43 seconds.
The second post merely confirms the first with less [God forbid!!!!] detail.
Now all that being in different words then what I first said, may make it harder to understand, but if you try hard enough, read slowly, you will see it is the same thing......
Just me I suppose, like all them rogue scientists, lazy and unthinking
So again in essence dmoe, what we can say is that the BB was not a theory of the origin of the Universe/space/time, but a theory of an evolution of space/time/Universe from the first Planck instant.
Before that, remains a mystery.
Okay, that is what you said earlier. If I accept it, are you going to respond to me, again, like this :
Once again, your confusion is noted.
As has been told to you a 100 times [you better check into that...your style you know
Believe it or not dmoe, I can honestly say I have learnt sweet f$#% all from you.....except how to be one boring schmuck!
Is that how you speak to "pupils" that accept the benefit of your knowledge? My college Professors never treated me like that!